SK's still need love

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Zantor, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Allayna Augur

    Purity of Death AA - 3 min reuse.
  2. Sithsonn Elder

    Idk Zantor, guild i came from had like an easy 7 sks in raid at all times xD, thing is 1 sk can do the same job as those 7 sks.
    Krazzi likes this.
  3. Sithsonn Elder

    I think raids should just be 46 sks and 8 bards but hey what do i know (; and i mean you have seen open raids Zantor, you cant even play your sk cause theres like 10 of em in the raid
    kizant likes this.
  4. Angahran Augur

    [quote="Seldom, post: 3814469, member: 404628"SK is the favorite group game and raid knight currently for obvious reasons. This has been the case since CoTF/TBM. If Paladins were the blatant flavor of the month Knight/tank for multiple expansions, numbers would look quite a bit different.[/quote]

    I'd love to hear your reasons why you think SKs are the favoured knight.

    And you are honestly saying SKs are 'flavour of the month' ?
    What alternate world are you living in ?
  5. Cadira Augur

    Can't tell if this is a troll post.

    The entire community seems to believe they are the flavor of the past...2-4 years.

    They can massively out passive heal, out tank (reavers bargain and passive healing) out agro, and out dps paladins. Only reason I can imagine raid guilds wanting paladins is because splash/stun is necessary on some raids current and presumably going forward, there is a shortage of "good" shadow knights for raid guilds, and they can fill in for a group healer if you're short on druids or shaman for the night.

    Are you living in an alternate world?
  6. Seldom Augur

    Hmm, feel like I already answered this question in the very post you quoted. I’ll repeat for you though just in case not trolling:

    Of the only 10 raid guilds to defeat all TBL, there is a tie on active Paladins/Shadowknights: 35 each.
    With the next 10 guilds that are currently stuck on the final raid: 32 active Paladins and 44 Shadowknights

    If you go below the top 20 raid guilds, the amount of Shadowknights to Paladins becomes laughable. I have many other reasons I could state, but if you aren’t able to discern my logic from the above there is definitely no point in covering the other intricacies.

    I spend a great deal of time in the alternate world of Norrath. Much more than most. Thanks for asking :). Anyhow, back off of this thread that was created by a Shadowknight. Just chimed in to address the false assertions of Paladins being the more popular raid tank, which hasn’t been the case for many expansions now. On live or TLP. Toodles
  7. Angahran Augur

    And clear proof the poster knows nothing about SKs.
    We do not passively heal anything!
    All our healing requires a target, which usually means we are taking damage.
    Paladins can passively heal.

    Reaver's bargain (which was nerfed BTW) is good while it lasts, but leaves us with no mana/end, which on a raid with a 5 minute OOC timer basically means we are out of the fight.

    Sure, our agro is good, but so is Paladins, they have bitched and complained until they got the same agro tools as SKs for the last several expansions.

    I honestly don't consider myself a DPS class, if we are that much better than Paladins then they need some help, we should be roughly equivalent.

    Paladins are ESSENTIAL for numerous raids for their splash and healing.
    There are NO raids where anyone says, "We can't do this event, we have no SKs."
    Krazzi likes this.
  8. menown Augur

    And what % of a DPS class should a SK's DPS be? This may also be a question for warriors.
    Ssdar and Sancus like this.
  9. Cadira Augur

    Except, ya know, the toon I consider my second main is an SK.


    Yeah, because being able to heal yourself when you're at 100% is real useful for Paladins. No, dumbo, I am referring to passive healing WHEN YOU ARE TAKING DAMAGE. Taps/passive life leach abilities like MC, epic, self buff procs, and 1% from your aa per swing (combined with the amazing dps sks put out to make it all the more insane) heavily outdo the healing a paladin can do on themselves while tanking. When healing sks on raids, most times the sk will heal himself for twice as much as I healed him for (Such as sk:2mil, me: 1mil). For our paladins, I can do about 33-50% more than the paladins do to themselves (Me: 1.5mil, paladin: 1mil). Sure, paladins can heal a group in a pinch, and that's great and all, but they are not built to just be ideal healers for a group...They tank.

    And Paladins have no equivalent. I've never ever seen/heard of a raid geared sk succumbing to the negative trade off of this ability. Hell, my group geared Sk never even hit the 20% mana/end. Is your gear so god awful you actually have to worry about that? No wonder you don't realize how OP sks are. Oh and look under class tab for an aa called "Thought Leach" it's pretty useful for that situation. Mod rods?

    This cost you all of your credibility. It's ironic you believe I know nothing about sks (although I have a lot to learn) yet you know nothing about Paladins. They get two ae stuns with massive cool downs, and single target spells with cast times. That's it. You get two on 45s cds, a stream on 45, spell with ae hate on 30s cd, ae tap with hate on 6s cd, instant cast terrors, etc. Did i miss anything? No, seriously, sks have so many damned agro abilities I probably missed a couple. I have no idea where you get this idea they have the same agro tools as paladins.

    Try turning attack on. Or getting a decent weapon and aa's. Warriors and SKs blow Paladins out of the water on dps. It is pleasing you believe they should be roughly equivalent, though.

