Suggestion to DBG for SK epic, Mangler server

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Vashazir, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Vashazir New Member

    I'd suggest the dev to make Duriek Bloodpool and Lhranc to insta-spawn on new picks, this way the SK epic would be available to complete for people in the 3 months Kunark expansion.
  2. Dythan Augur

    Oh ffs, just spawn lv 1s with their epic on the next server.
  3. Scruff Elder

    i don't understand this outlook and i'd like it if you elaborated on why you think random variance respawn timegating is in any way acceptable in a server with three-month content blips

    i've actually completed the SK epic on mangler and i'd be totally on board for trivializing the respawn of duriek and lhranc - dealing with unknown 24+ hour windows that are entirely dominated by autoclickers is an experience that noone should have to sit through. i was lucky enough to complete mine alongside other guild members before the clicker epidemic caught up to us, but it's currently a shitshow at both of the aforementioned quest handins (with nothing being done about it - i doubt it can even be tracked)

    it's been parroted around a lot already, but there really is nothing epic about sitting and staring at a floor for 10+ hours at a time for something as hilariously mediocre as the shadow knight 1.0. i don't feel accomplished for having completed it, i'm only appreciative that the entire thing is over and behind me
  4. suineg Lorekeeper

    I would suggest that they change nothing and if you don't want this kind of classic experience you play on a server that doesn't have this as an "issue".
  5. Vashazir New Member

    This is nothing like a classic experience, people were not mass camping these npc back in the day, the flow of poeple doing these turn in was a very lot slower and smoother, so your comment is totally wrong this ain't classic experience at all, now that everyone knows the quest, race it, everyone's packed at the bottlenecks etc, not classic at all. With your line of thoughts, picks shouldn't exist, AoC shouldn't exist I guess, not classic for you.
    Ajjantis and TLP Addict like this.
  6. Scruff Elder

    the 'classic experience' argument doesn't work when we've got banestrike, fundamentally changed mechanics, alternative spawn windows, out of era itemization and spells and disciplines, a three month gap between expansions, completely absent moderation and krono-based economy, pickzones, AOC's, parcel systems, etc etc

    there are massive quality of life changes existing in the game that were never even considered 17 years ago, i don't understand why people want to resist changing epic handin respawns to something less unreasonable given the timeframe for the content it is relevant in. i have not seen an argument for this that isn't "go play selos" or "muh classic experience" - in which neither are even an argument in the first place.
    Ajjantis and Vashazir like this.
  7. Yinla Augur

    I'd prefer to see them spawn when someone is in the zone at that point of their epic, with a 1 - 2 hour minimum spawn time the same as epic 1.5s & 2s.
  8. Tierdal Augur

    Suggestion to OP for SK epic, move to SELO server
  9. Scruff Elder

    every time lol
  10. suineg Lorekeeper

    You are correct, nobody mass camped in Classic because the epics launched in Kunark.

    If you want a Kunark experience then play on this server for the next couple months.

    The reasons that things weren't as camped as they are now are not because of spawn rates though. It has a lot more to do with readily available knowledge of the quests and internet up time.

    That being said this is not the first TLP, this is what? The 10th? If you weren't aware of how the epic quests worked on a TLP you know now and you will avoid it on some classes in the future. It's more probable though that instead of learning from this you will just continue to gripe.
  11. suineg Lorekeeper

    There are Classic experiences and there are classic experiences. You won't find me arguing against for or against those things. You will not find me making threads or responding to threads in the positive about changing a classic experience just for convenience sake.

    Unlike you, I am fully aware of my server choice and the issues that may arise on them. I choose my classes accordingly or I choose to skip an epic. If I chose a class with a difficult epic and I wanted it in era then I would choose to put whatever effort that was necessary into it. I have not chosen SK or ENC though and will not but that isn't because of their epics.

    When does it stop though? You going to make threads about the VT key? When Mangler hits LDoN are you going to complain about the amount of wins necessary for the augment? When GoD hits are you going to also post about BiC and its "impossibility" as well?

    The people on Mangler are only aware of what is happening this exact second and have put zero effort or thought into the game and want DBG to fix that for them. Take some onus and figure out how to work within the confines you are given.
  12. yerm Augur

    You are absolutely correct that it is not the classic experience. The problem is that you, and all the others who scream for easy epics, want to cherry pick what portions of the classic experience to emulate and what to discard.

    - the vast majority of players were not 60 by velious. Should we curb or even gate off the ability for all but the most hardcore players to reach max level?

    - sk was an undesirable class, not appreciated for dps and with a group xp penalty. Can we bring those nerfs back?

    - raid mobs were often on longer spawn tables than today and never instanced. Having one total soul leech drop in total for 2 months was normal even at the time of the first tlp. Can we either remove aocs or at least remove epic bottleneck drops inside instances and have these ow only?

    - on most servers a single "uberguild" dominated 90%+ of the relevant raid scene. Other guilds were actively kept down and bullied. Can we remove instancing and let the top batphone guild(s) maintain a monopoly?


    Bad ideas?

