Discussion in 'Tanks' started by SK_WAR_MAIN, Oct 23, 2020.
I heard Triconx asks asks for Crepuscular Rune on raids.
Mostly Triconix casts Rot Vulnerability to increase his dps on raids!
That's right, they are interchangeable.
Warriors keep a slight edge on raid bosses because they have more raw damage cut abilities (even if the timers of them fade too early nowadays, so need a boost to the caps)
If you boost warrior's survival too much though, then warriors remain the sole choice for tanking adds too (which happened when wars had a 35 % mitigation bonus over knights on shield proficiency), which is wrong.
So as knights's mitigation is essentially like ours now (1% difference baseline), we need to have better self healing. This is why I proposed a big bump to warrior's self healing tool.
It's not a question of preferring another tank, any tank can do the job now on aggro.
On single target aggro, it's now SK > Warrior > Paladin
On AE aggro, it's SK > Paladin > Warrior
Warriors clearly need some boost in the AE aggro department. I was laughed at back in time (from some other wars too) when I was the only one complaining really on the big nerf on Wade Into Battle and Concordant Expanse line aggro values (yeah Expanse aggro thing is dumb tool and I would prefer activated aggro to click instead, but devs don't want to give us this kind of tool it seems).
We should be at least equal to Paladins in AE aggro, if not between SK and Paladins.
Single target aggro, we are still fine, but we have stagnated a lot, so that we fell behind SK on this (SK with their insta cast terror unlinked so can use many and 6 sec recast time, no warrior short reuse aggro disc / AA beats that).
Keeping aggro with a shield and 1 hander is more risky today with high skilled melee DPS classes burning asap ( mostly beastlords with their burn ability, and monks abilities that produce high aggro too sometimes), when our 20 min burst aggro ability Rage of Rallos Zek is down ,we are in danger to loose it.
We need bigger bump on our single target aggro abilities for sure, and a faster reuse timer on rage of rallos zek
We are still better than Paladins on single target aggro atm.
In conclusion, the sky is not falling though, we are still in good shape and we can do our job fine, even if more and more stagnation coming might put us in danger, we will see.
That warriors have a self healing tool is a weird mistake made in a 10 year old expansion
I disagree that this is clear.
Just looked @Triconix magelo.. he uses the Stone of Judgement and the Icy Prism of Avoidance because he thinks they stack
Heh It started out terrible with the ALL CAPS, and the use of the word DEVS in the title. Then it ended up with the all smug "Im not wrong " comment. LOL what is not to love.
I used to play SK but swapped to Warr to help my guild. This post is 100% correct. Sk's get tons of tools for self healing or proccing runes on top of decent discs.
People are saying warriors have more cooldown options but they don't last anymore but sk's can constantly pop big runes with there terror line.
Sk's in terms of tanking can tank raid bosses fine just like warriors, but on top of that the knight classes can tank multiple mobs better, control aoe aggro better, have more options like self heals, stuns. Warrior gets nothing like that. Its a stale class to play imo. They technically are doing fine as they do decent damage which comes from auto attacks, they can tank raid bosses and group content fine but the knights can do the same + a lot more when in the group game. Warriors need more of a boost when it comes to raiding if people want to keep the warrior is for raiding and knights are group mindset. They need a revamp in design to be more interesting at least.
Now I just know you're just trolling or just out of your mind. 1. I don't have both on 2. I'm well aware they don't stack.
Thanks for the laughs though. You're an excellent troll.
I mean, I may as well try to challenge myself, right?! Stop giving away my secrets.
You only think they are interchangeable because TOV was an expansion purchased on Wish.com
If TOV ends up being tuned properly then we will have a chance to see why warriors are the paradigm tank again.
Post like this is flawed from the start. Maybe your Warriors or you DO suck and aren't as good as your Knights. Your opinion is only as good as the people around you and would definitely form your opinion. With no indicator where your from or who you play with its hard to disagree that your Warriors suck.
This game is still heavily dependent on the individual behind the toon. A crappily played Warrior sux but a crappily played Knight also sux. Top played Warrior is awesome , top played Knight is also awesome.
I've seen all 4 types.
