Stop asking for a TLP merge, it's not necessary.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Xanadas, Jan 10, 2013.

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  1. Vonador Journeyman

    I'd say a conservative estimate would be about 3,000 people, and a more realistic estimate would be about 4,500 people. And that's not including current subscribers. Lots of people love vanilla/classic EverQuest. Lots of people are willing to come back to it. [EDIT: As for new players, I'd say probably around 400-750 initially, and more as time moved forward, approximately 150-200 every month thereafter for the first six months. And that's with no real advertisement by Sony outside of the original community.]

    I didn't. Neither did many of my real-life friends, who don't post on these boards but still complain about the dire state of the MMO landscape and wax poetic about the great time we all had on Vulak before [Anonymous] showed up and threw our schedules for a loop. Neither did plenty of people other than myself who still post at least once a week, saying they'll pay even more than the normal monthly charge for a new progression server. This isn't an anomaly. People want a new string of progression servers.

    Yes - years and years apart from one another. The game is totally different now than what it was when it was released in March of '99. Give those people a semi-regular opportunity to return to their gaming roots, I say. And at least acknowledge the past demand for these special-ruleset servers has been, by EverQuest's standards, enormous. So much so that, the last time we went through the progression reset, Sony had to add another server at the last second to give the people what they wanted. Which was making those gnoll-slayings in BlackBurrow mean something again.

    Which is great for them. No one's argued that EverQuest should stop expanding; it's just counter-intuitive to advertise said content to people who never played. The world of EQ is small and intimate enough [EDIT: the world of EQ is impossibly, incomprehensibly massive; what I meant to say was the current EQ community is small and intimate enough. My bad] wherein it's a safe bet to say that all the people who should know about a new expansion do already, without the help of a banner. The people companies traditionally advertise to in an effort to maximize revenue are those who haven't yet tried their product. Expansion adverts for levels 95-100 do nothing for the self-proclaimed hardcore WoW'ers, whereas a chance to start a clean slate with a bunch of people in what they've been told was the hardest mega-MMO released might. It might not, but it also just might; that's the risk you take when advertising.

    It's nice that they've adapted the game - all games should adapt eventually - but the game I enjoyed was a social experience just as much as it was a difficult and immersive RPG. As for my understanding of the game right now - it's very hard to latch onto. I've tried multiple times and I just don't get it in its current state. I didn't do anything but have my mercenary attack mobs. My avatar was essentially useless - an extra with a cause, but without meaning. For those who enjoy the game as it is - once again, more power to them. It just doesn't do anything for myself, and many others included, in the requisite 'you start at level 1, everyone else is literally level 100 with 15,000 AA's' state.
  2. Malachi Augur

    I think Vox is probably a poor sample of the more established servers. There was a mass exodus to Vox to do server first and all that noise. But once that was done, it didn't really maintain much of its residence.I myself boxed on Vox for months and enjoyed the "new" game. But it wasn't for me.

    There is a sample of truth to the point you are trying to make though. There is a huge disconnect between the old school levels i call them (1-60) and the state of the game now. This is why they have designed the beginning to funnel players quickly unto level 70 from the beginning. This however is depresssing to me since 90% of the game (sooo many classic well thought out zone designs) is pretty much skipped thru if you follow the 7-8 hotzone plan laid out for you. Which, if you plan on having human contact ever, you don't dare stray from the path.
  3. Sinestra Augur

    Start a Kickstart and put your money where your mouth is. If there is really thousands of players that would be attracted to a pay to play classic only server there shouldn't be any problem getting up the money to make it worth their while. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.
  4. Sleppen Augur

    Okay, but let's be honest here. The problem isn't with EQ. The problem is that you aren't willing to invest the time and effort to get caught up with the playerbase in a 14 year old game.
  5. Sleppen Augur

    It's an established scientific fact that 68.36% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

    Seriously, I think that those are wildly optimistic numbers, but even if they were accurate, they wouldn't be sufficient to motivate SOE to do much of anything.

    But it's intuitive to advertise an old school server to players who already quit the game?

