so, How does DBG intend to address the fact that Spires were not consolidated but, when you pop your spire it now casts all 3. Problem: Max Buff slots, now each class is going to pop theirs and max buff slots are going to....? Solution: all class specific spires will now be consolidated into one buff (not 3 separate buffs)
I'm not sure you are understanding the consolidation. All self buffs were combined into a new Spires buff. All group buffs were combined into a new Apex buff. It's the way the system had to work. They were not going to give out the self only buffs to the group. And they didn't want to eliminate the self only buffs from the caster. So at most you are talking about one additional buff. If you don't like either the Spires buff or the Apex buff, you can always block it on yourself. It is remarkable how many folks run around with the aa buffs in their buff window when they are not needed. Or non tanking classes run 3 x or more different types of DSes because it makes them feel special (I will raise my hand to say I'm guilty of this one). The developers do need to really rethink the buff limits, or at least why buffs can or cannot go over to the short term buff window. I have had times, particularly under burns, where I hit the buff limit. And if someone could give me a blueprint why spires, apex, and a whole host of other buffs do not go into the short term window vs the regular buff window, I would be forever grateful. But complaining that the spires consolidation creates a problem that needs to be addressed is missing the forest for the trees. The buff problem existed before Spires consolidation. The Spires consolidation is just pretty much good for all.
I like the changes to spires. Some classes previously had one extremely obvious spire that would be pressed everytime to the absolute exclusion of ever using the others. I do agree that buff slots are already a major problem and this definitely does add to it. In theory if everyone in a group hit their spires at the same time, we've just eaten 6+ buff slots in the already extremely saturated window. The problem is not spires or other buffs, it is the buff and song window limits being so low.
AFAIK the short term buff window (aka song window) is capped at an even smaller value than regular buff slots. There are times on raids with all things running (self/adps) that my song window is completely filled and will spill over into the buff window/slots. I'm not 100% if this is a display bug or if there is code in place that when the song window is filled it overflows into the buff window. But I don't think the Devs are just choosing not to use the song window to solve buff slot issues, rather they cant.
If you want to really help with this problem then maybe provide a list of buffs you have during a raid that puts you over the limit. Then maybe the devs can go through the list and find things that are easiest or makes the most sense to consolidate. Or others can tell you what you should be blocking that you currently arent.
No, I understand perfectly how the buffs work, What I am saying is they are compounding the issue of buff slots. By popping a spire, I now eat up 2 buff slots, one self buff, and one group buff. Since they combined the Shaman DoT AA, why didn't they just finish the complete consolidation and make All spires into one single buff. The issue of limited buff slots has existed for a long time, however, they are COMPOUNDING the issue by making spire buff pop 2 buffs in my already filled buff window.
Option 1: Consolidate lots of buffs. There are many examples but Shaman examples: - Shaman unity, Str, Sta, Agil, Hp portion - Shaman Spires - get rid of the 2 slot usage of Dissidant Roar Option 2: Increase allowed buff slots.
So in option 1 if there is a debuff that removes one part of such as the agi part you would be okay with losing the other 3 parts? There are parts of that buff that get overwritten or blocked by other classes abilities and it would not be wanted to lose all the the buff instead of just the part that is impacted now.
Just block the group spire on shaman, it doesn't do anything for us anyways (and from parses sometimes I wonder if it actually negatively affects our proc rate).
Changing shaman unity to occupy only one buff slot is a really low hanging fruit and has been for years. Make it stack with everything and just be done with it. I'm sure the community does not care at all if clerics can stack shaman unity with their self buffs if it means freeing up 3 buffs slots.
There are more issues than stacking with other classes buffs to deal with such as debuffs that will strip parts of it.
And things like Warrior Fortitude that overwrite the Foresight component. I do agree that turning Shaman Unity into 1 (or even 2) buff slots would be great, but they would have to sort out the stacking conflicts first. Another candidate for combination would be Cleric Symbol and AC buffs. Even Enchanter Clarity and Haste buffs could be combined at this point. Again stacking conflicts would need to be sorted out first, of course.
But how many buffs over the limit are you typically going? This isn't just a question of what's a good idea or not. What's the priority? Is the unplayable or if you block some things can you work around the issue until they can consolidate a little more possibly next year? As a caster I don't have that much of an issue because I'll gladly block any str, agi, haste and AC buffs. They're all basically useless to me and the new banner has mostly taken away the need for mana pres pots and spell haste if you can rely on those. And after the NET change recently I can no longer stack an extra proc I was getting from another clickie. Not every class is having a big problem?
If people get rid of their permanent AA buffs and block buffs that aren't relevant to their class, they should have plenty of room for proc buffs and spires. Some people like to keep all the buffs in their buff window, not sure why. They don't block the useless ones for their class. Maybe it looks pretty like a well decorated Christmas tree? Learn what buffs you need and block the rest and for Norrath's sake, lose the permanent AA buffs. Removing them doesn't remove that AA buff from your character.
I know that, under extreme circumstances, I can cap my buff window on my SK. But SKs have a ton of self buffs and temporary buffs, so we're definitely not the norm (and I can usually click off 4 or 5 random damage shield buffs people have cast on me to free up room). I raid in the same room as a Shaman and rarely see his buff window get anywhere near full, now that he doesn't need to keep all the item clicky buffs up. Not saying that some consolidation wouldn't be appreciated, but I do agree that it may not be a top priority issue.
You're absolutely right, not every class is having as many issues. I imagine hybrid tanks (knights) probably have it the worst since we need everything a warrior wants, everything a caster wants and everything a melee dps wants buff wise. I also notice the buff problems most often when I have a bard in group and we are full burn as a guild. I usually realize the buff limits are being hit when I see Circle of Power in my buff window instead of the song window.
