Insta-cast terrors would be nice. If we are going to get stuck kiting, not having to stop to cast would be a boon on those mobs that we don't want to damage with insta-cast dots. And yes, up the hate on those terrors to be in line with our brethren.
Yeah think most agree that SK aggro is lacking atm and terror lines need a boost. Our best aggro is AE aggro and not always good to use them spells / AA's and the spell ones get interrupted way to much. And insta cast terror line would be awesome for kiting.
I agree about an instantly cast terror line, but it needs to be effective as well and instant. I wouldn't call our terror line terribly effective right now.
The problem is getting an ability that would be a real raid role would have to be significant enough that it is shooting the moon on raids
Why shouldn't sk's be allowed in the 2nd tier of dps as tank when they are part necromancer? Especially now that swarming was reigned in as the reason they were told no to dps for 6 years. When paladins are part cleric and are completely square in the 2nd or even 1st tear camp when it comes to healing and curing. SK came from war and necro so their dps could take a drastic jump over pally and war and still be well behind pure dps and not cause issues. Not the only option but to call it some bad request when sks are part necro when you guys heal and cure better then healers in some regards since you are part cleric is kinda funny. Nevermind unnegated slows alla stuns curing mez or silence must be nice.
You are forgetting that we live in a world of game logic. So Paladins tanking the same as us, healing nearly as well as priests and curing even better, and tending to be able to deliver more dps than us is not really a problem. And let's not forget that Rangers are half druid, so makes perfect sense they do far beyond us in dps as part necros. And of course, the ever popular topic of Magicians not only tanking better than us, but doing far more dps as well. So well in fact they had to disable them for PoW, put in nasty raid mechanics for using pet tanks, etc. No, I am not calling for any nerfs here so don't get that started. Think the Shadow Knights just need to get with how this game is really designed. Going SK is agreeing to play at a severe handicap in many regards for the challenge. If you don't like it, go roll something else.
That's quite a flawed statement as it isn't the druid side for us that makes rangers stomp you in the dirt for DPS. It's the warrior side, but then that doesn't fit your whine does it? Ya, that ~30k spell dps is really what makes the difference between us and sks when doing ~150k. That darn druid side so over powered.
This makes no sense at all. Sks just have to agree to live with a handicapped class? are you serious? Why cant we play a useful class instead of just taking it in the rear? I read some stupid things but man this takes the cake.
Tanks filling the role of a full time dps class? Interesting concept. Perhaps sks are too used to godmode.
Tanks filling the role of a full time priest class? Oh wait lololol. You've missed out on a lot, Shiftie, if you still think SKs are close to what they were in VoA and prior. There does need to be some changes to shadowknights in terms of aggro when we're no longer the premiere AE aggro tank, or even able to hold a candle to the other two in aggro generation. DPS we're rather on par with two other tanks that fill other roles leagues ahead of us is probably what he was getting at. I think a huge problem is Devs see that we can mem so many aggro spells, or so many lifetaps, and so many dots that we must be powerful. Which is a load of crap because no shadowknight would be able to do that and do it well enough to be "godmode" in aggro generation, self healing, or dps.
It was tongue in cheek regarding a raid role outside of tanking. Paladin healing needs reigned in. The toolset via spells has gotten too good. Tanks with utility is the core of knights not the current "stances" mindset. The bursts used to be linked, leaving devout and light to their design intent. Burst also had a full spell bar lock out. Now they can be cast with impunity. Add in several othe recent additions to healing and has gotten too far into the priest role. Paladins shouldn't be able to heal others with same efficiency as self healing, and if it is left as is thy need to up the mana costs to bring it back to a burst role to help or stand in briefly not fill tha role completely. Sk dps could go the same route but inferring that they deserve to be t2 dps level when not tanking is a major design problem with no semblance of balance and would ruin what class balance that eq clings to. T2 dps tanking to combat the newly acquired tank dps. It is the equivalent of a dog chasing its tail and there needs to be a more elegan solution to the sk woes. Otherwise it just creates more problems down the road.
So tanks filling the role of full time healers/curers and being able to slow any non immune to stun mob is no problem? Interesting concept. Perhaps pallys have grown to used to dps'ing equal to the other tanks, while curing better than full time healers, while healing the group and themselves as well as full time healers, while cc'ing and slowing very effectively like a full time cc class, with their roots and stuns. Talk about a godmode. Hey pallies are fine but look overthere at that sk they used to swarm hundreds of light blue mobs they are overpowered make sure any dps request is laughed at.
You do realize t2 dps as a raid role is on par with mages monks etc. what then becomes of the group game? The woe is me sks are terrible schtick isn't going to fly. Everyone who plays eq knows how powerful sk really are. Lacking a 2ndary raid role doesn't make the class bad and pretending it does won't get you anywhere. Nor will pointing at paladin healing.
