so after the shock TBL.. what is playerbase thoughts?

Which brings us all to the crux of EVERY arguement here on the boards.

Yall bring "other games" up soo much it boggles my mind on why your even in EQ thread warrior'ing against every single aspect about the game itself .. Rather then actually playing those other games ?

This is everquest. No one forces yall who hate every aspect of the game to play it. To borrow your own words there are "other games" out there, I would not know what they are however as I'm too busy loving everquest .. and busting stuff up in game progression wise that yall complain about.

I still bought the expac in spite of misgivings about it and apparent theme that won't work with my schedule. It also got bought for alts, since the box crew that got dusty through EoK and RoS is now the primary play focus as opposed to actually grouping. I can't access where everyone is at currently so *shrug*. There are plenty of holes in past expac achievements to do and the new AA will help.

meh, TBL is ok i guess .. the bridges in stratos suck but this is better than no expacs, so yay TBL

Overall i like the new expansion, my biggest dislike is the need for a solid group to progress anywhere. My family plays ,4 of us, but we do not have a solid tank. I normally end up in that role. While i can handle up to the yellow cons ,(singles) . The reds just hit too hard and fast for my ac/avoidance as a chain class.

Its not hating every aspect of the game, it is missing things that you used to be able to do in EQ. My playstyle varies dependant on when I'm playing and who I'm playing with, sadly a lot of those playstyles EQ no longer suports.

I don't play any other games other than EQ, I dabble once or twice a year when i get bored of EQ with EQ2 (well it doesn't cost anything) and after a couple of days remember why I don't play it.

This expansion is different to recent ones, this expansions forces you to do progression. Normally the only zone which is locked is the final zone if any at all. Now don't get me wrong I enjoy quests, but I'd rather do them because I want to rather because than I have to! I miss doing quests for illusions, skipping quests because they only give melee rewards, or going out of my way to get something done because it gives me a cool reward for the char I play.

I miss solo content, I created the wizzy 18 years ago because I play weird hours sometime and there maybe no one around. This expansion there is sod all for solo/molo players. So yeah when I log in 2 or 3 in the morning it is frustrating that I cannot do anything in the newest expansion. Instead I Take my frustrations out on Fennin and Xegony when when I find them up! Last night was HoH trials!

I'd argue from the perspective of player time vs dev time, the evolving items are the #1 feature in TBL. Whether that's a good thing or not is debatable, but I know I'll probably buy another month of subscription in TBL purely because of the evolving items slowing down my progress.

Incorrect. My 3rd berserker has zero progression done. And he literally has access now to every zone in game by 2 different methods.

1. Anyone can campfire into any zone in TBL at any time you place a campfire thus negating any / all progression to enter a zone right there.

2. Chamber of Tear's mission grants EVERYONE who beats it a magical clicker, that allows you to teleport into any zone in TBL by choice .. And again this also by passes ALL progression.

So can you tell me why you feel your forced to do any progression what so ever ?

EDIT: Unless your just kinda upset that they locked the new dicho behind progression of your character ? Or that the only way to make your toons more powerful now is via the progression ? (And this is kind what I feel when I read most people upset about the progression of TBL type threads / posts .)

Thee most powerful grp gear armor in game right now is literally made by players Adamant Trade Skilled armor is WAAY better then T2 grp armor right now. And absolutely nobody needs progression to buy that stuff out of the bazaar ..

Best tank aug in the game right now is an 80ac player made aug ..

There are literally 2 different ways to enter any zone in TBL ..

So please tell me why anyone feels they are locked behind progression for TBL how bout dat ? LMFAO

This isn't completely correct. You can't click the lamp and go to zones you aren't flagged for exactly, you have to visit them first, and the instance zones don't count.

I'm not sure if you can camp fire in and cheese it that way to get the lamp to work (but the lamp doesn't go to Esianti either, so, still not completely correct), but if you haven't visited the actual zone it does tell you that you can't port to it.

Yep you can easily campfire into any zone (thus completing requirment of the lamp) and then get the lamp ..

Bingo you are now able to 100% bypass progression if your only goal is to get toons into any individual zone in TBL.

EDIT: Tho its true it does not allow you to go to Esianti once you have campfired into any zone in TBL .. you are then able to click out of said zone into corrosponding zones.

For instance, fire into Maeratas .. Get lamp .. Click lamp into Maeratas (it works) now click zone out point and BAM .. your in Esianti.

