Stat Consolidation and You: May 2016 Patch Preview

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Roshen, May 6, 2016.

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  1. Derd Augur

    Box, play .. whatever :) but I am not sure what god had to do with it.
  2. Eluwenie Augur

    That's a good question, if the Daybreak team could answer that, some (not all) spells are the same with a Ranja and a Druid. I didn't of that, but glad you said something HeatherPurrs. Druids need it along side with Ranjas since they are doing some effect dot line of spells. It's only fair for Druids as well IMO.
  3. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    Here is data with other older parses:


    0.27% difference in miss rate for +30 Avoidance. So ~0.09% miss increase every 10 Avoidance.
  4. Kongfoo Elder

    With 1342 Hdex I have 187 accuracy and 106 combat effect on the test server. I ran some parses on both test and live to test both of these. The accuracy and combat effect on live were at their normal caps (150 and 100). Both parses had the same scenario. A lvl 110 combat dummy with 1003 ac. I used a Thaell Ew Totem, no tribute, and no buffs aside from Fists of Fury that I got to proc beforehand.

    I got a .6% increase in accuracy from 37 accuracy.

    I gained about 1 Force of Corruption proc every 4 mins from 6 combat effect.

    The dps differences weren't accurate because I noticed my max and min hit for my 2hb was 4 dmg lower on test. This is most likely due to them consolidating AAs.

    Something else strange I noticed was my Force of Corruption was doing 12 dmg lower per proc (non crit) on the test server. I have no idea what would cause this. My spell damage was the same in both situations.
  5. Xanathol Augur

    Careful that miss rate alone probably isn't what you want to look at but rather the effect on total avoidance. Here are the numbers for each column, moving the control column (#2) to be listed first:

    ( 24443 + 5440 + 7480 + 8399 + 5443 ) / 151687 ~= 33.757% (control)
    ( 11016 + 10703 + 5006 + 3276 + 21215 ) / 135854 ~= 37.699% (hDEx)
    ( 34277 + 5513 + 15711 + 11806 + 8315 ) / 198437 ~= 38.109% (hAGI)
    ( 22944 + 5891 + 9968 + 8515 + 6533 ) / 134794 ~= 39.951% (test)

    So the extra 7 hAGI and 30 avoidance netted ~1.842% more total avoidance.
  6. Abazzagorath Augur

    No, that is not how it works.

    Avoidance adds directly to what the game calls "Evasion" (same stat affected by Combat Agility).

    It only affects misses. Misses are checked last. The only affect all those other avoidance mechanisms have on it is to reduce the number of attempts reaching that check. Having more avoidance did not cause the increase in riposte, parry, and block rate on the "after" parse, or the drop in dodge.

    He also said that at some point he gained defensive proficiency buff, maybe halfway or less through the parse. That is what is causing the much higher block rate. The riposte/parry/dodge differences are simply the RNG and shows you just how much variance there really is, such that it would take hundreds of hours of multiple parses (not just one long parse) to statistically note any difference anyway.

    The miss % Sirene posted is 100% correct. It is the number of misses as a percentage of the number of attempts that made it to the "miss" check.

    The problem, however, is that because avoidance adds to +Evasion, you can't simply look at the difference (even if the parse was long enough, or we had enough parses to get at the natural variance to account for it). First, you have to remove the 77% evasion from AA (combat agility+physical enhancement).

    That gives:

    11.668% on the before parse as base misses (21.8197% divided by 1.87, 77% from aa + 10% from +avoidance)
    11.624% on the after parse as base misses (22.0855% divided by 1.90, 77% from aa + 13% from +avoidance)

    which is a difference of -0.04% versus what you'd expect if >100 avoidance worked like <100 avoidance (0.1% evasion per point, or 1% per 10. That is pretty much just random variation.

    So nothing there shows anything special. Avoidance >100 works just like avoidance <100, i.e., 0.1% per 1 point (now, is it really 0.1% per point or 1% per 10, tiered return, we will NEVER know that from parses, too small differences to prove, would require dev comment).

    So every 180 hAgi above 400 will give you 10 more avoidance, which equates to a 1% increase on your MISS rate, which, based off average mobs that don't strikethrough too much, is going to be in the range of a flat 0.08% to 0.15% on overall avoidance depending on the mob miss rate against you as a player.

