Discussion in 'Tanks' started by SK_WAR_MAIN, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Wulfhere Augur

    That signals to me that the abilities are now way under powered wrt total damage. It used to be super valuable to get the rank3 raid tome because it was 33% better. Devs please add it to the list of (warrior) things in this thread that need much higher damage absorb totals.
  2. Wulfhere Augur

    It's not fine because it also kills the evolution of the cleric class.They limit each other greatly because of their synergy.

    Together, the warrior and cleric classes define what can be done in a raid setting. If either of them becomes major outliers, then it breaks the game. We are talking here about warriors relative power, but I think clerics are the real outliers now with their 1-dimensional healing power. Events are won by proactive over healing.
    Skuz likes this.
  3. sojero One hit wonder

    All disc/abilities with absorb totals are way underpowered now. If you raid, or even in group game watch how fast your discs wear off. In raid its less than 1/2 the time they "can" last for.
    Skuz likes this.
  4. Chaosflux Augur

    Discs on long cooldowns need to have caps increased at the same rate mob dps increases or not have absorb totals.

    Short cooldown things need to keep up with mob dps not just get 17% orwhatever the magic number is increases

    It's silly that absorb discs, are in comparison to content less powerful then they were 10 levels ago.

    Or if they are only going to last half of the total time an equal reduction in recast would also work.

    I mean that's just my opinion, especially for warriors who rely solely on discs this invariably affects them far more negatively (though it affects all tanks)
    Skuz and Szilent like this.
  5. Wulfhere Augur

    The main reason abilities have multiple limits is to enable the cookie-cutter treadmill of game design that has been practiced here since level 51+ (RoK). Another reason is to limit power (e.g. swarming for XP).

    This put's the burden on the developers to continuously upgrade those handicapped abilities and keep them in balance with current content. Clearly that's not happening and might rightfully be reported as a bug.
    Skuz likes this.
  6. Repthor Augur

    thers a clear problem here

    cant give warriors more mitigation due to how the game is balanced around warriors mitigation (cuz we mitigate the best) the further ahead we are the more other classes cant even look at a mob without just explodeing and nobody enjoys that . just look how ridicuals some AE rampageing bosses can just reck melee dps if the mob happens to be moved due to whatever moed them and max range alters for it. and say we get more mitigation all of a sudden its no fun for the warrior either then all of a sudden the mob dosent create a challange, if you think raid tanks mass pulling now is an issue just imagin what whould happen when a cleric and warrior got together after such a change whould

    avoidence of hits is in the same boat theres a reason why Hstrikethru is a thing its so devs can garantee inc dmg on PCs

    i personaly like the lines of Shield Spliter/ Aggrivate lines dmg absobtion. we use them, we pay for the use of them. they are kinda like super weak heals thats are handicapped(hit counter) and requieres interaction to happen. this is where i think warrior boost needs to come from. We need something we need to do to bring dmg down and or make our effective longevity more stable. i think the hit counter on both shield splinter and aggrivate should be removed , let us use th entire amount of hp absobtion. it whould be quite good in group content and its has a hard cap so be less usefull but still good in raid just like heals. Shield Splinter and Aggrivate lines when fully invested in can be used pretty often i think the componding effect of removeing the hit cap of both whould make a bigger diffrence then ppl think

    also i said this b4 i agree warriors shouldent get real heals but i think a cool idea whould be to trigger some decent chunk heal over time when we enter berzerker rage (aka lose 50% hp) make the hot not stack with one of the big priest hot groups this way it whould be more of a solo/molo thing or just a choice so u cant benefit from both. maybe its just better then priest hot of that spell group so u dont use that type of hots of warrs but can use it on knights. so when ur in a raid setting that warriors dont become to componding.
    Szilent likes this.
  7. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Kind of makes me think of EQ2 tanking. Tanks there had (have? been awhile since I played) abilities that provided "Stoneskin" effect. Basically it would give a certain number of counters of "Stoneskin" and each one of those counters would completely absorb a hit, regardless of the damage. There are definitely some differences in how damage occurs between the games but something similar could be used in EQ.

    Maybe take a page from SK Reaver's and give Warriors an ability that absorbs a large percentage of damage over a certain amount for a set number of hits, or something along those lines?
  8. Repthor Augur

    its not like that, the 2 abilitys still let thru some dmg but shaves off x% dmg

    58532 Aggravate Recourse III 0 0s 0s 12s+ n/a Self
    Max Hits: 2 Incoming Hit Successes
    3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 33178
    61003 Bracing Stance VI (Shield Splinter recourse) 0 0s 0s 12s+ n/a Self
    Max Hits: 2 Incoming Hit Successes
    1: Absorb Melee Damage: 40%, Total: 45539

    so it whould not freeze our hp its whould just make the dmg intake shed off some dmg of eatch hit untill the recource has used up all the total dmg its can absorb. and on raids the hit counters is not relavant anyway the dmg per swng from bosses just eats it in a swing or 2 regardless so whould be no change in raids at all
    Syylke_EMarr likes this.
  9. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Sorry yeah, I knew how they work now. Was just thinking of future possibilities that could add power to Warrior while differentiating them from the Knights as well.
  10. Wulfhere Augur

    As posted earlier, knights already have a 90% SPA 162 that they spam. It's currently Twart. The thing that differentiates warriors is their reliance on a priest class to replenish their HP.