EDIT : I mean out of to lower zones. Example Maeratas --> Esianti then Palace of Embers --> ash .. an such.
(edited twice my apologies.)

That is 100%, as I've done it.

really?
isn't

(the part you did quote but ignore in order to make your statement look viable)
quite on target actually?

Don't get me wrong:
I like the way how tradeskills have been re-introduced suring EoK and made viable since.
I was doing tradeskills before, but never "with a vengeance" and it coerced me into doing those TS-quests to get my artisan's prize and keep won working them to get some extra stats.
We have had ample "warning" (in non-verbal form) but also enough incentive that tradeskills are worth doing again - noone can really complain much there, except perhaps of "having" to go back to grey mobs and mass-slaughtering them because the low-level playerbase is of courtse no longer there.
.
However, i found that i am not "hardcore" enough to actually do every research recipe for example, so i live with an "above-300 but not maxed" Artisan's prize so far. Yes i do have my limits on playtime and my own set of priorities; while i like to work for my stuff and try to keep myself well-geared, there is that point for me where RL (and other desires) get in the way of making my WAR "the" all-out-maxed char" and wher ei feel that the extra effort required does - for me! - not justify the return/reward anymore.
While i DO go back occasionally to do a few combines (can't thank Drewie enough for providing the list of missing recipes), i generally do very much prefer to "simply" spend the time with my friends actually doing (most often killing some) stuff - even if it's "just" picking up shinies.
I like the incentive way far better than the "force" or "railroading" way, i.e. TS are imo better done than progression in TBL, despite the fact that i find it pretty ridiculous that every sheet of armor-material needs 4 of those essences and that they only drop.off every 3rd or so mob so far (or even less often, i'd have to check to be precise there).
I do however also think that the unlocking by past achievements CAN be considered somewhat overboard. Where i find the explorers relatively ok (a timesink still, but mostly doable in several short parts before logging), the hunters can be a different thing (i did not check exactly yet which hunters it is that are required or the mob spawn intervals for them because what dropped so far of these items was given to the group-geared fellowship member because for that char it was the best upgrade which means this is nothing but a tentative statement yet).

erm.. excuse me.
But... weren't YOU the one mentioning WoW and suggesting that people who are not as happy with some part of EQ as you are should rather go and play that instead? i am quite sure i read that, in a quite offensive tone to boot...
And now you have the nerve to blame me for comparing EQ to other games YOU mentioned? wow... just.. wow!

Where you are happy to suggest to every dissatisfied person to just turn their back on EQ and stop complaining, i am here to make the game a better one (for me of course, and people whoi think like me - there's more than you allow for!) by pointing out flaws and even suggesting oftentimes how that could (or imo should) be changed/improved.
While i want to give feedback so EQ can retain it's players, you are happy to see them (and their revenue) gone.
Which hurts EQ more? Where are you constructive with your "go play other games" statement? i fail to see that.

I guess i just should stop even trying to have a serious discussion with you *sad, so sad!*

And to get to chamber of tears in the first place you have to complete the flagging, so for most people your route is not workable unless you happen to be in a fellowship that is comprised of people who are already flagged. The clicky is there to speed things up for people who have done the flagging, not for those who have not. Technically what you are suggesting is an exploit if you follow Ngreth's logic, and could earn you a suspension or a ban.

Please don't give unrealistic "advice", it is zero help to people who are stuck.

Yinla's statement is only incorrect if you equate the "you" she used with "for every char" which she did not say.
However, what you go on describing is true (for now at least, until they fix this loophole too as someone suggested already will most likely be done), but is only true for boxes or people who NEVER play outside their fellowship.
And really, who would that be?
So i think it were safe for Yinla to say that every PLAYER *has* to do progression at least once (if he constantly plays with his fellowship) to three times (if he boxes) if he wants to do anything beyond Stratos in TBL. *and they call ME nitpicking!*

And the clicker you mentioned:
I am not at that point yet myself - i dunno how viable it would be for a live player with his main to do that mission "by himself" or "with a pickup group from general" like those who aren't in a top-raiding guild have to for certain steps along the way - but:
I have lost my clicky into Trials of smoke - it simply poofed at some point.
Are you sure that a char bypassing progression the way you describe it as "viable" will actually get to hang onto that clicker for long?