    You guys don't want classic eq. Classic eq is rmters having a free run of camps without all you plebs trying to take their camps, and news articles raving about all the money they get off ebay. Classic eq is if you aren't first you're last, go raid 2 expansion back content and only if we let you. Classic eq is gms who enforce camps and being nice sometimes, and give arbitrary favors to friends or ban guilds for dodging aes or charming others, and repeatedly shown to outright screw with people for kicks until finally shown on forums and then fixed catholic church style by relocating instead of removing corrupt staff.

    Even p99ers couldn't handle classic eq. They had to get rules in place for raids to prevent the most toxic abuses.

    So give it a rest already. Nobody here is asking for literal classic eq. What you want is easier epic quests. Leave the bs "classic experience" cherry picking out of it.
  13. oldkracow Augur

    What a great argument the it's always been this way and you should have known better. :rolleyes:

    Always better to make progress on removing 100% stupid design choices that were placed in effect in 1999 based on guesstimates.
  14. Scruff Elder

    so if something is downright awful for everyone involved in participation, it should remain that way?
    your examples of difficulty in later expansions seem to involve actual gameplay, in the sense of performing actions or actually doing something with your character

    this thread is about the absolute goofball necessity to sit your character completely still for dozens of hours staring at a wall or a floor for something to pop up, with at least four or five other players doing the same thing alongside you. this is not difficult, this is not an arduous task - this is just bad design and a soul-crushing endeavour at best.

    can you provide a real, actual thought-out argument to why this should remain the way it is? again, you've provided nothing but unrelated examples and arguments with most following the baseline of 'change is bad', with no actual reasoning to how convenience would in any way be harmful to you or anyone else involved in this. a quest should not be so terrible, so miserable, that people outright avoid the notion of even considering it for their character.
  15. Dythan Augur

    Explain to me why it's a necessity to have your epic? Stop you from leveling? Stops you from getting groups? Keeps you out of a guild? It's something you'd like to have, but not at the established time to achieve.
  16. Scruff Elder

    the necessity refers the requirement to sit on your patoot for (not exaggerating) 30+ hours on average to even acquire your epic - not that the epic itself is necessary. i'm not sure if i failed to write that correctly or you failed to read it correctly, but that's what i meant

    realistically, the shadow knight 1.0 is nearly equivalent to the easily obtainable argent protector. i think this alone is a decent argument for things not needing to be as terrible as they are for how little reward is given from pursuing it.
  17. yerm Augur

    The reward is the status symbol and feeling of accomplishment. As you say, it is not some pivotal upgrade. Since it's reward is tied to those intangible feelings, removing all challenge or bottleneck or even tedium and making it routine renders it a nearly-useless chore.

    You are right that it is poorly time gated, being behind a mere turn in. The problem is you are dangerously wrong about removing all the time gates being a good fix.

    The better fix is to have the bottleneck go back to what it once was: soul leech. If this dropped only once a week on average per server, the status symbol and rarity are back and nobody has to wait in line.

    And we all know people would be lined up here screaming for more drop rate because oprah style sk epics is what you all really wanted.
  18. Scruff Elder

    this is also not a good argument and seems more hostile and degrading than actual attempt at conversation over the topic. the shaman epic and magician epic are both widespread, common, can be completed in the span of about six hours from start to finish and are generally considered effortless. people still find themselves quite satisfied with them, even accomplished, and i can't think of a single shaman with their 1.0 that has ever claimed it's a nearly-useless chore

    if anything, the shaman epic, extremely streamlined as it exists now, is the example of what happens when you allow an epic quest to exist without bottlenecks or ridiculous three-day respawns for their hand-ins. imagine if, for whatever arbitrary reason, the spirit sentinels in EJ despawned into a 24 hour variance window every single time you gave them a turn-in. that would be equivalent to the shadow knight epic, and it would be utterly nonsensical and cries for change would echo across the forums weekly

    making something 'easy' or 'convenient' does not make it worthless, i don't understand why this particular point is so often preached.
  19. Tierdal Augur

    That time our rival guild held the entire server hostage because they got the only soul leach for 3 months. Boy that was fun.

    People don't even know how easy they have it. They even made Karl Mastune easier and people STILL complain.

    Just do the work and enjoy the achievement instead of whining.
    yerm likes this.
  20. yerm Augur

    I don't know any shaman who got pumped over their 1.0, not like I have seen for mages or other classes. It's closer to the excitement a wizard has finishing tflux. Mage, meanwhile, is not a 6 hour total task unless you are paying for multiquests or something, that's just nonsense.

    Meanwhile you ignored one post and edited half of the other, and so aren't even arguing against my main point. Nobody is saying an easy item is worthless. We are saying that being super easy and common makes it not feel like a great accomplishment, not work as a status symbol, etc. Since the sk epic isn't very useful for its stats, nerfing its difficulty (tedium) or rarity isn't helping.

    What I want is to replace turn in gating with kill/drop based or drop rarity gating. Barring that, I don't want even more removed. The line of people is a problem, but the problem is that everyone is able to wait in line and has the rest waiting in the first place. There are probably more sks done or waiting in line for an epic on mangler right now than there were lvl 60 sks in total on most live servers during kunark. Some sks just shouldn't have an epic so early into kunark.

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