I dont think anyone is saying its a crap played warrior, for me its more that the gap just isn't really there anymore yet the gap in group play is quite large due to knights having more useful tools. (And warriors feel stale in the gameplay imo, knights are super fun and active)
Having played all 3 tanks as primary group tank in various box teams, I think warriors are fantastic. They just need more support from other classes to shine.
Knights are more versatile, but I think warriors are the best tanks with good support. Self-healing doesn't matter as much when you have real healers covering healing needs, and a lot of times the struggle is dealing with big spikes (like Strange Magic golems at 110). Warriors handle that better than either SK or paladin.
I was able to get through an accidental pull of 10-12 ToV T2 mobs in Velk's mission basement (scavenger farming) with my warrior, I'm pretty sure my paladin would've died the instant Deflection/Shield Flash dropped. My SK might've lived for a bit with Reaver's Bargain, though I'm not sure I could've held on for the whole encounter.
Warriors can also deal very impressive damage while handling significant tank load in DW stance, whereas knights who need to retreat to 1h/shield will see a huge DPS cut.
I think all 3 tank classes are really good, even if warrior isn't quite as versatile as either of the knights, it can do awesome things with proper support.
Been a while warrior hasn't been the paradigm tank, are you up to date with what SK can do ?
Two of our important discs that we use as part of our rotation between two defensive discs are fading much too soon against the harder ToV hitters (aka Avatar of War and Icebound Bledrek), so against mobs that would hit even harder, this would be again worse.
We will see on next expansion on the updates of these two discs.
Also, don't start about glyph of the dragonscale, you can use it too...
With the same healing support, knights can do even more, because they are adding to their self healing power the healing of external sources...
I guarantee you that both knights can tank your 10-12 ToV T2 mobs with a 2 hander with the same heal support than your warrior receives, while dealing big amount of DPS at the same time.
Healing an sk in group content compared to a warrior or pally is rediculous. Infact it's as if I don't even have to heal the sk half the time. The warriors and pallies are a constant battle to keep alive when tanking the same number of mobs. And then when adds come in, sk has no problem picking them up but warriors and pallies have limited ae agro to quickly and effectively get adds off of me and dps.
On raids...really the same thing. Between self healing abilities and guardian, I can't tell a difference between an sk and a warrior using stand. And then they got reavers bargain on top of that which seems to put stand and any other defensive ability to shame. We have had sks tanking like 4 or 5 of the adds on aow event like it's no problem. Pallies and warriors getting wrecked on two or three. My findings are the same in tov as they were in tbl too.
EQ devs don't have the bandwidth to balance the tanks, any balance changes are largely accidental.
Triconix leads all fights by popping Armor of Relentless Runes.
Highly skeptical that a group geared paladin could 2h tank 10-12 ToV T2 mobs backed by a shaman healer, let alone tanking with 1h+shield. Nothing in the paladin kit compares to stacking Ultimate Stand+Dissident+Finish the Fight. The issue as I mentioned is spikes, you can't self-heal through a 100->0 instant kill.
SK as I mentioned could probably survive with Reaver's Bargain, I'm just not sure about surviving the whole pull if the mana drain causes it to drop off early.
Anyway my point was, having played all 3 tanks in full groups, there are moments where all 3 can shine. When I'm playing my warrior I almost never feel inadequate or think "I wish I was on my SK/paladin for this" (the only time I think that is when I run out of agro tools to pick up adds, but that almost never happens).
Prob Holy Guardian and stack heal boosts from AOTI, Spire, and epic all at once.
HG heal procs are essentially a direct mitigation since they fire at the exact time the swing happens.
If a group geared warrior can do it, a group geared paladin can do it.
Pretty sure that's nowhere near sufficient, I've been spiked to <50% in TBL with Blessed Guardian + AOTI tanking 3-4 mobs with a 1h/shield (it healed right back up, but still - ToV T2 mobs hit like trucks). There's also a 120 hit limit, and it only procs from defensive skills.
I might give this a test when I get to 115 with the pal-crew (pal/brd/shm/bst/rng/mnk, doing AAs and TBL at 110 atm). Still really skeptical that I can get anywhere near the warrior's capabilities in this kind of situation though.
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