So I commute 2.5 hours every day to and from work and have put some thought into this...say what you like and dislike and add your own thoughts please. Would like to hear what people think their class should or shouldn't be but I'll start with my thoughts. THis is all for fun so lets keep the childish antics to a minimum and enjoy each others constructive critisim. Everquest is a Game of 3's 3 tanks 3 caster dps 3 melee dps 3 healers most of these fall into or maybe should in to Burst, Sustained, Utility so lets take a look. Tanks Warriors -Should be the dual wield tanks of the game. I feel to fix this they ought to get an AA to allow them to block with an offhand weapon and special AC warrior secondary slot augs. -Dps they should be the tank that has the best sustained also best damage mitigation sustained. -Agro- single target agro should be best for a warrior. Role In Raid-With highest ustained Mitigation and best single target agro their role is the Main Tank Shadowknights -Shadowknights in my opinion always invisioned them tanking with a big two hander possibly to tie into a life leach system which would help some of the lost mitigation granted balancing might be tough. -Dps- T0 dump their mana they should be greater burst then warriors while having better sustained to Paladins but less then warriors. -Agro- Always saw the Sk's as the best when it comes to aoe agro. Both knights should have best snap agro. Role in Raid- Back up tank with snap agro...ie high agro ability on long cool down. Also add tank for multiple add scenario Paladins -Paladins should be the anti undead killers with a sword and board. -Dps- Lowest of the three tanks vs regular mobs but against undead should be able to compete with hybrid type classes...i.e rangers/bstl/ ect. but not match pure dps numbers. Agro- Snap agro along with sk to be able to pick up incase main tank warrior goes down. Role in Raid- Because of their Divine connection I always felt Paladins should take the cake in Burst Mitigation that is for a short moment the gods show him favor. Making paladins the primary choice for back up tank while sk's primary add tanks. Paladin should also play a role with group heals and cures as back up is situational. With best burst mitigation may play a role as tank during burst raid boss dps as well. Caster DPS Wizard -Of all the finger wigglers the Wizard should be known for their huge single Hits. I think it should have a build up process but if and when they want to burn their mana I think Wizards should have the single Biggest burst in the game with zerkers closely behind but beating them in sustained. Wizards should have a mana issue and that should be incorporated into the complexity of the class. Have a high cooldown where they must go into a trance to regain while doing no dps perhaps. But something to allow them to go boom and rest then go boom again. Dps- Top Burst in the game an ability that allows spells to do 20% more damage at a 30% more cost or something to that effect giving a negative and a positive to burn phases. Role in Raid- Shine in those short fights while slowly fall behind in the long fights. Necromancer -Necros have always been known for their sustained ability to pump out numbers. Giving up life for mana to continue to do harm. Also helping to impart some of said mana to their group. I think allowing them to sacrifice their pets to aid to become a shield to the lowest health person in the group and imparting their health to them could be a fun feature. Dps-Top one or two sustained dps. Role in Raid- Sustained dps and mana maintence. Mage -I see mages as the Utility class of the Caster Dps. Their pets can serve as emergency tanks and they should have some unique buffs that makes them vital to the raid...perhaps a elemental reflect to cast one character for casters raids that use elemental damage. Or the ability to Conjure health or mana stones. Also I think mages should play a role in efficient aoe killing for those aoe encounters. Dps-Better sustained then Wizards and better burst then necros, the middle of the road when it comes to caster dps. Role in Raid- To use pets to be able to assist with adds or be an add tank. To offer some sort of unique utility to the raid possible said mentioned above or something they currently do already like uber ds. Melee Dps Berserker- - Beserkers are known as the wild men on the front line who would throw down their shield and run in weapons blazing. That is they trade survivability for Dps. And it becomes up to a good zerker to carefully know when and how to make that trade. I feel their blind ability should be a blurred vision and their root should be a snare... would allow a more equal trade to the effects. Dps- They are the burst of melee dps falling just short of wizards. Able to burn their stamina for real true burst. But maintaining higher sustained then their wizard counter parts. They should get a burn and rest mentality like wizards only they get to keep swinging while they build stamina back up. Thus allowing them a slightly higher sustained. Role in Raid- Burst when needed sustained when not. Like the wizards should have a high burn phase that drains resource for when those phases are