Sleeper's Tomb on Phinigel - How does it work? and other Sleeper's Tomb questions

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Prathun, May 16, 2016.

  1. Prathun Developer

    Everything you always wanted to know about Sleeper's Tomb on the Phinigel server, but were afraid to ask.

    Q: Which version of the Sleeper's Tomb will the Agent of Change offer?
    A: The version of the Sleeper's Tomb that the Agent of Change will offer is whichever version the server is using when the instance is requested. If Kerafyrm has not been woken, the instance will contain the warders and a dozing Kerafyrm. If Kerafyrm has been woken, the instance will contain the ancients and no Kerafyrm. In the corner case where the server wakes the Sleeper during the duration of an instance, the instance will remain in its pre-awakened state until the instance expires.

    Q: Can Kerafyrm be woken from within an Agent of Change Sleeper's Tomb instance?
    A: No. You can clear the Agent of Change instance of Sleeper's Tomb including all four warders and not wake Kerafyrm.

    Q: Do you need a key to request and/or enter an Agent of Change Sleeper's Tomb instance?
    A: You do not need a Sleeper's Key to request the instance. You do need a Sleeper's Key to enter the instance.

    Q: Can Kerafyrm be killed?
    A: I'm going to go ahead and say no, even though we've been proven wrong in the past.

    Q: When the Sleeper is woken, I heard a developer needs to be there to spawn him. Is that true?
    A: Wait, what? No. How do these rumors get started? :eek: The issue was with Sleeper's Tomb not automatically transitioning to its post-Kerafyrm awakened dataset. This should be completely automated going forward, beginning with the update on 5/18/2016.

    Q: Is there any chance you would reconsider how Sleeper's Tomb works on Phinigel, and allow the raid instances to choose between PRE and POST versions at time of instance creation?
    A: No, we have no plans to give any server access to post and pre-awakened Sleeper's Tomb simultaneously.

    Thanks, and let us know if you have any other questions!
    Iila and Progress like this.
  2. Progress Augur

    Sounds like it will be fun!
  3. GrugSA Augur

    Challenge accepted
    Prathun likes this.
  4. Taladir Augur

    Thank you for being on the ball with these details and informing the community in a clear and timely manner!
  5. taliefer Augur

    bad idea, but I can least understand the logic behind it
  6. Glowerss Augur

    Understandable, but I must admit I was hoping the instances would stay pre awakened for awhile regardless of what happened to the non instanced version.

    I have a hunch certain individuals are going to wake him up ASAP just to screw everyone else over though, which will be a real shame.
  7. Choya New Member

    So 1 guild will get the 1.0 loot, then as soon as they think another guild has enough keys to start farming there, then that guild will wake the sleeper to screw the rest of the server.
  8. ZeeK Elder

    Yay for no key being required for instanced ST! Hopefully no one is naughty and wakes the sleeper.
  9. Choya New Member

    dont need key to request instance, do need a key to enter
  10. verynewname New Member

    So on a server where everyone is supposed to get the ability to experience all content, realistically only ONE guild will get to experience ST 1.0. Awesome. Great job DBG. You messed up. Again. Thanks for your time. You guys are real top notch.
  11. Finley Augur


    You need a key to enter the instance
  12. Popanasty Journeyman

    Really?? DBG couldn't come up with ANY better reason for the other guilds to not get screwed over? I thought this server was for people to be able to experience all the raids..... Thanks DBG, but you guys have go to stop making these poor decisions.
  13. Toodles Elder

    Think you guys should have done a little bit more looking into how the phinigel community felt about this... because i cannot see the majority of people being happy about this.I think you have completely missed the reason people started playing/subbing on this server.

    Its happened on every progression server so far, that 1 guild will grief the rest of the server by choosing to awaken the sleeper as soon as anyone gets close to farming ST1.0

    DBG you had so many options to correct this with phinigel.
    -- Could have just let instances stay the same regardless of openworld
    --Give people the choice on which to go into after openworld is awakened (make a quest where you turn in your sleepers key to get ancient sleepers key etc to request old/new instance)
    --Could have made the instance reflect it in a timelocked manner... X weeks after Sleeper awakened openworld, instance change over.
    --Sleeper cannot be awakened for X weeks after the release of Velious

    It should be our choice what to raid in an instance, not the choice of another guild...

    You really failed to think this one all the way through and just went for the simplest and easiest way out... it just feels so lazy... feel like you have really lost touch with the community that you've worked so hard to bring back.
  14. Ducreux Augur

    Woah, woah, woah. A drama causing thread by DBG that wasn't posted on a Friday at 6PM PST?

    Now I've seen everything.
    DirtyWhistle and PathToEternity like this.
  15. Thellonious Journeyman

    Sure, let's start with the entire post.

    At the core of this post we have the lone piece of information everyone has been waiting to hear with baited breath. And, oh joy, we finally have it. For myriad reasons, not everyone will get a chance to wake the sleeper. Before we debate whether they are good or bad, let us take a moment to simply reflect that in doing this, DBG has clearly backtracked on its original promise that this server would offer a chance for everyone to "experience" content. There is no rationale being that could honestly (seriously, HONESTLY) say that they think more than 2 guilds will get a chance to try sleeper 1.0 on Phinigel. In reality*, most likely, only 1 will. (*note, I will hearken back to this concept some of you have heard of called 'reality.' Reality will be the place where we go to avoid pretending that certain people will behave in a certain way because it's nice or kind. It's where we'll go when we want to talk about the PRACTICAL implications of a decision.)

