SK vs. Paladin Solo at 115

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Roguexx, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. Chaosflux Augur

    Test was like this
    With no other actions taken on mob, both chars in OOC regen

    I'd tag with Brilliant (no override)
    SK would tag with level 81 terror (5500 override)

    Tested again with Valiant, protest, requiem, remonstrate

    There were only a handful of mobs I found where the SK could pull it off me (animal body type). Hate cap

    I am telling you that because I am getting 15k hate on initial cast except on some weird outliers.

    I tested that in a handful of zones, there were some weird mobs in ROS, VOA that did seem to have an initial cap, but they were as I said animal bodytype.

    Edit: I should say remonstrate did weird stuff with its negative hate mod, I only tested it because I wasn't sure how it worked
  2. Wulfhere Augur

    You also said Bold Attacks AA was a factor. Did you test with it enabled/disabled and discovered a difference in initial hate cap?

    I.e. you are implying that Protest with Bold Attacks disabled is initial hate capped.

    ps: I recall a discussion about hate mods applying after the NPC's initial hate cap, so the final hate can be over the cap but the base amount is still capped (without an override).
  3. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    I highly doubt the % mod stacks, but I could be wrong I suppose.
    Szilent likes this.
  4. Chaosflux Augur

    I tried it with bold attacks off and on, on both characters I used in the test.

    I mentioned bold attacks because I didn't test any classes that didn't have bold attacks, so I don't know if an initial cap applies to them, but it certainly didn't seem to be the case for tanks with it on or off, mask on or off.
  5. Warpeace Augur

    The main problem with the Knights Protest line is ZERO hate override. So if It lands fists and you have a bunch of try hards on your mob your already behind on agro. Its agro over time is currently the best SPA 192 we have though.

    I would like to see some Hate override added to that spell line to clean up the initial agro issues.

    I suggested in another thread the Paladin agro mod be moved to our Sincere Fury line if possible. An upgrade to the agro mod value would also be appreciated.
  6. Repthor Augur

    Wanted to speak on the weird aggro interaction first on hoshkar theres a mecanict that screws with aggro on that one

    Sounds like alot more tanks other then warrs are starting to run in to over aggro issues as our hate abilitys are increaseing. Alot of the interarctions your describing here sounds like your breaking the aggro list aka gettig such a high number of raw hate it will reset you aggro and you will loose it to some whos not exceeded the max value yet. It use to be mostly warrs that this happened to due to our class weapon haveing a icrease hate% so if you hit something for long enough you we exceed the hate max value and get reset

    What maybe happening here is pally that are makeing use of spamming prostest and vallant sense buffed can climb the list on sinel target much faster then b4 and possibly break the hate cap after a wile of pushing buttons seeing as they also fixed the witness check for heals somewhat i suspect it all adds up. Its not weird at all in my estimation a warr whould be next in line to get aggro after you get reset as we often duel weild our hate weapons when we are back up tanks or for what ever reason the procs of the weapons will sooner or later make us be second highest on aggro and we need to start holding off to not be a pain to the MT.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  7. sojero One hit wonder

    They do not stack. Agro mod stacking is worn + spell + AA.

    The AA is the passive one that everyone gets, so either bold attacks or subtlety (for non tank classes)
    worn, is mask.
    Spell is "buff slot" so that is either the AA or Touch line for sk

    As to the initial hate cap topic being talked about, I have seen some weird stuff as well, but never tested further that initial tests.

    What we did was have one sk pull with spear and then the other tag it with terror. In theory if hate caps were working the sk that pulled would be limited to 150 hate on the spear and then the sk with terror would put 20k hate pushing the first one to 1%, but that is not what we saw in practice, we saw that the terror would overtake (because higher hate value) but would push the other sk to 80% so showing that the initial hate cap wasn't taking effect.
  8. Wulfhere Augur

    If there's a cap it's probably just numerical. It's possible there are numerical overflows if there are a mixture of 16, 32, 64 bit integer variables, signed and unsigned, used in the hate amount calculations. Signed vs unsigned comparisons (for clamping) could be incorrect as well.

    A numerical overflow would look like a "reset".
  9. Szilent Augur

    I've never in my career experienced what you're describing, not even dual wielding these versus super long bosses like Amalgum Arbiter from top to bottom.
  10. Elemental Augur

    Almost up to 200!
  11. Puzzling Journeyman

    Sympathy cards received?
  12. shiftie Augur

    Still no video showing that steely procs concordant.

    Also you know how to tell the mobs are barely swinging in a swarm? You aren’t getting any push moving you oor of the mobs. With the physics of push in game you should have been on ice skates needing a corner or to use your mount to channel a cast.
    Wulfhere, Chaosflux and menown like this.
  13. Tropi Elder

    like the gd pull wasn't even that much of an ach like other people have said like i could manage a pull close to the same size in WW near the start of the exp and my tank is not bis from tov
  14. Chaosflux Augur

    Got time stamps for steely procs proccing concordant
    Wulfhere likes this.
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    Lol. Steely Renewal costs 0 mana therefore ...
    Chaosflux likes this.
  16. Fenthen aka Rath

    I am confused as to why you kept hitting Taunt, especially towards the end when you had full aggro. And your manual clicking of buttons is setting off my anxiety, compounded with the unorganized hotbars!
  17. Repthor Augur

    Most likley right that the cap is a tecinal limitation due to excess value.

    Its prett easy to test if this is what is happening if you run in to what looks like the mob all of sudden is ignoreing you for no good reason . Just stop doing stuff cuz the value you have generated will start to decline over time if you dont add to it. So when it lose enough aggro to be with in the allows paramaters it should hard snap right back to you unless mob is in a casting animation or someone is useing unending or the likes
  18. Repthor Augur

    Try manipulating the hate list harder. For a warrior this it pretty easy with taunting of pets and leepfrogging your own aggro with crit taunts
  19. Elemental Augur

    You can tell I'm getting pushed around quite a bit, but what can I say, I'm a Froglok and they don't seem to get pushed around much possibly because they grew up around all the Trolls and Ogres, and had to teach them a lesson!
    Not to mention, I utilize quick casting spells, but there is one point during the video where I had used a longer casting time spell and it did not land because of the push. You know what they say about push right?

  20. Elemental Augur

    Up to 227 views over night! I am going viral! Hail the EQ Gods, Mithaniel Marr has blessed me! Why not hit taunt? If you got it, use it no reason to save Disc's like I tell my fellow tanks when raiding. What are you saving your cool downs for a rainy day? Cool downs are meant to be used and the quicker you use them, the quicker they are up again to use again!