so they took away clicky aggro

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by curious2, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    There are more than a few uses for this, I would urge caution in changing this. For example:

    Is a monk your puller? JBoots will help prevent someone from ripping a pull off of them.
    Are you trying to help damage shield PL a friend? Jboots can help any class do this, whereas without it many classes cannot.
    Are you trying to kite? Jboots can help with this.
    Are you trying to intercept large pulls? Jboots can help with this.

    And then, seperately, remember:
    AE dispell? Instaclick jboots (I prefer at least 2)
    Certain AE debuffs? Start clicking that shield

    These are just the first that come to mind. You just started letting us click from bags early on progression servers. Why do you think this was such a nice quality of life change?

    And definitely please don't change the recast speed, there's a reason people love farming stuff like CoS and Jboots, and it isn't because they take 10 seconds to cast.

    One of the things I especially like about the Jboots functionality is how many different problems it helps multiple classes with. I can't tell you how many times my Monk friend shocked a threat-heavy puller when they couldn't simply rip a mob off him during a pull - much to their chagrin.


    Changing Shield of the Immaculate, that's a cringetopia-level suggestion.
  2. Trizek Augur

    Personally, I feel this is a logical change.

    I always found it odd that J-Boots generated a ton of agro. We had little games going in our Guild during mini boss fights if we could pull agro off our MT who J-Boot spam'd. No one could.

    I get this has been in the game for a while (if not from the start? Idk I started late in EQ.) but the whole instant clicky buff items generating agro just, well, seems broken and unintended.
  3. curious2 Lorekeeper

    nothing is wrong with clicky buff aggro, all other buffs work the same way

    FIX the LoS issue where the dragon doesnt do his/her AE when target is NOT in LoS
    Halindar and HoodenShuklak like this.
  4. Stix Man Journeyman

    The fix is not to fix the line of sight / AoE problem. That is not the actual issue and that has to do with being indoors.

    The reason that works is only because the dragons hit through walls. If the dragons didnt hit through walls, then you could not "hide" from the dragon while it still attacks you. It would simply just go around the corner and find you if you tried to hide. The dragons not aoeing, when target is not in line of sight, is supposed to happen indoors and that should not change.
  5. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    You listed a ton of things other than "they make me run faster". You did a great job explaining to devs why they are right to nerf jboots aggro.
  6. Foaming Augur

    Instant click aggro needs to be addressed. Its really good, and borderline broken. I used it, abused it, and enjoyed it. What should not change is the usefulness of these items. And these items are only useful because they're instant click with no charges. The 1 second recast on Shield of the Immaculate is a great way to address this. It keeps the usefulness of the item while also limited how often it can be used.
    Halindar likes this.
  7. curious2 Lorekeeper

    i completely disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.

    have they posted that they have fixed aggro yet or found the culprit

  8. Stix Man Journeyman

    So, you think they should change indoor dragons to AoE through walls? Good luck with that.

    That's what you are proposing.

    You're asking them to make aoes able to hit people who aren't in line of sight of a dragon. Which is not how indoor dragons have worked. It's not the right change and they won't ever do that. They refuse to fix things that make sense for the health of the game, and you think they're going to make dragons aoe through walls...

    I know you don't realize that's what you're saying. But, that's what the change would do. The change cannot be focused on the dragon aoeing without line of sight. It wouldn't even work like you think... So, the aoe can go off, but the tank is still hiding behind a wall... so the tank still won't get hit by the aoe... so the only solution using your way would be to make the aoe hit through the wall. It cannot even just be centered around the target, because then you can just stick the tank behind a wall and have no one in line of sight of the tank

    The only way they can fix it the way you want, is if they made aoes hit through walls and that just will not happen for indoors.

    Think about what happens when someone around the corner gets aggro (assuming your "fix"), naggy will just aoe everyone hiding behind the wall because it targeted the cleric that is sitting on the other side of a wall? or will it hit just the target and whats in line of sight of the target? Neither of these scenarios are what you actually want. Once you think logically, you'll see that the changes you are asking for wouldn't fix it like you think, nor would they ever make indoor aoes go through walls.
  9. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    Sure, if they want to fix all of the problems that these items correctly solve, go for it.

    I suspect it'd be simpler, and take far less dev time and attention, if they instead kept these items as they are - which has the side effect of giving players a bit of agency in improving their own performance.

    Anybody can get a pair of jboots, nobody is being excluded from gameplay because of them. And Darkpaw doesn't need to go a single step further in its march towards removing the fun things from this game that players have appreciated and enjoyed for years.
  10. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    Your usage justifications were not problems that need solving though, they are just part of the game.