    Let's talk justifications
    Q1) Sleeper's is a unique zone that has the unique 1.0 -> 2.0 concept, and that's only possible if there is an action that changes 1.0 -> 2.0
    A1) That's true. I guess I wonder why, in 2016, we need that 1.0 -> 2.0 change to occur after only 1 guild has done the content. We all know what happens now. It's not the 2000's anymore. Can we at least agree that unless you truly believe one guild's actions ought to influence the entire server's experience this seems kind of silly?

    Q2) Part of the excitement of the progression servers is the race to things only a finite number of people can have.
    A2) It seems to me that the value of sleeper's isn't so much in the items, however, but in the experience. The pixels are great, but let's evaluate both sides of the coin here. On the one hand: by restricting access to 1.0, you rob the majority of the server the chance to waken the sleeper. On the other: by loosening the restrictions (perhaps having a finite date in which the sleeper auto awakens) you rob the people racing to get there first the chance to feel "elite." I really don't want to diminish how much that feeling elite can mean to someone playing Everquest. It really is a valid concern. I just wonder why a decision like this is catering to the 10-20% of the server's raiding population. There are 10-15 REAL guilds here. Some are better than others, but all of them may have the potential to actually kill Sleeper 1.0 if given enough time to farm keys. Is it worth taking that away from them? Reasonable minds could differ.

    Q3-XXX) I'm sure there are plenty of other justifications that someone could offer. This post is getting lengthy, so I'll just keep it to 1 and 2.

    What could we do instead?
    1) Have the sleeper officially and irreversibly awaken a certain number of days after the first time all four warders are killed (1 week, 4 weeks [1/3 of the xpac], 12 weeks [original xpac length]. In the meantime, the open world will respawn on whatever number of days it would have had the sleeper not been awakened even if all four warders are killed. This would cause the instanced versions to remain 1.0.

    2) Screw making a 1.0 -> 2.0 adjustment. Keep it 1.0 forever! Seriously, I know this is going to get a lot of pushback, but WHO CARES??? Unless you firmly believe that the scarcity of items or experiences is the most important aspect of this game (why are you playing on Phini I would ask!), there is no real reason to restrict sleeper 1.0 to so few people.

    I really was NOT expecting the promise that lured me to this server to be carried out. Honestly, it was never more than a glimmer of hope. Frankly, I probably wouldn't have spent the time writing a post that I KNOW will fall on deaf ears for the people that make these decisions. But then I got to the much less crucial information included afterwards. It really irritated me. Honestly, just embarrassing to include. See below:


    Explain to me why this is in this post. Why is this even remotely relevant? If we needed a key to enter, why the heck would we care whether we need a key to request the instance. Seems like inane babble to camouflage the fact that the top of the post gives us information that everyone NOT in AOS will be dismayed to read.

    See my comments above re: useless information. Honestly, do you think including an emoji makes ANY of this post less irritating? If anything, it makes it seem even MORE detached from reality.

    Don't put this stupid crap at the end of a post and pretend like you have no dang clue that the important stuff is going to hurt the experiences of so many of your paying customers.

    TLDR:
    I was expecting nothing different than the contents of this post. Honestly, it has ALWAYS been like this. One guild has more playtime / capacity and will farm their keys faster and more efficiently. They will then farm until they fear that other people might devalue the pixels they have accumulated and waken the sleeper. I was fortunate enough to play on a server where there was a long lasting agreement to NOT wake the sleeper (Al Kabor) that lasted until the last weekend of that server's existence. I know it's possible in an ideal world, but, let's face it, we do NOT live in that world. The reality of this post is: "as soon as the top guild feels that it might have its farm threatened, the sleeper will be awakened." How does this comport with the ideals of Phinigel as a server on which everyone capable would experience all the content? More specifically, how does this comport with the notion that everyone would get to experience waking the sleeper (the fact that caused me to join up on this server in the first place). I just don't understand how this policy reflects the mission of Phinigel as they were communicated to the population at large.
    Choya likes this.
  16. Ducreux Augur

    FWIW as a member of AoS I think this is a dumb decision too.

    I have no idea what our leadership's plans are for waking/not waking the Sleeper, given this latest news, but even if we chose not to I imagine it's likely another guild leader on the server would go ahead and do it so they could claim they technically "beat" Velious first. There are just too many guilds on this server capable of clearing the clearing the content to actually broker some kind of no-kill agreement.
    Thellonious likes this.
  17. bored monk Journeyman

    It sounds like a lot of people were planning on waking the sleeper, and are now upset they won't be able to go back into their pre-awakened sleeper instance.
  18. Warrior007 Augur

    I'm the leader of OGC, and OGC has no plans to awaken the Sleeper.

    I'd actually like to see all guilds enjoy the vintage variant of ST, as not many saw it originally. A congregate effort by the entire server to kill Kerafyrm in ideally a later expansion would be pretty cool.
    Batbener, Finchy, Dilf and 2 others like this.
  19. Finley Augur

    DBC will be happy to work with the rest of the server.
  20. Horathmir Elder

    Quoting this for posterity. Vegas betting books has OGC waking the sleeper as soon as it has the keys for it. AoS at a close second. So I am going to quote this here and when you [OGC] wakes him we can refer back to this post.
  21. Soon Augur

    ^
    This guy is probably from FI.