One of the real issues is the development have said before they only see primary roles as relevant, and secondary roles are a bonus but not something they are going to focus on. SK's are tanks first and foremost, in this we do ok as add tanks and when over geared or equal geared to content we can main tank some, with risk. we need a little help in the main tank area in agro to on par with the other 2 tanks so that other classes can react to the mob in the same manner as if the other 2 are tanking. that also goes for when we die, we have to wait on a couple AA(ageless, agro pet, taunt + harmtouch-if taunt works) to get refreshed before we can jump agro again reliably, where the other 2 do not. We got mindless and that is really cool, but only lasts a short amount of time, but does not add agro, just gives us a chance to build it. we have 3 ae agro from AA now, 2 on 45 sec timers and one on a 2 min 30 sec (i believe) and all of them are less than the one pal gets, plus pal keeps doing more hate for 18 sec, and less than war. They help us build agro on raids, but you have to be careful, we started kiting because if you get agro on more than 2-3 you die anyhow. if were main tanking we have to be careful not to grab adds, something wars are learning with their new abilities too. In a fast paced group you can only use one of the 3 per mob, and that is not enough to keep agro. Some SK's will say if you are not tanking 3+ in group game you are doing it wrong, well sometimes people that play pulling classes want to do that, sometimes you don't have a CC'er, and sometimes you don't want to tank more than 3 at a time. I find that I cannot play lazy if I am in a group with my SK with other people, therefore if I want to , I log onto the paladin and stun lock them if they are stunable or agro lock with ease and I can play lazy. SK CAN keep agro, but not as easily and it takes longer to build it up. With this, DPS have to hold back and that makes raids not want to use SK's. In the group game I was having issues with a Ranger I group with out agro'ing me, and after looking at parses they were using all their agro tools because it is also their highest dps. While they were running a risk of getting hit and a merc letting them die, with a war or pal, they don't run that risk. same with wiz mercs on burn. war and pal have no issues with that, but it can be an issue with a SK. Some of that is player style and yes the ranger could change, but why should they have to for 1 of the 3 tanks? As for secondary, the development crew has already stated kiting is not a role, it was never truly intended as a mechanic. we cant heal, so there goes that, we are sort of add control, but only for kiting purposes, as you get more than 2-3 on you in the raid game and your dead without deflection up, and that only leaves DPS or buff utility. The only way to make us more desireable on raids that I can think of is to give us some cool group buffs, or make us get an AA that makes us immune to charm/mez, either or both, and start including adds in that do those. Not in every raid but enough to give at least one to two SK's a place, but make them not do it every 10 sec or something so that if a raid doesn't have an SK they can still burn past or alternate other tanks. I think it would be a cool encounter mechanic to have a main mob then a secondary that has a every 20 sec mez/charm effect to be tanked during the fight.
You are missing the point entirely, I was discussing that this is video game logic and real logic has absolutely no place here. However, if you wish to persist, just how many warrior sides do you figure rangers have?
No tank should ever encroach on DPS class output, but if it were intended for one tank to do more than the other that should be more defined than it is currently. Shadowknights are hurting in aggro generation, and self-healing is being limited because they won't unlink lifetap damage and healing which is creating a bigger and bigger problem because we either heal for nothing or we heal for a huge amount and then we're left waiting on the long recast time. As for a raid role, T'vyl's has potential to be really awesome, if it stacked with Monk synergy, and had 100% accuracy it would be a very nice step towards utility. If we were given more abilities like these for casters to take advantage of, or to debuff the mob to make tanking easier for a short period, etc. We could easily be wanted.
I have tried casting Tvyl's on many of raid mobs, I have yet to see it land on a red con mob, either I can't cast it or it does cast but not land on it yet and on regular named mobs, seems more like a 75% failure rate then success rate. Yet another ability that I got exicted about that turned out to be another dissapointment.
They should turn things like Totc into a reflected heal. If the sk is tanking they get the healing and if the sk isn't tanking it gets reflected to who is tanking. Do that and add a big reflected tap on the same timer as dire. Then add a reflected rune to the normal tap. Give sk a spell damge rune that explodes when x damage is absorbed that either runes or heals or mana restores the group. Then when the big bad boss casts a dd with a mana drain the group gets mana back. You could have it cost enough mana to get extended when cast and when it explodes it costs the full amount in a drain, cursing the sk for helping the group. I still maintain that sk should also get the curse that the brownies had from the sof expansion. Then there are ideas like a new fd that triggers the vortex pull from the sol ro click from the voa monster mission. That severly dots or triggers a dt to the sk if they stay down for more than 2 tics. There are so many avenues that don't require dps.
Its sad shiftie's ideas have been the best in this thread. Reflect taps like dire was.supposed to be to begin with would be awesome