    If that's really what you got out of the current game -- that your character was a useless appendage of your mercenary -- then frankly it sounds like you have issues as a player.
  6. SnapVine Augur

    This guy asked someone for a number who they know could only make an educated guess, then called them out for "making it up."

    The only real questions here are:
    1. why are you still engaging him in conversation
    2. when will Fippy and Vulak merge
  7. Malachi Augur

    True level 30 is quite early to decide this "new" EQ is not for you. But I do understand how desolate and depressing it can be for someone new to a server or the game. People are used to jumping right into a game and finding people to interact with and individuals around their level range to group and adventure with. This is just not the case for this game anymore. Your best bet is to have a guild if you aren't a certain level range and want player interaction.
  8. Argosh Augur

    You're right, the problem is that I do not like the new solo version of EverQuest and I am not willing to spend many, many hours grinding alone to try and catch up.

    I was actually level 34, not that it makes a big difference, but it was enough time for me to decide it was boring.
  9. Xanadas Augur

    So the servers went down. Big deal. Crap happens to everyone everwhere. It's not like the downtime caused you to fall behind in progression and handicapped your return. Everyone was offline for that period. What I'm reading here is that because the unexpected downtime turned you off to EQ for awhile and you decided to change your schedule, you want a new TLP because now you feel like playing again.

    I'm reliving the early days by playing in a self-imposed progression guild on a TLP. It's very fun.

    So some downtime the size of a drop in the bucket made you completely lose your commitment to your characters and thus quit the game?

    Random pug groups? none. And that same issue exists on even the busiest WoW server. The sub-max-level grouping experience has been essentially removed from the thought process of MMO's today. Even a new TLP isn't going to give you the low to mid-level "grind" that you're looking for because Sony has simply made it too easy to level.

    Join a progression guild on one of the TLPs. The one I'm in has sub-60 groups out doing stuff all the time. We had a 40 man raid last night and only about half were max level.
  10. Vonador Journeyman

    This is probably the most unhelpful thing anyone can say. You will do nothing to change anyone's point, and you bring nothing of note to the discussion. Congratulations!
  11. Vonador Journeyman

    You ask me for an estimate, then rip me for creating an estimate. Seriously?

    Also, active player server caps are at around 6,000. Both Fippy and Vulak were full and required queues when they were released. That's 6,000 people on, at once, and more trying to access the servers. And since there are two servers, that's 12,000 people playing, and even more waiting. For pretty much every waking moment for the first ten days. That's a lot more than 3,000 people.

    I'm sorry, was Fippy a huge market failure? Oh, that's right, it was so successful it forced Sony to immediately open up ANOTHER progression server. My bad. Slipped my mind, you know?

    Yeah, I'm a terrible player. You got me. Great talk, buddy. Very productive. Proved your point flawlessly!
  12. Xanadas Augur


    If there's one thing you can never underestimate about the dedicated EQ players, it's their patience. Yes, the hardcore ones would probably max our their characters on the first expansion, then be bored, and maybe stop logging in. Personally I believe that if/when a server is busy enough, even when a person has "maxed out" their gear, they will continue logging in and playing because of the community. People waited a ton longer in the actual release timeline than on these TLPs and the original servers were still hugely more populated and busy than these TLPs ever were. Waiting long periods of time is what EQ players are good at :)

    Here's a better illustration of the sort of speculative timeline I'm thinking about:

    Day 1-60: Server opens, 1000 people make toons.
    Day 60: 200 ppl reach end-game, get bored, stop playing (temporarily). 800 still playing.
    Day 60-180 (4 months): Word continues to gets around that a new TLP is up and going and the fact it's still early in its progression is an attractive prospect. This 4 month period of time is a key "milking" window to get people into the game. Let's say 100 people per month come in making 1200 active players with 200 more waiting in the wings for the next expansion. 1400 total.
    Day 180: Next expansion opens: The 200 hardcore players return. 1400 "active" players now.
    Day 210: The hardcore people, lets say it's 300 now, get the end-game and stop playing. 1100 still playing.
    Day 210-330 (4 months): TLP excitement still fresh since the server is still only on the second expansion. Add another 100 players per month. 1500 active players with 300 waiting for the next expansion. 1800 total.


