so they took away clicky aggro

+1. I would add to this that I see too many people who want the game to be completely re-designed to suit their personal preference rather than play the old-school game as we now have it preserved, warts and all, which is what the TLPs are supposed to be about. When I see something like:

And nobody else is challenging this statement, I think to myself: Wow, have we as a community lost all touch with reality. I would much prefer devs to work on new content than try to re-engineer old content that is otherwise stable.

Warriors all yelling: "they took our jerbs!"

As a Warrior main I'd have to say that I don't personally care about them fixing jboot spam aggro because we shouldn't even need clicky items to maintain aggro in the first place.

What I will say is this: If you are going to change jboots/shield spam in any way, please alter Warrior abilities so that they can maintain aggro with their own class abilities. Definitely rework taunt, but also increase the hate generated by our single target (Provoke) line.

(How these are reworked are for another discussion of course.)

There is literally nothing wrong with warrior aggro as is right now.

Would just like to point to to people.. There's two distinct types of AE's that Dragons (or any raid mob) are doing. PBAE and Targetted AE.

PBAE will still go off even if the Dragon can't see their target, and it will still hit any person that's in Line of Sight to the Dragon.

Targetted AE is the one being exploited, because it's failing the Line of Sight check. When a targetted AE does go off, it will hit anyone in line of sight to the mob's target, not the mob itself.

Most of the mobs in Veeshan's Peak use Targetted AE's, thus allowing their ability to attack through walls but not Target AE. I believe most mobs in future expansions (including velious) use PBAE.

I'm not sure when it was changed so that mobs could attack through walls, as this was not the case back when I played Pre-2010. Back then, a mob would just continue pathing until it could find you, and if it was 96% or lower, it would just summon you.

I do agree that something needs to be done with JBoot spam generating the aggro it is, as that is definitely unintended. My suggestion would be (after reverting recent changes) making it so that any instant cast item, with no recast and no charge consumptions, which is not a proc, no longer generates aggro. This would restore aggro generation for any spells that lost it, including rune casts and procs, as well as items like Midnight Mallet (Because they have charges).

Jboot agro should be removed. You don't need Jboots to hold agro in groups, or pull, we've been doing it for years without spamming Jboots. The only people arguing to keep this are the ones mad cause their 6 man may not be able to kill naggy/vox as easy because the dragons might actually use their abilities on them.

Also I want to reiterate the guy talking about Velious. Part of what makes the AoW fight hard is his ability to reposte, but if the tank can just shield and not attack and spam Jboots basically negating much of the threat of killing a tank. So many ways you can exploit these items.

For the health of FUTURE TLPS, JBoot and ANY insta-cast item should have ALL agro removed.

LOL! Yes, they take so much coordination and planning...I mean you gotta plan for those abilities the dragon has that they wont use! It takes so much planning and coordination that you can easily take 20-25 people IN ERA and kill both naggy/Vox because, ya know, they basically just stand there and die.

What a ridiculous statement.

It's really sad to hear how much these were being abused to cheese encounters. It definitely needs to stay removed, but they need to fix the other aggro issues that resulted from it. Otherwise, there's a lot of other unintentional advantages being introduced as a result.

You obviously no nothing and should stop talking. Buff agro is essential to Bard kiting and Bard kiting is hard designed into a few fights in PoP as well as VT.

Instant click buffs have also been a know thing for over 20 years now, it's not an exploit you're a crybaby.

what the hell are you talking about? Did you even read my post? I post about Jboots only and you're going on about all this other stuff.

You made a post about Jboots agro. There is 2 ways to nerf this First you can take away/reduce buff agro. This has the obvious problems regarding intended gameplay kiting that is reliant on buff agro.

Second is to give JBoots and a bunch of other items a recast timer, this doesn't fit your argument of "unintended gameplay" because the DEVs knew about this 20 years ago, before any of the current DEVs were even working on the game. The DEVs knew about instant clickies for agro generation and designed gameplay around it, it's literally part of the design in fights like RZTW.

Just because that's what you did doesn't mean that is how it was designed to be done. Get over yourself. Just say that you don't like the change rather than attack people.

But it literally is how it was designed. GMs and DEVs used to watch high end guilds Raid. They literally would've changed this 17+ years ago if it wasn't that way.

What about that event explicitly dictates that it was designed to be done via clicky aggro? You're talking about kiting. Kiting is possible without clicky aggro.

Mob run speed+ the fact things like Terrors used to have a cast time. Only way to mass kite back then was with instant click buff agro.

Moreover even if we accept it wasn't intended design. We know the Devs knew about it back then and did nothing to "Fix" it.

After doing Earth A and an LDON under the new agro situation...it's almost like, warriors aren't overly negatively affected, but even minor heals or buffs get the casters instant top agro and summoned. Sort of the opposite of what's been initially discussed. I'm curious to hear from the Devs just what's going on. Not sure about clickies....

Whats happening is happening that you are dealing with packs of mobs that don't all have tanks on them. Thing like clickie aggro and rune procs aren't working to allow the tanks to hold them all off the healers.

Since I am guessing that you are on Mangler, why aren't the SK using Dread Gaze?

Because any aggro without a direct damage component is currently broken, too.

You have bards singing buff songs on the clerics and hostile songs on the mob. That's the interaction that is updating mob aggro. Turn off songs and you can non-CH heal nearly infinitely without aggro, as long as you don't directly attack the mob. Buffs won't even drop you into combat.

Knew about this? Sure. Designed fights around it? That seems far-fetched. They have "fixed"/updated years-old questionable mechanics such as illusion through doors, etc. recently.

Jboot aggro should not be nerfed. It's great for multiple reasons outlined. Monk pulling especially.

If they are concerned about the dragons being exploited just tether them to their lairs/spawn points. Thats what they did with Emp and VT in Luclin. There is literally zero reason to change anything to do with aggro.