So... Monks.

once again.....we (monks) were neutered by DBG, thanks again guys!!! maybe Paladins can over take us on dps next.

This yanking aggro everytime curse fires is getting old already, last night monks were just tanking trash.. Why on earth isn't there a hate modifier on these fulmination abilities?

Trying to be constructive:

From what I read here, you got 4% damage bump, a huge aggro bump, and other melee dps got a dps nerf.

FD is now very relevant for monks to drop aggro.

This could be interpreted as a desire to close the gap, incrementally, but at a cost for monks, that force you guys to use a core class defining utility ability that had beem rendered almost obsolete by the lack of need of pulling.

That looks like an active game design decision. "You can get the DPS gap diminshed, but you will have to work hard on aggro management for it."

Any monks out there that can pull this off, that is, getting the increased dps while succeeding to manage the aggro increase?

I sort of remember way back that our monk would FD during fights to ensure that he did not take aggro from the tank in the group (group game)

the dps "gap" has FAR been diminshed thank you. The tick that it was was NOT worth having to fd every 12 seconds that it seems we have to do and fd isnt an auto clear cuz with this aggro bump we can get the aggro right back it seems. Cant dps much if having to FD x amount of times during an event. There was hardly ANY dps boost EVEN if we didnt have to flop for half the fight, it would hardly be noticeable.

I've noticed that at 105 raid levels the majority of monks have just given up. There are only two of us actively playing a monk in my guild and probably a total of 5 maybe 6 active monks on the server. With a server routine population of 6-7hundred players, it's pretty sad to see 1% of the population is actively raiding monks.

I've also noticed lots of people wanting to start and play monks but they all quit around the time they realize they are 6k AA away from not being terrible after grinding to 105 and have 10k AA.

That 4% number was just made up out of thin air because I would doubt it's even that high. I didn't save a straight test parse before and after, but if I had to guess based off grouping I'd say 5-8k DPS over the course of a night.

It's basically so pitiful of an upgrade attempt that it's well within the realm of a crit here or there to be not even noticable.

You couple that with the insane aggro that Curse now does ((22% aggro, it fires and now 142% aggro on the mob)) and the DPS loss from trying to drop Aggro and it's either even with the levels before or less. So still getting crushed from all sides and my desire to keep fighting this uphill battle is growing thin.

I appreciate the attempt by the Devs to even look at it, but definitely a swing and miss on this one.

in essence, the jacked over our DPS even more, for the amount of time we ARENT dpsing trying to LOSE aggro. so please non monk classes, all due respect, please refrain from uneducated theories and comments here.

I believe that they did alright with the Monk's should have upped dps a little more. The Aggro is a nice change because we are considered a off tank type class along with the Pally's and Shd's the Avoidance off tank but really we had no way to pull aggro. Really they Should leave the aggro on the Curse but make it where it can be triggered in the AA's.

So you, "off tank", do ya? Do tell the tale. I've got an hour and a half free for some entertainment.

Offtank? Srs?

When I said we tanked, we were doing anniversary raid and ganking aggro then loling tanking trash mobs that die real quick. I would love to know how you offtank raid trash from current content.. Sarnaks in lceanium, goblins during incarnate of droga, Sarnaks during Queen, alchemists during Prince, I absolutely dare you to try and off tank them... without earthforce up would = instasplat... Please don't misrepresent monks ability to tank, it has been neutered since PoP when monks were a decent, piss poor aggro, alternative to plate tanks

If your talking group content, then anyone can tank, and cloth tanks and even zerkers are generally better than monks for the 90% of the time earthforce isn't up

There is no situation where a Monk needs 700,000 points of instant aggro that gets us killed, unless fastest finger on id/fd,, and piss tanks and ressers off no end.

I cannot begin to express how wrong your comment is for my, and everyother monk that I have met, game play. Having to baby our meagre dps abilities, so we stay alive, is not what I consider fun, entertaining, or even useful.

I bet he molo's The Hunter in Lcea... He is an "off tank", right?

Really i never Said if it was Raid or Group but over all when EQ Started we where Considered off tanks and Like you said Since PoP it has been Messed up. Over all this is why monks was given FD also so we can Drop aggro and in Group Content yes anyone can Tank i been Doing it Since i Started the monk in 2003. but in Raid's you need Earth when that Falls you have a 50/50 chance of Lasting depending on if you have healers behind you or not.

Dont forget to auto activate all possible damage skills (auto activate is a nice one )

Implying only warriors are "True Tanks."
Implying Monks are "on par" with Palys and SKs in tanking ability.
Implying Monks "need" a form of taunt.

Implying Monks are and always have been considered "off tanks" and not a 1. Gear free DPS class (that was nerfed away) and then 2. A melee utility class with DPS abilities.

Implying "anyone" can tank.
Implying FD's original "purpose" was aggro removal.
Backing up "need" Earth, from "off tank" to 50/50 chance of survival depending on "healer"...

Servers are up. I was entertained.

The aggro is a crock. I'm fding 4 times as much to shed aggro and it's not enough. You have to FD to shed aggro NOW? I've been living with one finger perpetually over my drop-and-pop key for a long time now. This whole instant no aggro to total aggro just brings up another peeve. Top human athletes can, sometimes, react in a quarter of a second. EQ players should not be expected to play to that standard. Not every flipping minute of every ten minute boss fight. I maintain that any game that allows a fully leveled, full AA, raid-geared melee to die because a mob -- ANY MOB -- decided to take a poke at him, especially with no notice and killed him (or her) faster than an Olympic athlete can blink, let alone hit a hotkey or two, needs a serious bit of work done to it.

You sound like a total noob when you are comparing a Monks dps to a Zerkers dps.

If you wanted a linear pure dps class you should have just played a zerker.

Instead you chose a class with a bunch of extra bells and whistles but you want to do the same dps.

Can't have your cake and eat it too /=.

ya its a silly fix, that really didnt do anything. but here's to hoping its the groundwork for greater things to come. the aggro thing is not as bad as it seems. the random occasional aggro spike sucks, but manageable, not like there is 3 monks on the raid anyway so dont spam your alliance =P

Linear pure dps class my . Two classes have selos run speed in game bards and zerkers. Zerkers have stun and snare at their disposal. Zerkers have a passive self only DI. Zerkers have a self cure or purify. Two classes have passive and activated leech from melee effects zerkers and shadowknights. Nevermind your adps from cry carnage, aura, war crys, dicho, braxi and shared cruelty which while hardly beast or bard level still adds a noticable bump..

The only thing zerkers are pure at is bs just like everyone else who dismisses classes stuff and plays up the I only do one thing card.

really gotta take the nerf bat to zerkers... bring them in line with mortal dps instead of god-like dps. screw you zerks!

Not a single person in these 24 pages has asked to be equal DPS to zerkers. Who else are we going to compare to though? "We should be at least... 6x higher than cleric DPS!" It makes sense to compare against the top.

There are only three classes who should be able to gank aggro - warriors, shadowknights, and paladins. Currently I'm able to consistently pull aggro off of these folks without much effort, which means they need to put more effort in. I could understand it if we were putting out 1.5 mil dps - but we're simply half of the top DPSer, in ideal conditions. Every other class that can out-DPS us isn't pulling the same aggro because of it. And now we're even lower, considering we have to FD/ID to keep from dying. Our alliance is useless now, since it will gank full aggro upon fulmination.

I'm fine with ganking aggro. As I said earlier, it's a goal of mine. But to be able to do it with autoattack + mash is silly. To be able to do it without putting up substantial numbers is ridiculous.