needed. Rogue- -I see Rogues can be used to scout ahead to help find the best locations or route to the boss. They should have a higher stamina regen wearing only leather and known for their fitness in lore. Dps- The sustained dps of the group. Zerkers will beat them when they go balls to the wall but rogues out to out perform in the long run. Finding ways to make their play style more entertaining i havent found one yet maybe aa based or maybe it is but i dont have a high end rogue so there we are. Role in Raid- Raid Scout when needed or corpse return. I think rogues Monks and Bards should be the only true classes who should be able to Fade. As it plays into their lore..i.e. smoke bomb. Possibly allowing all three of these classes to have a way to once per hour resurect that of another player..i.e. a rogue poison, bard song, Monk divinity. Monk- Of the melee classes Monks out to be the utility class and middle ground. Pulling should be reinstated as a need for raids again. Monks and with unison of Bards should really be the way raid pulling is utilized. Primary pullers being Monks. I also think an added bit of utility here should that monks should be able to get some decent aoe dps to help clear aoe adds when needed. Dps- Better sustained then Zerkers while better burst then Rogues. Role in Raid- Puller while also utilizing abilities to assist with aoe and being on par for dps with others. Ill Bring up thoughts on Healers and Hybrids later but here it is for now...lets try to enjoy this with the idea of balance...for what it matters my main is a bard with paladin being my secondary char so you know where my biases are althought trying to limit them.
You do no justice by oversimplifying things to fit this model. Warriors are the masters of arms and armor. We should be tank-worthy in any stance.
Skimmed. You suggest way too many nerfs to bring EQ classes in line with what you think the class title means. You should instead look at what the classes do and change your definition to suit EQ.
4 classes are brought up in the next page. was just a fun exercise to my thoughts of eq...how would you put Zerkers for example Hatsee...whats your vision for that class assuming top of everything isnt an option.
this is a fun theory craft I am newly returned player so yes interested to hear where others see their class.
Over simplifying on purpose. And from what I have understood most warriors feel it is necessary to use a shield when raid tanking. Always thought personally they shouldnt have to and should be possibly the one class who can get the use of a shield without needing one because they are the masters of their weapons.
Warrior- Main raid tank. Logs on a dps alt for group stuff. SK- Offtank/CC/puller. Top group tank but would rather swarm. Probably has a shaman box. If someone has a tank alt, its this. Pally- Offtank if people remember to heal them. Top pick group tank ONLY for undead zones. Otherwise see SK Wizard- Top caster dps. Wants to be top dps period. Big time number crunchers, thus will always claim their class is broken and have the parses to prove it. Necro- Tortoise in the race (wins). Calmly tops parse while watching TV and doing bong rips all night. Mage- Red Headed Step Child/Rodney Dangerfield. Berserker- See wizard, only with less OCD towards math/data. Rogue- Should be the necro, but since we can SoS and unlock doors that are always open or disarm traps that are never there, our sustained is not that great. Monk- See: Identity crisis. Kinda a Red Headed Step Child as well. Cleric- Heals tanks in raids and then logs out. Does enough group content to stay out of trouble at expac launch and then disappears. Druid- Heals casters with group heals and splashes tanks. Otherwise, will not be online unless being boxed by someone else.Can't solo, so why bother. Shaman- Savior of melee. Preferred group priest (other than cleric merc). Always a few online at any hour. Ranger and Beastlord: Dps with the option to safely be at range or melee depending on the situation. Trade off is you do less dps as compared to someone stuck with either or. If a player is going to claim to be an elitist, for some reason it is these guys and will have the attitude. Must be all the years of getting hammered by bad class balance. Group game consists of Me, Myself and I. Bard and Enchanter: ADPS and CC. You only need one enchanter but there are never enough bards.Good enchanters tend to be high strung. Everyone loves bards but...people who play bards. Note: there is no lore here because EQ has long since stopped being about lore as opposed to what the numbers tell you and practical roles classes play.
cool input langya...lol as a bard...completely agree...i always want to be the only tail being fawned over in a raid and thus hate seeing other bards..lol. I was simply putting stuff down as how i would balance the classes around the game...trying to allow everyone have a role. I heard enchanters had gotten more group aligned buffs for casters...is that going to make them kind of like a mini bard for casters only?
am i to understand right that necro play is cast all the dots u have then drop all spells in gem slots and pick up lower lvl dots and cast those too?
