Why are these two always pitted against each other? I keep seeing that Knights get bettter mitigation, SKs do more DPS than they should in a tank position, blah blah blah. I don’t parse or run numbers or anything like that, but where is this extra mitigation that Knights have? I started and mained an SK. Then I wanted to see what all the fuss was about with Warriors, so made one of those and have been playing him for the past few months. They both tank well; Warrior seems to have an edge up on ST aggro while doing okay with AE aggro, while SK excells in AE and has no issue in ST. SK seems to be a bit more spiky in the health department, but that could be due to all the different sources of incoming heals, whereas the Warrior seems to be more gradual and evened our with incoming damage. The biggest difference I can seem to see between playing the two is that the Warrior has more big boy “oh chit” buttons to save his butt. And while the SK doesn’t have bad defensive via discs/AAs, they just don’t seem near as strong as the Warriors. I’m nowhere near maxed AA on either toon (about mid way i would say), but they seem pretty even as far as tanking goes. Am I looking at this all wrong, did I take the wrong approach when trying to see the issue between the two? Help me understand And just for the record, although I started as an SK but have been playing a Warrior as of late...I’m going to have to flip a coin to see which one I continue to focus more on from here on out.
SK is infinitely more independent. Steady self healing via leech effects and Touches, emergency healing from Leech Touch, Dicho. Self invis & ivu, 7 kinds of FD, snare. Casting boosts their damage. All great stuff. War is the best class in the game at having their hand held. Strongest taking hits if someone else is healing the damage off, strongest tank damage if given appropriate boosting. A particular strength vis a vis raiding is the ability to be nearly fully powered as regards making agro & taking hits, relative to their normal power, very quickly after deaths.
The Warrior's ability to tank is similar to the cleric's ability to heal when compared to an SK (warrior) or Druid (Cleric). In a boxing arrangement, a warrior is far easier to play, especially in setting socials/macros. The Knights require a lot more button pushing and position management. Simply playing one in a group setting will not tip the balance in one direction. All three tanks played by someone who knows their class will do quite well.
Warrior Pros: -Currently enjoy a larger mitigation advantage over Knights than in most eras of Everquest. This is due to the fairly recent Spell Casting Reinforcement nerf which greatly impacted Knight disc uptime -Extremely comfy hitpoint advantage -Shadowknight DPS takes a large plummet if they aren’t able to have 2hander out. Warriors have another excellent DPS option available in dual wield and very often can handle surviving while tanking in this setup. This is especially true if you’re talking average geared/decent tank and not maxed out/excellent tank. In general, Warriors ‘’sustain’’ more DPS -Easier to optimize while boxing, benefits the most from Adps as a norm Overall: The well known preferred raid tank and general go to tank of multi boxers! Shadowknight Pros: Currently come closer to the range of Warrior mitigation power when you factor in Reaver’s Bargain, the only major mitigation ability not shared with the other Knight class. -Superior aggro generation toolkit -Hands down the superior solo/moloer. This is due to the obvious utility of heals, feign death abilities etc. -Can burst out some nice DPS. Damage is extremely respectable if able to maintain keeping 2hand out Overall: The known preferred group tank and Solo-Molo Queen/King! Personally, I recommend you play both if you enjoy tank classes. If time constraints don’t allow, pick whichever you have the most fun with. Both are in a good place
I think you’re reading a little too much into Forum Quest, friend. Most players are pretty happy with their toons and play the game contentedly. Don’t be too distracted by a few trolls like BB2.0 or QQGL battling out the PR campaigns here. A lot of FQ’s worst elements boil down to basic class envy and jealousy. There are pros and cons to all 3 classes. All of them seem to be doing their jobs reasonably well and excelling in certain areas. All of them tend to ask for improvements when expansion times come around or if they fee like things are out of whack. The flavor of the month shifts around from year to year and will probably always do so.
Yeah, warriors have a so larger mitigation advantage over knights that knights cannot MT raid bosses as well as warriors. And it include paladins. For those who didn't figure it, it's ironic.