    Which is right in the range sirene posted.

    Working as intended. Meaning, it doesn't really matter.
    Sancus likes this.
  7. Sirene_Fippy Augur

  8. Xanathol Augur

    The def prof buff definitely muddies the water, ie. can basically throw out the parse. Outside of that, however, total avoidance should still be increased in any increase in misses and is agnostic to any potential changes in order of checks. In other words, total avoidance is all that really matters and you have no idea if the order of checks is the same today as in years past. If the margin of error in changes for other checks is enough to 'throw off' the total avoidance calculated, then statistically speaking, the sample size for misses is also too small to be relevant.
  9. Muvandog New Member

    Dzam, can you provide any guidance for how the Eyes of the Hunter personal tribute will function in the new system? My understanding is that currently it is useful for achieving the 150 Accuracy cap if you are below cap. Will it scale above 150 in the new system, since "everyone" (who uses personal tribute) will be at the 150 cap?
  10. Triconix Augur

    How did you max two stats? All the augs in existence have a concentration of stats. TBM is the first expansion with multiple heroic stats on augs that are from basic named mobs. And even those are limited (2-3 augs available per stat) The ones before TBM were acquired in various ways such as progression, quests, etc.

    Are you sure you know what you're talking about? Because the more you post, the less it seems you know.
  11. Orbital101 Augur

    I was expecting a 2-3% gain going from 100 to 130 avoidance and not .27% unless the previously heroic was overriding my avoidance or that the new formula as not been fully established on test.
  12. Orbital101 Augur

    Even after the patch you wont be able to max any stats and that for a long while. Which im fine with it personally.
  13. VorpalBunnie New Member

    Sindaiann, it is nice to know that all those other spells are out there, but you fall into the same trap that so many long time players fall into. Not all players have access to those spells, either because they are new, or because they are new to chanters. I fit BOTH of those, as I only started playing regularly a year ago, and only recently started ( by starting 2 ) playing chanters. I am not talking about those nice high level spells. I am referring to the very FIRST set of spells....mesmerize to be precise. At level 20-25 you do not HAVE all those spells to choose from. And FACTS remain FACTS. Just because it has always been a way, does NOT make that way RIGHT. Fact is, a hypnotist CAN NOT accidentally hypnotize him ( or her ) self. And it is an awful ( and rude ) shock to be soloing against 3 or 4 orcs only to find yourself mezzed right along with them instead of being able to back away and root a couple of them till you can beat the other(s). Not that I WANTED to be soloing against that many mind's just what I got instead of the 1 I wanted.
  14. KaoK Lorekeeper

    I believe this is the thread you want...

  15. Sindaiann Augur

    Clearly the milk and cookies were not completed or else your reading comprehension would of caught my sincere

    Next time indicating exactly what you are talking about would be helpful. My fault for insinuating that you may be an end game player!

    As for that line ALWAYS mezzing yourself, no one said it was right. I simply stated its ALWAYS been that way. So like the rest of us have learned, complaining about something that should be changed (IE - Stacking issues that are now explained as intentional with Mind Storm) are futile. Sorry, tis the life of an enchanter! Feel free to continue to complain however, we all do it!
    KaoK likes this.
  16. KaoK Lorekeeper

    I still encourage both of you to take this to the linked thread for further entertainment so we can leave this one to people having a B*fit arguing about which Heroic stat is best/worst now and how this is the best/worst change in EQ in a long time.
  17. segap Augur

    Way off topic...

    Was never a big problem in the old days. Single target mez works well for 3-4 targets. Gives you more control and duration than the level 16 ae mez. Tag them as they're incoming one by one. An ae/pbae stun can help keep them from beating on you if they make it to you before you get them all under control. AE mez is your train stopper. Don't forget that charm is a great crowd control option. I also was always really big on resist magic gear which did help make it harder to mez yourself when ae was needed. Not sure if that still helps in the modern lower level game or not though.

