so they took away clicky aggro

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by curious2, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Triconix Augur

    Based on what I read on the bug report, I'm not sure people understand how taunt works. If a person taunts off a person and does nothing else after, they won't get aggro. Taunt is top of hate list + 1 hate. In order for mobs to actually change targets you +4 hate over the 2nd person. Knowing this, it's obvious you wouldn't see a target change of a person just sitting there taunting.

    As for the "you already have this target's attention" concern. Is the mob casting or stunned? If so, you won't see the mob swap targets until after it's either done casting or no longer stunned. There may be more going on, but I haven't logged in since patch so I haven't seen any "new" aggro behavior. However, the described initial taunt mechanics looks to function exactly how I would expect it to.

    Regarding no more click aggro, Warriors definitely need more aggro tools in the early expansions of EQ. They are arguably the most broken class in that aspect as they weren't optimal in doing their primary job. Remember, tanking is more than just being able to take damage, you need to maintain aggro. Maintaining aggro is something warriors suck at until heavy proc mod weapons and added discs/AAs. There are other ways to establish good hate, but it shouldn't be needed.

    A good start would be making new aggro discs to replicate the scowl/roar lines of modern warriors. The available ones right now give less instant hate than just about any nuke or debuff in the game. That would at least give us one high instant hate disc and 1 hate-over-time disc. Outside of that, you're looking at either major code changes or itemization changes - innate proc rate increase for warriors or maybe added hate mod or proc mod onto epic 1.0. Another option is implement a new innate AA that gives increased aggro. They have these on live, but maybe they can open them up to TLP.
    Auesheet, Runes and niente like this.
  2. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    Ban those using the positioning/AE exploits.

    The threat generation did not need a change on its own.
    Talimat likes this.
  3. AtabishiWoW Second best guild leader you'll ever have

    The GM's do not view it as an exploit. I have petitioned it, submitted bug reports, videos etc over the years and have even watched GM's spectate guilds using it on prior servers. They view it as the meme goes "a clever use of game mechanics." The AE wall trick is also not specific to TLP's. Guilds have used it through different expansions on live for over a decade.
  4. JooJooFlop Lorekeeper

  5. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Thats truly insane that they would say this.

    Its like back in the day you would and did get banned for standing on a roof to avoid mechanics or getting hurt.

    Was it clever? Of course. Was it game breaking? without a doubt.

    By all means let the people do it until it is known its not allowed, but ti say its just fine and then nerf reasonable gameplay strats? Just absolutely backwards by anyone actually playing here.
  6. Xhartor Augur

    Stuns are probably fine, those aren't a buff. It's rune procs that are having issues.
  7. Runes Augur

    I used to be in Rampage at the start of the server and I LOL'd the 1st time I saw this meme and I still never get tired of watching it, its so funny.
  8. Protagonist Augur

    This is incorrect and has been for several years now. Here are the relevant patch notes from 2016, when it changed:

    A normal taunt success generates top aggro +2%. A crit taunt generates top aggro +10%. A partially successful taunt gives a 50% chance of adding either 30% or 5% of the difference in hatred between them and the most hated target.

    You're also missing the important bit - after fudging a no-aggro taunt, non-ch heal and rune aggro becomes almost impossible to rip aggro off the non-taunt tank while the mob's logic list is still registering the taunt tank as being top target.

    This is extremely exploitable as it currently stands, especially for those servers in Luclin+ where ramp matters. It's not about clicky aggro cheese, though it is impacting that. It is a severe break in normal aggro behavior.
    Wulfhere and Wayloss like this.
  9. Relentless Doxxed Grizvok

    Anyone complaining about this has very little idea how bad this was being exploited. This fix is several servers overdue.

    People were killing Naggy/Vox while taking no damage and spamming jboots 600 yards away from the mob until they just fixed this. People have been milking this exploit for years.

    Cheers to the dev team for taking a hatchet to this garbage, maintaining agro as a tank will actually mean something once again.

    Make Tanking Grate Again ! The forums filter "G r e a t again" LOL
  10. Gnothappening Augur

    I'm all for fixing clickie exploits, but people are saying it affects weapon procs now. That is an issue if it is the case.
  11. Triconix Augur

    Forgot about that patch. Taunt's been so useless on Live in so many years I didn't even think about those changes.

    Anyways, isn't proximity hate only like 1? 2% over 1 is only 1.02 hate which would still not be enough to turn a mob's hate over to another person. It's very similar to aggro abilities without hate override. Without it, hate numbers are severely capped.

    I haven't noticed anything janky with aggro tonight so far. At least nothing that's being reported.
  12. Protagonist Augur

    You don't understand what is broken and shouldn't be commenting on it. This is not about clicky hate, though it is impacting that. This is a severe and significant break to the threat mechanics of most of EQ, including non-CH heals and runes being almost entirely aggro free now.
  13. Protagonist Augur

    Initial proximity aggro is 100, but while that does demonstrate a break in taunt functionality, it's not the central problem here.

    You seem to have selectively read a few sentences of the bug report and passed summary judgement. What you missed - after the no-target swap, no-aggro taunt, it is next to impossible for heal, buff, or runes to pull aggro from the non-taunting tank. It's extremely exploitable, as it stands right now. It is not a nerf. It is a wide open door to mechanic exploits.
  14. AtabishiWoW Second best guild leader you'll ever have

    There was a very small % of people who even knew about this until your guild decided to start doing it in OW every single day on Mangler. You didn't even find out about it until Selos. You also can't say you were only doing it so it would become known and could get nerfed, considering your guild wouldn't have even been able to do OW naggy/vox half the time without doing this exploit.
  15. Maze Elder

    Can confirm this was never used on Coirnav because he didn't know about it.

    Was there all through classic.
    Aneuren likes this.
  16. Healiez Augur

    Eh I have seen this used by lots of guilds on numerous TLP's tbh. I think more people knew about it then you think. Has been around in various different iterations since motm was a thing. One version of it gets nerfed, then people figure out another way to do it.
  17. AtabishiWoW Second best guild leader you'll ever have

    Did you read what I typed?
  18. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Aneuren likes this.
  19. Relentless Doxxed Grizvok

    Journeymen's Boots
    Shield of the Immaculate

    These are two items that absolutely need a nerf to their threat generation capabilities. One is a beneficial cure and one is a run speed buff, both are instant cast.

    The big problem with nerfing jboots cast time is people use that as one of their must have clicky buffs for bosses and mobs that dispell.

    Shield of Immaculate could easily just have the cast time nerfed, its too overpowered and rare as it is. Perhaps up the drop chance and nerf the cast time as a nice solution for players in classic/kunark.
  20. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Calling for soti nerf, you deserve bad luck.

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