SK/Rng IRC Chats 11/12

Placeholder page for summaries.

Clear to post.

I'll now go about fixing the weird error my messages caused in the log heh.

03* ChanServ sets mode: +o Elidroth
<Shang> the man of the hour
<@Elidroth> morning
<MetravTriton> Morning
<Shang> How goes?
<Drozes> Morning
<@Elidroth> it goes
<Tharkis> Good morning Elidroth. Zerkkin rolled a ranger twink and asked me to say that rangers need to be able to head shot any mob in the game, even if they dont have heads, and that every head shot should CH the ranger. Thanks !
<Tarvas> morning
<@Elidroth> after yesterday.. I'm feeling pretty good about things overall
<irctc078> this is going to be productive i see
<Fatbuk> I blame your Super Secret Black Box Meeting
<Rouan> Guten morgen, Elidroth
<@Elidroth> one sec and I'll be ready to go
<@Elidroth> yeah.. that meeting yesterday was awesome
<Straahdx-tunare> Good morning Elidroth
<Shang> is it going to launch on time
<@Elidroth> So today is Shadowknight and Ranger day
<Fatbuk> soon (tm)
<@Elidroth> as with yesterday, this is open format for both classes
<@Elidroth> if you have a question, ask away
<@Elidroth> I will be taking a break today from 12:30 to about 1:30 to eat lunch but that's it
<Shang> Mana issues - You said yes to giving Spell Casting Mastery rank 4 to Paladins. Will that AA line be inclusive to all Hybrids?
<irctc078> Would like to see quickened roots type of an AA for ranger and druid vinelash (AE roots)
<@Elidroth> yes. It'll be an addition to what you have now
<@Elidroth> looking at the reuse times now
<Shang> Great. Similar topic, different way - Is it possible, via AA, to give Hybrids a specialization skill in casting? Similar to how Secondary Forte gives it to casters/priests, would adding it allow Hybrids to receive one Specialization?
<Shang> Ala, Specialize Evocation for Rangers, Specialize Alteration for Paladins. Etc.
<Questor> Good morning Eldiroth, What are your thoughts on SK revieving a mini Funeral Pyre like aa ability? Something that would shorten the druation of DoTs and increasing the damage at a cost of increased mana.
<@Elidroth> I'll look into the quickened roots, but I'll have to figure out how much of a reduction is reasonable
<irctc078> thank you sir
<@Elidroth> No Shang. I can't give a specialization outside of code
<Shang> Phooey. Possible to add that to code's list, for an undeterminable future? ;-)
<@Elidroth> can ask, but that'll have to be decided by the systems team as a whole if we even want to do that
<Shang> Fair enough.
<gladare> Since you're looking into hastened, can you add an enragings kicks line to go with our hastened jolting kicks?
<gladare> sorry ranger
<@Elidroth> Questor - If I could get Funeral Pyre to work right I wouldn't be against it, but right now that AA isn't working correctly
<Shang> Also, along side that... Do you want me to go through the 15 different AA ideas to increase our mana regeneration, or file that under something you still need to discuss with Aristo, and go from there?
<Questor> ok, thanks for your consderation Elidroth
<@Elidroth> I want to hear the ideas, but I won't make a decision on them right now
<Shang> Hadce has most of them, but will be gone for a bit.
<Straahdx-tunare> Any plans on giving sk some type of raid utility besides an off tank / kiter?
<Shang> But, My personal opinion is it shouldn't be burst mana, and should instead be a rather-large mana regen.
<@Elidroth> Straahdx - You're a tank. Exactly what kind of utility could you receive that wouldn't make you seriously overpowered outside of raids?
<Shang> Several ways to do that. Putting it on the same timer as one of our wolves (would expect greater mana efficiency if that's the case, as well), or a different wolf that can't be used at the same time.
<Terminat> debuffs maybe?
<@Elidroth> No.. raid debuffs are for other classes generally
<Questor> Elidroth - how do you feel about, A nuke with a recourse that twincasts the next DoT spell cast along the lines of this proposal. Draws inspiration from the Paladin Glorious line of nukes, which twincasts the next heal spell cast. (from a Evilgamer posting)
<@Elidroth> slow down guys.. let me get to the questions that have been asked
<Straahdx-tunare> Ya, debuffs, or even revamping the old theft lines so they hit the raid. Just some thoughts.