Are we talking a caster group or a melee group? Bard or enchanter? What are the dps classes available? For example, using an enchanter an SK would be a better choice. While a warrior or paladin with a bard would be a better choice using melee support.
Aren't you complaining that Knights have the same, if not better, mitigation that Warriors in your thread: Warrior suggestions ?? You need to learn to stay consistent so you're not so easily picked apart sir. Yeah this may be it. I just always see one class complaining about the other and how the other is better and my class needs a boost, etc etc. So I decided to play both and see what both were about. I don't min/max so maybe that's why I'm not seeing the big difference in tanking ability here. Well see that's the thing, I'm not looking for "which tank would be better in X situation". I was wondering why people are always pitting SK against Warriors. I run both tanks in my box set up with Enchanter and Mage and they both do equally well. The only big difference I can see is that my SK can handle multiples better (due to so many different self healing abilities), while my Warrior can take on harder hitting Namers better due to stronger defensive abilities. From where I stand, I can see the Warriors = MT over SKs. I can get that. But in the group game...even in progression...both tanks hold their own just fine. They both have their little niches where they excel, but they both get the job done equally well. Sad part is...I'm in the process of leveling a baby Paladin in my down time just to see if they really do need some proper lovins lol
Oh you mean where I brought up Battleblade's old annoying posts about how healing had to be nerfed because it was a giant morass versus mitigation that no one really took seriously? Ya, welcome to 2008. Anyway, if there's a prebuilt team say Bard, you go with martial DPS support to maximize dps potential and pulling/cc. While an enchanter supports a caster team better. Both tanks aren't equal, and not all groups are created equal. There are certain areas and places where they an excel better than one another. Not everyone is equal in all terms.
You can always tell in EQ when a class is OP. Just look at the number of the class you see running around and compare it to the other classes. Anyone attend open raids on their server?
I play a Shadowknight for a few reasons: 1) I’m primarily focused on the group game. In the group game, pulling multiples is common and I’m really attracted to the SK’s abilities to generate snap AE aggro, 2) The self healing is pretty cool. I typically just have a boxed shaman as a healer so the SK’s ability to reduce the burden on the shaman is important to me, and. 3) I want to be able to do as much dps as possible, and not just to undead !
To answer your question, it's because we have the same raid role. Tank things, kite. Not unlike DPS is pitted against other DPS.
I don't have a philosophical answer for why there is so much debate about SK vs war, but I can say I am 100% fine with my warrior and don't have any envy toward SK's additional toolset and mitigation capability that is really good.
Played the SK more last weekend than the warrior mostly because one is max AA(warrior) and the SK still has a few AAs that are useful before the last 1k or so new non-useful AAs are gained and he too is max AA again. Both were Max AA for a long time in EOK. But I digress. It's exactly what I recall and what everyone has said... ie, that SK damage taken can be a little streaky compared to warriors. Well planned disc application and overall tankiness of the warrior is evident. Nothing in the differences cannot be made up with just the slightest degree of healing changes ( I box either a shaman or cleric..just depends). Sometimes with the SK when you have bitten off a little more than you should have you like having a cleric behind you rather than a shaman. But even there I could modify the shaman's spell lineup just as easily and pick up the slack that way I guess. I think the variation is the spice for EQ life and why the MMO remains popular after so long. There is an interchangeableness that is subtle but is everywhere and just before you complain about something "not being right with your class or a given situation" perhaps consider what you have at your fingertips to control that might remedy the situation. A surprising amount of the time you can fix what's wrong.
Baseline mitigation between all the tanks is the same. Everyone has the same defensive proficiency %, 12 % for the tank set up. AC softcap difference between warriors and knights is a multiplier of 0,02. Largely makes no difference, given both tanks have access to the same AC values on gear. Warriors aren't more sturdy than SK in group content. If people are more "spiky" when playing their SK, then they probably don't use enough well all your self healing tools to soak up dmg on your SK. Regarding single target aggro, warriors don't have an edge over SK if just using their hate tools available without aggro mod. If warriors rotate their aggro mod, and SK use their VoT spell each time they can, then single target aggro is maybe around equal between the 2 classes. But warriors never get an edge over SK in single target aggro like claimed by the OP.
