Suggestion: Make Escape AAs independant from active DoTs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Iven, Jun 19, 2024.

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  1. Iven the bard

    82. Make Escape AAs independant from active DoTs

    Escape abilities do fail very often because of active running DoTs that got placed on the NPCs. Escape abilities should clear the hate list completely and prevent re-aggro by ticking DoTs, but they do not.

    Fixing that would grant most if not all classes much better survivability. Like if a raid does wipe, or a pull does go wrong, or a train does attack the group. It would mean less downtime and trouble for every player who is involved.
  2. JetZeppelin2h Augur

    What game have you been playing? it has always worked like it was designed and clears aggro even when you have a dot on the mob.

    Are you talking about because after you fade the dot ticks and reaggros the mob? That is the correct way it should work. No different than fading when you are next to a see invs mob. It clears aggro then instantly will reaggro because you are next to them.

    This is part of what they call skill in playing a game. If you want to use a dot on a mob you risk not being able to stay out of aggro even with fade until it wears off or you dispel it.

    I am not sure if you realize it but the fact dots reaggro after you fade is a very important good thing for bards who are skilled at pulling. Have you never heard of a bard who dots a mob then fades and runs through a massive amount of mobs knowing it will reaggro on the next tick and they are well outside the dangerous building filled with mobs?

    If fade wipes dots off a mob you are going to massively destroy the skilled pulls a bard can do. This isn't just game changing for a bard this would be like rewriting the way the class works for a skilled bard.
    Raccoo and kizant like this.
  3. Fcseven XIII Journeyman

    I have suggested in a few betas they add some kind of "stop your running dots" AA to a dotting class so this problem wouldn't happen. Dots have easily wiped a few raids in my time.
  4. Sissruukk Rogue One

    This is frustrating, but I am sure if this were implemented, someone would find some way of exploiting it. Not sure how, because I am not that creative, but I am sure someone will.
    code-zero likes this.
  5. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    The only way to do this would be to have it strip all your dots from NPC's since each tick is going to cause them to agro again.
    fransisco and Svann2 like this.
  6. Knifen Augur

    When a Necro dots something than fds, what happens. Does the dot keep going and the caster not get aggro, or when the dot ticks does the mob re aggro on fd necro. Or does it not even work that way. Just tryin to get an idea of how other classes with dots and some type of aggro drop work.

    I do hate when mobs re aggro right after I escape thou if its an option to be fixed.

    The necro I talked to said the dot wont reaggro until you stand up, so in theory while our Fade buff is up in the song window they could make the mob not re aggro for us. So it should be doable without having to strip our dots off the mob.
    Iven likes this.
  7. Svann2 The Magnificent

    If they do that it should also clear the dot and any other debuffs.
    fransisco likes this.
  8. fransisco Augur

    This is the thing right here. Your escape DOES clear all agro, but your dots keep doing damage, hence you get more agro. Ask necros how they'd feel about FD removing all dots/debuffs from the mob?
    Otherwise you get no-agro damage. Load up dots, fade, dots keep ticking and you get zero agro from them.

    If your in a situation where you expect you'll have to fade due to getting overwhelmed, not using dots is the best strategy.
  9. Iven the bard

    Yes it has always worked like that, and that is bad. That is why I made this suggestion, to change that. And yes, it is about re-aggro by ticking DoTs. The bard pulling method that you described is basically a tolerated exploit of the game mechanics. My goal is not to remove that, but you showed us that it is in conflict with my suggestion, which would give the devs the opportunity to fix two things at once, if that is technically possible.

    I was more thinking about the rogue class, which can spam three (or more) DoTs onto the mobs, which are an important part of their DPS. Escape was originally a pure rogue AA, and the use of DoTs do lead that concept ad absurdum (do make it pointless). The player could use the strategy of avoiding the use of DoTs, to ensure that Escape would work, but that would make the existence of DoTs pointless. It has nothing to do with skill, just with strategies (to use or not use DoTs) that both will turn out being bad in the end. One less than the other but that is situational, not controlable (no tactical value), and purely based on luck.
    • Use DoTs = DPS win = Escape will fail
    • Do not use DoTs = DPS loss = Escape will work
  10. Knifen Augur

    Rogue escape should act like a 100% successful Monk/Necro FD for the entire time the buff is in our song window after escape is pressed. That fixes all the problems and doesnt mess anything up for necros is my thinking.
    Sissruukk likes this.
  11. Iven the bard

    It could be abused by putting DoTs onto an NPC, and then using Escape/Fade etc. But as it would be similiar to FD, the potential is rather small, and the classes that could make the most use of it (NEC/SHM/DRU/SHD/BST/ENC), do all have root, and/or FD, or memblur already.
  12. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    The only way to get it to work the way you want to is to strip that players detrimental that they have on all NPC's. The reason that they get agro again is because the dots do damage which is then attributed to that player. Being able to dot up a bunch of mobs and then avoid all agro from it by using some sort of escape mechanic seems like a pretty big exploit to me.

    The reason it works with FD is because that is a different agro dropping mechanic and how it handles losing agro is different and comes with different costs.
    Genoane likes this.
  13. fransisco Augur

    Totally disagree with this idea, because even if the dots "go away" or "stop doing damage", it completely sheds ALL risk and responsibility of using dots.
    Suddenly, any player can "escape" and turn off any dots they are using. No longer have to worry about your dots doing their full duration because you can now "turn them off".
    All this does is make the game less challenging, simplified, easier, and more brain dead.

    Its GOOD that your actions can have drawbacks and you have to weigh them. If you plan on needing to escape, don't use your dots. Making mountains out of mole hills here, because someones tlp rogue died
    Raccoo likes this.
  14. Iven the bard

    It would be as much of an exploit as FD already is.
    Knifen likes this.
  15. Iven the bard

    Escape abilities are limited by their cooldown timer duration. Bards can make the most use of them, but their DoTs are very short and do require a close distance to hit. A strategy based on DoTs and then using an escape ability is often the worst possible option. Only something for very weak PCs, very bad players, and for soloing. Mercs would be crushed, and about everyone does use a merc. So it would be a worse option than moloing.
  16. Szilent Augur

    I'm on board with deleting rogue dots.
    Dre. and Raccoo like this.
  17. Knifen Augur

    How bout no =p
  18. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    With FD you are prevented from doing anything else while the escape tools let you continue doing other things.
    fransisco likes this.
  19. Knifen Augur

    What other things, besides being able to still move around.

    Keep in mind our escape refresh is much longer than FD refresh. So while we can move around if we do anything actionable it breaks the invis and ruins it anyways.
    Iven likes this.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    What things can't you do if you escape and lose all future agro from dots that you had already cast? When you are FD in order to lose agro all you can do is stay FD and hope that it doesn't get broken by an AE of some type.
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