<@Elidroth> Shang - Most of the mana stuff needs to be discusses with Aristo. Best to probably PM me on the forums with your mana regen ideas.
<Shang> Will relay that to Hadce after discussion, thanks.
<@Elidroth> ok
<Rouan> Most of our future questions will probably be melee dps related then
<@Elidroth> Straahdx - Every time I've done this, SK's have said "Raid utility" but then really can't come up with something that doesn't stomp all over everyone else
<irctc078> any chance of a self purification of the soul or natures souls similar to what beastlords have for rangers. I know just because they have it isnt a reason we should have just asking
<@Elidroth> sec
<shiftee> re: from yesterday paladin chat that we said worked better for the sk class ---Demoralize: 1 minute duration 10 minute recast -500 MR, reduces a targets ability to dodge.
<shiftee> Spells with a similar effect = Tunnel Vision (Diviner of Dread, Ritual of Terror Raid)
<shiftee> Spell ID = 12154, gemicon = 0, spell name = Tunnel Vision
<shiftee> Rank 1,2,3 cost 5/10/15, Decrease chance to dodge 5/10/15% 3 tic duration, 10 minute recast
<irctc078> oops meant natures salve*
<@Elidroth> yeah.. I like that one for SKs.. but one ability does not utility make
<Shang> Hastened Desperation - Rangers currently have a heal on a 30 second timer, with a large mana cost. It's historically named "Desperate XXX". Would you be opposed to adding a few ranks of a hastened to cut the reuse on that line a bit?
<shiftee> it is a start though* as a sort of revamp of their torrents* ok i'm done now, just wanted to throw that out there since it fit the convo.
<@Elidroth> Actually.. we want to keep the purify, cure, etc on some specific classes
<@Elidroth> if we farm out everything, then those support classes become less useful
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - Would it be possible for Shadow Knight's to get an ability, similar in functionality to Berserker's Shared Brutality, but instead of a melee attack buff it is a leech curse effect on the Target's Target. However a debuff can be placed on the caster, similar to mortal residue, that will block that effect from hitting the Shadow Knight who cast the ability in the first place?
<Shang> Heals are Desperate Downpour, Desperate Drenching, Desperate Deluge.
<Straahdx-tunare> Let me shift from utility then. Any thoughts on an aa similar to the necro "embrace the decay" self poison / disease cure? Not sure where the rest of the SKs stand on the idea though.
<@Elidroth> not inclined to change those Shang
<@Elidroth> you're not a healer
<Terminat> what are you inclined to change?
<Terminat> just to get a starting point
<@Elidroth> things you're supposed to be doing 99% of the time.. damage
<Terminat> right on
<Shang> How about quickening auspice, or making it instant casting?
<xaroth> any chance of a quickened demand for power aa line maxxed as instant, will make it more viable in fast kill groups?
<@Elidroth> LuftEQ - it's an interesting idea. Not against it, but I'll need to look at your current leech effects to see if we want to increase those
<Shang> Believe auspice is a 1 second cast time.. Usually during a burning time.
<Rouan> ^I'd buy a new rank just to ditch the cast time
<@Elidroth> things have cast times for a reason
<Straahdx-tunare> Perhaps another rank to quickened terrors that would get those to instant?
<@Elidroth> You can't reduce spell cast times more than 50%
<Drozes> Ranger Suggestion. An AA to make all archery skills for a very short duraction always trigger Trick Shot. Highly expansive AA, Few ranks to increase duration. Another AA to Hasten cooldown. Used for help burst dmg on raids.
<@Elidroth> it's simply not possible in the code
<Rouan> Elidroth, Auspice is an AA, not a spell.
<irctc078> DPS wise any chance of a type of an AA call it true ambidexterity or something similar, making offhand swing as match primary hand for rangers?
<Terminat> SK: Upgrade to Voice of Thule?
<@Elidroth> I'm aware.. but it triggers a spell
<Shang> Would you be opposed to cutting the cast time in half?