    The 4-month windows generating 100 players per month are only going to be that productive for the first few iterations of the cycle (probably thru velious, max). Somebody considering starting on a TLP is only going to pull the trigger if they see they can get involved while they think they can still have a chance at being able to follow the mainstream. PoP rolls in, GoD rolls in, etc, delaying those next expansions won't produce new players. Yes the server are still technically TLP servers, but the no longer bear the excitement of reliving the glory days.
  13. Vonador Journeyman

    It wasn't just the downtime, it was the nature of the downtime. I don't think I'm remiss for stating that the servers could realistically be considered 'volatile' for a while after the hacking took place. And I have wanted to play progression the whole time, make no mistake about that - it's just that it's been about 20 months. That's a long time considering the veritable online wasteland out there right now.

    That sounds like fun. Are original epics still viable/are the quests still pursued?

    Given the nature of the downtime, absolutely it did. It was not the size of the drop of a bucket; I was in a guild that was competing for the planes and the shutdown cost us a month, it cost us the guild, it cost me my time spent, it cost me many of the new friendships a game like EQ is all about. It sucked; let's not pretend like that month off was good for the game, and for the servers. It was bad. It was a public relations disaster, and a mess that wasn't properly addressed by Sony to the EQ user base. Let's move on from that point, shall we?

    That issue wouldn't exist on a new progression server. That's my point! If you were a part of the original reboot, you'd remember it was significantly more difficult to level than it is now. That was part of the allure.

    I tried. I got to level 30 before I could blink. That's not the kind of experience I want. SOE did such a good job on the large scale of executing this the second time around - I just truly believe they could do a great job the third time through. It'd be a wonderful gift for a fourteenth anniversary.

    TL;DR version: I'll leave it where I started: a new progression server would be fantastic, Sony.
  14. Sinestra Augur

    Suck it up Buttercup. Sorry you don't see the point of the post. You've brought absolutely nothing new to this discussion that has been hashed over and over for years.
  15. Sleppen Augur

    No, I didn't ask you for an estimate. I posed a rhetorical question. I didn't invite you to pluck some fanciful number out of thin air.

    My point is that people like you have an agenda: you want a progression/classic server. The idea that a classic server would attract a substantial number of truly new players is wishful thinking by people with an agenda, not anything that is based on logic or experience. There are thousands of people out there who would try Everquest for the first time if they got to start with content that was released during the Clinton Administration? Right. Dozens, maybe. A couple hundred, possibly. Thousands? That's going to be believable only to people who are desperate to believe.

    That would be a brilliant argument except for the "first ten days" part. Special rules servers are always going to be popular for the first ten days. In the case of Fippy/Vulak, SOE reactivated all inactive accounts and gave them ten free days. The population declined over time. SOE doesn't give us actual population numbers, but judging from the server status page, Fippy and Vulak were below average servers by PoP, if not earlier.

    Do these sorts of servers add to the EQ playerbase on a long term basis? Probably, but the extent of the effect is questionable. The numbers that you are kicking around based on the first ten days are another exercise is wishful thinking. For that matter, we have no way of knowing how many of those people were existing players who just jumped from a live server to Fippy/Vulak for a change of pace.
  16. Vonador Journeyman

    First of all, Sony does not endorse kickstarts. I'm surprised your asinine point made it through the forum administrators to an extent; and then I remember, the manpower for forum policing is limited.

    Second of all, it's funny you make note of 'years', because the most recent progression server was released 21 months ago. Granted, it's far past the point of what is considered classic EQ by most, but really? You've been hearing the argument for 'years', have you?

    Next time, try harder and work smarter. Both points you made are essentially wasting time to lazily cut off a legitimate game feature at the pass. Just because you don't want it doesn't make it an unreasonable request.
  17. Vonador Journeyman

    Your quote, verbatim: "Okay, so what's the number?"