How about this explanation to your question:
Because we are, what you seem not to give us credit for, real persons with a real life.
"We" do not always have people in our fellowship on at the same time as us - and those persons then (at least 3 of them) WOULD STILL have had to do the progression in order to bypass it for us the way you describe, wouldn't they?
So, in oprder to be less of a burden and to be SOMEWHAT more independant from our friends ("we" do not want to be a burden to them forever now, do we?), yes we HAVE to do it.
With every character we regularly play too. *geez*

No, my progressive spells did already start out at level3.
"only way to make chars more powerful is through progression" - i thought you said above that no, TS armor is the best in game and all progression can be bypassed? What am i missing here or are you, as i read it, actually contradicting yourself here again?
And if you do indeed feel what you decribe from about what people are complaining about, then you simply did not read thoroughly enough. I for one haven't read anyone claiming that progression was bad because it stood in the way between you and better gear/more power, but because of the way it has been implemented (going back and forth in tiers, overtuned in part even in the eyes of a member of and with the resources of RoI and so on...).
In short again: reading again before making comments helps! *facepalm*

Do not place your own lack of .. onto others please. That makes you look very much egotistical. Not saying you are .. Just saying it appears to ..

Just because you have issues progressing in game does not mean your friends do or guild mates do ..

That's pretty much code for:

"Not my problem. Sorry, don't care".

And why should they care? If you have schedule issues or are not with a solid crew, this expac was not made for you. Some of us have already accepted that. My (free and worth exactly that) advice to you is find fun elsewhere. Either in other parts of the game or doing other things all together. Maybe make some alts or something. *shrug* There are millions of other game titles out there. Many of them are worth a play.

Look, unless you live in the I95 east coast megalopolis, statistically EQ is going to screw you. Its gotten small enough were the bulk of the players remaining are EST working regular 9 to 5-ish business hours and have "normal" weekend days off. The game revolves around EST because that is where the majority of the people live. If you live in Alaska, Montana or Wyoming...yah... no one is going to care to accommodate you. If you work 3pm to midnight with Wednesday and Thursday off, yah no one is going to do much for you either. Move, fix your schedule or do without. IE: you have to make your play fit in with the majority of the players which live in EST because its easier for them to tell you to go kicks rocks than try to accommodate you. Or find a server that has some people in your situation. Lots of luck with that. Maybe you can find the one Australian who still plays.

This is the Internet. No one cares. If you stray too far from the herd, the herd assumes leave you to be eaten by the lions. Yes, its blunt and stark, but why bother sugar coating reality. The EQ dev team would rather have this game die than deviate too much further from what they consider to be their formula. It works for them and keeps the bulk of their customers happy.

Just be sure to cancel your subs if you don't find what DBG is currently offering acceptable. Voting with your wallet is the only way companies listen. Personally the little bit of TBL I have gotten to do has been satisfying. It makes me wish I could play more of it other than on vacation time.....

Is it really considered controversial that to get the best stuff, one has to do the content? I'm seriously not grasping the counter position

No its not code for anything.

Its as basic as it gets its verbatium how it is..

People on these threads like to act like the sky is falling if they can't box something or anything of that nature. When the problems not the content is not boxable. Its the player's fault they know not the classes well enough to utilize them properly when faced with actual content that is current in new launch expacs.

So they try to portray it off like just cause they themselves lack the ability / resources to do what they want .. E V E R Y B O D Y .. has the exact same issues / lack of .. skill / resources / time to play / name it place it here ..

When the issue is theirs alone .. If the same people who cry foul all the time on these baords posted under their toons actual names (some do 95% do not when complaining Hi new members always ..) We could see what class .. what guild .. what server .. to better put their "issues" in perspective. Example..

New Member A .. This contents just soo sick.. GAWDS .. I am unsubbing all 1200 of my accounts that keep this entire game afloat .. an you will ALL RUE .. the day RUE IT I TELL YOU .. that I pulled my money off of this game !!

Well doing some research .. finding out that they play on Zek .. or some other incredibly LOW population wise server would automatically show that the reason being they have ZERO friends / resources from which to pull intel / pool toons with .. is in an of itself .. Not a content designed flaw .. But rather they choose not to leave a low population server in favor of greener / more populated pastures ..

Alot .. can be solved if people are just 100% honest with themselves and post all relevant information. Then we as a game overall population won't have to RUE .. the day !

/cheers

Nailed it.. Best post of thee entire thread !