    - Monk using jboots aggro to prevent others from stealing pulls - whats to stop the same monks from using this to steal pulls from others? Also not an originally intended use
    - using jboots aggro to DS PL - not an originally intended use and can be done fine without them
    - kiting - ok, jboots legit help with this for run speed, but I assume you are also referring to, yet again, jboots aggro
    - using jboots aggro for intercepting large pulls - see above
    - AE disspell - this has nothing to do with the aggro issue, and it is an area of concern if they do make a casting time change, but mobs will still die, and people will still have ways to deal with AE disspell
    - helps multiple classes with several "problems" - again, this is why they are looking at nerfing them.
  11. bardybard Journeyman

    That can be said about 99% of things in this game.
    Next thing you'll be doing is telling kids to get off your lawn?
  12. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    I am trying to think like the devs
  13. sauron69 Lorekeeper

    I know you said no ETA but can we expect this to be fixed in a hotfix or are we waiting till next months patch?
  14. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Soti already has a built in recast timer so while the first cast is instant, spam clicking it isn't giving you as many casts as you can click per second like Jboots is. Shield is fine the way it is.
    Halindar and Foaming like this.
  15. Hadesborne Augur

    Newsflash, this item was already nerfed before. It doesn't need nerfing again. Learn your EQ history, then come post.

    No, that isn't what he is asking for. You don't know what is happening, and as such, have no experience. Come back when you have some, then you can have an opinion. (you know, one based on facts)

    Changing Jboots or any other instant click at this point is ridiculous. Do they help keep aggro? Sure. Is it the "end all, be all" of tanking? No. There comes a time (very soon) when even this will not keep aggro on your tank. These items are good for one, maybe two eras to assist in aggro generation. They help in a few other niche fights but strats change with each expansion and complaining about naggy at this point when he can be done in an instance with 1-2 groups, jboot spam or not, is a bit passé.

    Remember jboots aren't an "I WIN" button. These fights still take coordination and planning.
  16. Relentless Doxxed Grizvok

    I'm well aware of the history of the SoI, and the current version we have needs a major nerf, period. This still works not only to generate infinite threat even at distances outside of mob summon range....HELLO exploitation....but an instant cure with no GCD is just foolishly flawed design to be available that early on in the game.

    Here's some facts. People having been using these items to hold agro on Naggy/VoX/Trak/other bosses in later expansions...yes later hold agro on mobs outside of the mobs summon range...making them possible to kill without the mob ever being able to fight back.

    Mob summon range needs a global increase on every mob in the game especially bosses.

    The only thing thats ridiculous is how long these items have been allowed to retain their current level of power for items that are available in the base expansion of the game and are literally never replaced as agro generating tools and raid utility tools. Something so powerful should be gated by something much more difficult to overcome.

    You are clearly under the impression that these items lose their value after Kunark. They have been utilized in every single expansion from Classic to Omens so far on Mangler as a tool to gain and hold massive AoE agro on characters that posses no natural abilities that would allow them to hold massive aoe agro otherwise.

    They can be used to hold infinite agro on Avatar of War in Velious as a more current example for you Aradune and Rizlona players. Using these items pre-AoW engage allows tanks to wear a shield and a non-weapon primary so they completely remove the possibility of being riposte and yet never lose agro.

    This negates the need to actually hold agro, or for your dps to worry about pulling agro, which was something players in this game used to have to think about. Now there is no need for thinking about agro, infinite tank agro is just assumed. This is bad design and makes for a very poor player experience for tanks.

    Everyone heal X...he will have infinite agro, DPS go all out from the start.....if you have a heal button just heal X. Real heavy coordination...BRO.
    Duder likes this.
  17. sauron69 Lorekeeper

    Most of those you can have the same effect just kiting them with a hybrid to gain infinite threat you can taunt off of, big deal.
  18. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    The history of EverQuest is littered with instances of unintended usage, and I believe that you have been around long enough to remember them.

    The Darkpaw policy makers should think long and hard about their march to eradicate everything that makes this game unique, and those things that players have long since discovered and enjoyed. There are too many actually pressing issues that developer time would be far better spent addressing, for both TLP and Live playerbases. Did you know that on Mangler there is a guild going around stealing Epic 2.0 chests? And even since Kunark, GMs have actively encouraged the practice of stealing epic turn-in mobs from other players - resulting in the loss of those items to the player that spawned the mob? There is almost nothing that GMs will step in to correct anymore and we are told constantly that there isn't time to address things that are actually hurting the players - I saw a post about the Phinigel HAs and spell-scaling recently, for example.

    There is too much wrong right now for this to be where time is getting wasted.
  19. Foaming Augur

    The quickest solution would just be to add a 1 second recast on all instant click items. The items will still retain all of their original intended value, and much of their player use value, but would not be any where nearly as abusable as they are currently. This also vastly lowers their affect on server load and can be done with minimal dev time.
    Mithra likes this.
  20. Trance Journeyman

    Nope, they're gonna send a junior developer in to tinker with the 21 year old legacy code of a core system that could potentially break the game for all servers at once without weeks of rigorous testing instead.
    Foaming likes this.

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