    Just because you really, really didn't want a response and tried to wish it so doesn't make your question rhetorical; the way you pose it makes it rhetorical. "Okay, so what's the number?" is not a rhetorical question. That's an invitation for a response.

    Of course I want a progression/classic server. My new player 'estimate' that you so willfully dismissed as rhetorical was more along the lines of 500 people. That's not a substantial number of new players; that's a proverbial drop in the bucket, to steal from a previous post. I don't think it'd be much, because frankly, it wouldn't be much, but give people a reason to start a game - especially by resetting that game and starting it at the beginning - and some people out there somewhere will give it a go, if only for a little while.

    Basically, we agreed exactly on our points; you note late on that a couple hundred is 'possible'. This is simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

    Again - of course the population declined over time. I counter that a large part of that population cut (that happened before PoP) was due to the server shutdown and the subsequent repercussions, and many of the other players that were left until Planes of Power simply left because their classic experience had run stale - or, perhaps more dubiously, players became lonely due to the abrupt exodus of players after the great Anonymous Fiasco of 2011. You don't think it'd be financially prudent for Sony to even attempt to re-enlist those players who left, though? You don't think it'd be fiscally responsible to start another progression server from Sony's point of view? I'm starting to believe you have an agenda of your own.

    Again, I'm not arguing at all with the change of pace idea; in fact, I'm sure that a large portion of the base 12,000+ I mentioned were players who were already entrenched in Station accounts, and others were people who didn't re-up after the ten day trial had been spent. My argument is simply this; do you think SOE cares about getting players on a long term basis for their progression servers? In all likelihood, no. What they're looking for is the inevitable spurt of cash that will follow for four, five, six months after the progression release. Every dollar helps pay the electric bills, no matter how it's attained. Sony saw the rewards short after Fippy/Vulak were released, I'm sure; I'm simply one (of what appears to be quite a fair number) that would be downright euphoric to rip my credit card out of my wallet and tell Sony to, once again, shut up and take my money.

    TL;DR version: The state of MMO's is bad. Most MMO's suck right now. EverQuest is one of the few that does not. New EverQuest may be fun, but it is not a player-returning magnet. Classic EverQuest is a player-returning magnet. Fire up the magnet, Sony, and watch a bunch of MMO-craved adults swarm back for a good, fair while.

    Also, I will love you all forever
  18. Sleppen Augur

    Of course, you didn't quote the rest of what I said. You knew it was a rhetorical question. I find it far fetched that you really thought that I, or anyone else, was inviting you to make up a number.

    No, it was 3000-4500 people. You just tried to make that claim sound less ridiculous by claiming that they would dribble in over time.

    There is a big difference between a couple hundred being possible and a "conservative estimate" of 3000.

    That argument would work better if exactly the same thing hadn't happened on Combine/Sleeper.

    To answer the first question: They've already done this several times. You just assume that rolling out progression servers is the only way to do it.

    To answer the second question: I don't think a new progression server is warranted this year. It would just wreck Fippy/Vulak. Besides, the ruleset for Fippy/Vulak was a fiasco during the old world era, and that needs to get fixed.
  19. Sinestra Augur

    You don't get to ignorantly quote forum rules or be surprised about things passing moderation when you start attacking people. And before you backpedal and attempt to claim that you didn't, you did so suck it up.

    Sony doesn't have to endorse kickstart. The fact that you even used that as an argument is laughable. If you raised enough money, regardless of whether they support it or not, it would be far more useful as a tool to prove what people want then another of the hundreds of discussions about another server or another Classic server.

    Yes, the most recent server was 21 months ago, but we've had progression, special ruleset, and classic discussion threads since about the time Planes of Power opened if not before. It shows you know nothing of what you ignorantly speak of. The points you argue with me just further show how little you actually know about the game, the boards, and the subject in general.
  20. SOE-MOD-02 Augur

    I am going to close this down due to bickering and is no longer giving constructive feedback.
    Vonador likes this.
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