    This is the first thing you've said that's accurate. What you need to realize is, Paladins come to raids to tank. They also have essential abilities that make them useful for surviving event mechanics, but if that's all you are good for and they can't do the primary role they are going to get bored. Don't misunderstand, Paladins can tank pretty great. The problem is the disparity between the two knights is unbalanced.

    All this said and done, I believe all classes should get some unique but not game breaking abilities next expac, especially since we got garbage for aa's this year. This includes sks! Some of the ideas in this thread sound great.
    Seldom, Dracolindus, Maedhros and 2 others like this.
  10. blinder Journeyman

    Yikes, it's absolutely clear you do not know Paladin's are severely lacking in the aggro department.
  11. Allayna Augur

    There was so much misinformation in this post.

    Passive healing, as in you don’t have to cast to be healed. You have self buffs, innate AA, epic and mortal coil that amplify this to the point of not needing to cast a single tap.

    I was not aware that we had the same aggro tools, can you please point out which spell line I can load multiple of for non-dmg unlimited target AE aggro? No? How about the DD version? No again? Cool, third try, how about the spell equivalent of taking health from all surrounding mobs and healing the paladin? (The paladin equivalent of this would be an AE 0 target limit stun, it doesn’t exist btw). Alright, fine, you must have been speaking about aggro mod, nope wait SK = 25% Pal = 15%. Surely you mean AA aggro then? Paladin 2 AE aggro abilities on 1.5 min reuse. SK 2 AE, one frontal on 45s timers.
    As far as the last several got an upgraded alliance? Harmonious? Cool, Paladins did not.

    Dps, hands down better than a paladin and in burst, on par with pure melee. This is versus live or undead targets.

    What SK actually goes out of mana and endurance from popping reavers? (BTW an additional disc not afforded to Paladins)

    Was there any factual information in your post?
  12. Laronk Augur

    I play a Paladin main, I'd love an AE agro spell in addition to our two 1.5 minute recast ae stuns.

    As far as healing; I don't think we can just replace druids in a pinch, I think paladins are far better healers than druids. As group content goes paladins are good healers.

    Now if we talk about DPS, SK vs Paladin is not even close. Heck our alliance for some reason is 1 million vs the 2 everyone else gets. I don't really mind the DPS problem because I have a ton of raid utility in heals, splashes, target of target heals.
  13. Whulfgar Augur

    I've not seent this lvl of ownage in quite some time good sir.
    Allayna and blinder like this.
  14. Livvy_CT Lorekeeper

    I'd love to hear your reasons why you think SKs are the favoured knight.

    And you are honestly saying SKs are 'flavour of the month' ?
    What alternate world are you living in ?[/quote]

    I swear you’re trolling...
  15. MrDudeGuy New Member

    SKs suck! MOAR BUFFS PLS!
  16. p8aa Elder

    Paladin DPS is closed to warrior DPS, be it burst (1 min ish mark) or sustained DPS, in tanking groups with no group ADPS support (where 99 % of tanks are in raids). We are talking of an average advantage of + 50 k DPS in favor of the warrior in both situations. That feels right balance there as warrior DPS should be slightly better than paladin one.
  17. Raccoo Augur

    Are you saying paladin dps is close to warrior dps? Have you watched Zaknaffein stream?
  18. Maedhros Augur

    This is like the EQ version of a Flat-Earther..
    I am exceptional at dps as a paladin. During times when paladin dps was actually OP, I topped parses that were live, such as Herald of Oration or whatever, in the Valley of Lunanyn raid and if it was an undead raid usually I was untouchable. This was what, 6 or 7 years ago now, back when I was in Silent Redemption, so its not like I am talking about topping parses in an open raid; there were quality dps classes in attendance.
    This is ancient history. Paladin dps is abysmal.
    In current EQ, the dps potential of the 3 tank classes is heavily slanted away from the paladins, with sks and especially warriors being able to produce obnoxiously high parses.

    The only reasonable answer to why you are only out-dpsing any paladin, even a great one, by 50k is because you are sitting there with sword and board on your warrior and using a Wurmslayer or something and barely pushing any buttons outside of auto-attack.
    Ssdar, blinder, Cadira and 1 other person like this.
  19. Dracolindus Journeyman

    There's nothing I can add that Cadira, Maedhros and Allayna haven't already said, except to say that the ignorance of the classes a few people have commented on here about is just … breathtaking.
  20. p8aa Elder

    Yes, i'm saying this. And some parses have been posted in the tank section of the forum. I don't need to watch the stream of someone to know how I should DPS as a warrior. I posted my DPS guide strat on these board, and this was in line with what others are doing.

    Yeah, Maedhros, paladin DPS is abysmal, like you tried to claim it a few years ago, posting SK and Warrior DPS parses of warriors and SK in melee groups with full ADPS support, and comparing it to paladins in tank groups with no ADPS. If paladin DPS was "abysmal", why devs reduced it too when they nerfed the DPS of the 3 tank classes ? I admit seing your cries after this patch was very delicious haha, seing how you nerfed yourself.
    And no, the parses I posted was with a raid 2Hander, and burning the right warriors DPS discs. And been confirmed by some other warrior in some earlier thread.
    I'm laughing in advance to see the DPS parses of your warriors in melee DPS group with full ADPS to try to prove that i'm bad, lol.

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