You would be right. Then again any class can rightfully claim that. Much of what I posted was just for fun/humor. We all know/have known some very good players who are completely drunk/stoned out of their minds to the point they can't walk or even know their own name but still turn phenomenal numbers. Some of them were necros.
This is basically true at the top end. Personally, I think it's a great thing that they added some new utility to the enchanter class-there were way too many raids where the only reason to have more than one enchanter was because they were guildies who showed up at the start of raids when there was still space for them. Given my choice, I'll take an enchanter AND a bard though. DPS goodness.
Warriors - heavy plate tank, armor rack, mana sponge. We strap on as much protection as possible. Plate Nostril Guards - gimmie, I'ma tank I'll wear them. Not to be confused with DWing Rangers and other prancers and dancers. ----------- Paladins - See, one day even the stars will die and the earth will be encased in a tomb of ice under a pitch black sky....nothing at all will remain. Nothing except Paladins of course. Wizard - Begin. PHOOM WHOA, that was quick. Yes, but fair. <3 EQ Comics
Funny, I was going to suggest you were over-complicating things... This kind of granularity of differentiation is just a balancing nightmare, and there's no good reason for it. No one cares what minor differences may exist between classes except as a matter of pride. People only really care about whether or not a class is capable of performing their basic function. In groups thats: tank, healer, other (has tended to vary over time; puller, CC, slower, etc), and DPS. The first three you're either good enough or the group won't work. Variation is largely irrelevent, and what sets classes apart comes down to what else they can do. (But there's not really enough "else" that's actually valuable enough to make much difference.) Anyone can DPS, and likely do it well enough for the group to succeed in most cases, so it's more a matter of good DPS or not. Variance among the "good" doesn't much matter, except again the "what else" stuff. In raids, there can be enough complexity to spread the "what else" around. Though I think there are still too many classes (too many DPS classes in particular) to create significant differentiation. Theories to make each class unique in raids typically amount to making a handful of classes absolutely vital while others are left with some largely meaningless situation advantage. There's nothing wrong with having multiple classes doing the same thing at the same level. No need to over-think it.
I have to disagree. I feel having to much over lap of ability has severely hurt games like wow and eq2 two of which was a contributing factor as to why i left...i felt my class was no longer unique the lines that separated them was ever blurring. Sure overlap makes balancing easier but rp games are firstly about the ROLE you and your character play. I was mostly describing the raid environment because just about any group of rag tags can still make a successful group and really that is how it should be. Grouping for the casual and raiding for those who want that level of commitment.
It's probably a violation of the Paladin code to reveal this, but... Paladins, um, don't need healers. If a paladin is properly geared for content, and dies from "lack of heals", he/she is either tanking too many mobs, or slacking.
I'm not a fan of a lot of these ideas. Advocating necros' role in a raid should be feeding mana to other classes....bad idea. Moment you have necros doing that, their sustained DPS is going to take a hit. Wizard going into a trance to regain mana and not being able to do anything, no please no. Thank you though for not saying the primary raid responsibility of my shadow knight should be kiting.
Necro thing- probably a good point Wizards-from what i can tell they appear to be way out parsing and need some sort of scaling back? correct me if I am wrong...always saw them as having great burst but great burst comes at the cost of burning through mana and thus had have some sort of negative. Again this isnt a post of me trying to say i have all the right ideas...rather that here are some ideas and was curious to hear whats others ideas would be. Did you perhaps have any? Whats your thoughts on a role for an Sk in a raid? as it seems you refer to that as one of your classes you play. again meant just to be an open dialogue