    The level 16 mezmerize spell is one of the most powerful spells in the game through level 60 (don't bother using any of the upgrades until mobs are level 60 or higher. Just a waste of mana). It allows you to mez most anything for nearly no mana as you level up. Having a risk to using it is well worth the power the spell provides.

    Who says what a hypnotist can and cannot do in a fantasy world? Could be that you exert so much mental energy to mez multiple enemies, that your mind becomes weak and susceptible to your own magic.

    Besides, aren't you better off mezed than dead in a pull gone wrong? When it's about to wear off, start spamming the cast again.
  18. VorpalBunnie New Member

    Thank you for the thread Kaok, even tho I wasn't looking for any, I found some of the info interesting. BUT, it does not change my stance or my statements. It is blatantly impossible for a hypnotist to accidentally mezz himself, and, just because something has been a way "forever" does NOT make it right. If DB is going to change things, then they should, among other things, try to correct erroneous items such as this. And YES, it was a "bug" that was never apparently brought to anyone's attention. That doesn't mean it can not, or should not, be corrected now. Among other things, mezz type spells are NOT fireballs and go off against everyone in an area which is why some specify you MUST have line of sight. Eye contact or an item for fixation is a common, tho not always needed, part of the hypnotic "ritual". It is not something you throw like a hand-grenade and have go off in the middle of a group where YOU can be hit with the "shrapnel" or "fallout" or any other way you want to think of it. One unfortunate aspect of programming for games, is that those doing the programming do not always have a firm grasp on the aspects they are programming. Like the one who put bastard swords between short and long swords, instead of between long and two-handed swords where they belong. Fortunately, THAT particular faux pas does not really cause any significant problems. Nothing ever gets corrected if someone doesn't speak out about it, and I have chosen this as one aspect to speak out about. It may or may not do any good, but it is one of the smaller things that bugs me about the game and this seemed a good spot to say something, so I did.
  19. VorpalBunnie New Member

    I appreciate the sentiment Segap, better mezzed than dead is fine, and one at a time single mezz would be great, but, when you are soloing and the only one there is your pet, who will not attack a mezzed opponent, and they all come around the corner at the same time, so they are in a group that you are unable to tgt individual mobs from ( I was on Phin with no merc and no enhanced tgt list) the whole concept becomes untenable. They stay mezzed and you stay mezzed until you run out of mana, and then you die. Fact remains fact, an Enchanter should NOT be able to mezz them self. Fantasy world YES, but it needs SOME reality to base itself on, and OUR real world is the basis. Fireballs (area type) are, effectively speaking hand grenades, bows function as bows, swords and shields function as the real world items. Enchanters are, effectively, hypnotists and the effects mirror (tho, like sci-fi to RL science, increase the normally achievable effects) what hypnotists are able to do. And, one thing they are UNABLE to do, and that should STAY that way, is hypnotize ( mezz ) them self accidentally. Fortunately for me in this situation, I WAS able to mezz one at a time, by individual mezz, back up, new tgt and repeat. The unfortunate part was, by the time I succeeded in THAT, I was effectively OOM and had to run for the nearest guards, so missed out on the XP I should have had. Had the spell worked properly and I NOT been mezzed myself, I would not have faced near as much problem, nor been beat up as much, and while I may have had to run from the last one or two, I would have killed at least the first couple.
  20. Questoften32 Augur

    This would make twink starter gear almost useless so why spend kronos to keep buying it as I enjoy? Low levels don't have heroic stats would just miss out on there fun stats. I cant imagine adult eq players would be dumb enough to need this.

    It will ruin fun playstyle and cost you money and on the seller end cost them plat. Bad idea I think.

    Unless you are planing a panda expansion and want to pave the way to attract 12 year old add kiddies, to the game. Then the community dies. Its a domino effect.

    The kids are not very loyal mostly ftp, care about looks, shallow, so lose sub money. They will trash the community then trash talk it, and move on back to goldshire.. After having changes made for them the ruin the game for true eq players.

    As it is it works great totally unneeded change fixing something not broken, only hurts dose not help.

    If you cant figure out basic things you don't need to be playing a true mmo anyway in my view. This must have another reason.

    I refuse to believe devs or biz managers cant see this obvious stuff. Adult people running a company. Much of this is obvious.
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