    I've been thinking that warriors should have about twice the base HP as knights, like 800K HP right now. I think that one change fixes the most glaring problem and doesn't have much downside. It's the direct corollary to (over powered) knight self-healing (virtual HP pool) and serves to close that gap in a finite way. It would mean that most hit point buffs would be negligible for warrior. This would enhance the warrior trait of quickly resuming combat after a rez. That's okay since their real synergy with priests is healing and not HP buffs. Cleric percentage HP aura would have to be considered in the re-balance.
  11. Szilent Augur

    We do use the entire amount of hp absorption versus any enemy with hits worth absorbing.
  12. Repthor Augur

    the thing about numbers is that they can be adjusted , also the point here isent to get abilitys that make us get buffed the most vs raid content but vs group content to try and boost our potency vs the other 2 tansk in group content
  13. Chaosflux Augur

    Abilities that raise unconscious HP amount and abilities that boost heals (a good leader makes everyone around them better this isnt a heal directly).

    Make it so everytime you go berzerk you get a 1 charge buff that boosts the next heal that hits you, or casts a group 1 charge spell haste buff (so the next or the currently being cast heal lands faster).

    Lot of ways not directly healing that you could add that wouldnt violate class fantasy for the folks who definitely do not want to heal.

    Though I think a self HOT if you get super low or a small No time to bleed like absorb activating. Or a guaranteed parry (even against mobs with HEroic strikethrough) would be really helpful?

    Throwing ideas out there.
  14. Repthor Augur

    The idea of the hot is basicly cuz it makes the least componding effect on raids as possible wile beeing pretty valuble in group play or molo play depending how big the hot is and if we are allowed to crit it as we should we do have a heal crit aa passive so it whould extend to that if devs so willing

    The reason a no time to bleed effect or a direct heal when we hit zerker rage whould not be optimal is cuz it whould be at its strongest in raid contend wher hp jo jo like crazzy . A hot is less componding here as it whould just refresf the hot rather then constsntly trigger new direct heals over and over it chaining no time to bleed absorbs.
    And it whould be least powerful in group content where hp dosent spike as hard at all.

    Wile makeing it a hot is a more valueble tool to grouping imo.

    Adding no time to bleed type ability on rage whould come with stacking conficts of our own abilitys thats not something thats useful.

    Thats why i think what i suggested is a better a better path

    Just to be clear i thing the zerker rage hot and the removal hit cap of the combat abilitys both is needed not just one or the other
  15. Chaosflux Augur

    They could just add a recast timer to it, so it can only proc if you berzerk so indeterminate amount of time, similar to how priest alliances work.

    Where it s ability to add alittle extra absorb say 3 times a minute or something or 4 times would be a drop in the bucket on raids. They can fix the stacking conflicts by simply putting it on a different slot.

    Though we are in agreement it really should do both, or the HOT maybe be a better idea overall. Thinking about it.

    Call it Surge of Heroism or something cool?

    Does a short duration HOT, and adds a counter that makes the next heal land on you go boom. Would be cool? Might be able to actually molo/solo some stuff then reasonably.

    Idk I just ride Unicorns dude.
  16. Xorsazis Augur

    HoT triggered by berserker rage sounds like enhanced innate regen with extra steps...
    Skuz and Szilent like this.
  17. shiftie Augur

    Sounds more like the ranger ability that auto procs a heal and hot when they hit 20% health tbh
    Chaosflux likes this.
  18. Xorsazis Augur

    Point is, what makes a HoT not the same as innate regen? It's a form of self healing, which is what everyone is so upsetti about.

    Mitigation is so oversaturated with abilities that its ridiculous. We've skinned that cat 14 times over. It's a skeleton now. All you can do is fix what's broke at this point. It also can't be made to outclass the other tank classes because they want it even.

    I think some others have said it, but I want to give it a spin of my own idea:

    1) Update Shield Stance to tack on extra HP. I'm not sure what number would be good, but lets go with 100k or 25% or something considerable. As long as you are in Sword and Board, you got HP. Keep it warrior only.

    2) Add in a heal boost mechanic. For all direct heals. Make it add 10k or something. %'s could work too, but I know they don't like that as much. Make it permanent. If we can't self heal, we should be able to take 3rd party heals better. Can even have it add to base HoT's. Combined with more HP pool, this would help heals scale for us.

    3) Decrease re-use timers on some abilities. There are some which should be a bit quicker.

    4) Make NttB/PDH/FtF pemanent. I believe Shield Stance has a similar ability already, just up the damage it can handle.

    In the end mitigation has been played out pretty hardcore. HP/heals are the more obvious approaches to this balancing act. If self healing is off the table, outside healing is the place to focus.
    Skuz likes this.
  19. Tucoh Augur

    tbh it feels like warriors have less mitigation capabilities in 2020 than we did in 2018 because they haven't scaled with mob damage. Dichotomic Shielding in in TBM was a heavy cooldown you could drop to dramatically boost your mitigation. Composite Shielding is a speed bump.

    I don't really need more abilities, I need the ones I have to impact like they used to.
  20. The real Sandaormo Augur

    This is all stupid, well played War SK and Pally are all viable tanks. If my normal group wants to replace my Warrior with an SK or Pally, please just say so. I would have no issue with this. I will also have no problem finding a group as the supposed worst tank class.