<Shang> Via a Quickening AA line.
<@Elidroth> Offhand damage increases are sadly just a switch. On or Off. I have no control over how much
<@Elidroth> not against a quickening to .5 sec
<Shang> I'll take it.
<Rouan> ohhh, right, silly me. It's coded as a spell thus can be MGB'd /headdesks
<xaroth> would be better for sure
<@Elidroth> I'm not really sure your ranged dps needs a lot of improvement
<Drozes> Ok, thanks for reply
<@Elidroth> I can do it, but there will have to be a tradeoff somewhere
<MetravTriton> Corrupted Arrows: same dmg/cost/duration/recast as Poison arrows - but instead of a dot that does dmg, how about a debuff of some kind that makes it take 2-3% more dmg from arrows that stacks with the temporary effect from announced.
<Shang> I have a large list of hasteneds I'd like to see.. Don't believe we got any this expansion. Here's the list, sorry for taking a lot of space with it.
<Shang> Guardian of the Forest - 1 Rank
<Shang> Outriders Attack - 1 rank
<Shang> Imbued Ferocity - 1 rank
<Shang> Group Guardian of the Forest - 3 ranks
<Shang> Outrider's Accuracy - 1 rank
<Shang> Forceful Rejuvenation - 2 ranks
<Shang> Cover Tracks - 6 ranks
<irctc078> curious what your thoughts if ranger melee needs much improvement?
<Klaian> We really need something to get our melee dps up. It has fallen way behind.
<@Elidroth> Melee needs help probably
<Zahrim> What about something like Viper arrows to swap out for Poison arrows - I'm aware Aristo in charge of spells/mana (it seems) but atm we sustain for about 3 minutes at full capacity, which is 1/3rd of any other classes. Viper arrows would basically trade mana returns (a proc when it fires, something like 1500 mana gained) in return for a loss of dps (poison arrows)
<Klaian> Needs a lot of help
<@Elidroth> I don't want your class to be one-dimensional but those gains have to be done carefully
<Shang> Pause on questions a sec while he gets through these.. sorry
<irctc078> so would a 30 second mash type of an aa be acceptable similiar to some other classes im think like backstab i forget what the beastlod aa is called
<Straahdx-tunare> Touch of the cursed and soul abrasion increases?
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - I don't know if this was asked before I got here, but. Would it be possible to get additional ranks of Touch of the Cursed AA? This can be done a few ways. Extra amounts of damage onto it to match pace with increasing HP counts is always a good way. If that doesn't seem appealing could we perhaps get a Mental Horror esc recourse attached to ToTC with additional ranks? Not both, just one or the other.
<@Elidroth> I wouldn't be against 1 new rank of Soul Abrasion. Touch of the Cursed is a bit more... delicate
<Straahdx-tunare> Will take it
<shiftee> i think you have that backwards
<Straahdx-tunare> Thanks
<shiftee> SA = the modification of the proc, touch of the cursed is the proc
<@Elidroth> Shiftee.. I'm well aware
<shiftee> ok
<@Elidroth> SA affects ALL abilities in a given spell group
<shiftee> just basing that off of what you said in the past regarding that topic, i'm done for real
<irctc078> oh something similar to feral swipe which is a beastlod abilty a 30 second reuse is what i mwant to say
<@Elidroth> something like that wouldn't be a problem, but all I ever hear from people is "no more activated abilities" heheh
<xaroth> sorry if this has been discussed - sk mana drain/ regen seems to be bad atm - hard to sustain dmg during longer raid events and xp group - is it something you and aristo will be looking at?
<Shang> Was there a thought on the hasteneds I proposed?
<Drozes> that's a good point Elidroth - Two hotbars jsut for AA
<irctc078> yeah i hear that too, could hastend aa also go along with that AA?
<@Elidroth> I wrote them down Shang.. I'll have to evaluate each one
<gladare> xartoh -yes
<xaroth> ok
<Shang> Thanks sir.
<MetravTriton> an SK ability that innately procs a pet, that shields you for 5% of incoming dmg for 5-10k or heal you after 5 seconds if you take no dmg.
<Drozes> Would like to Back CoverTracks. Way to long of a cooldown, specially compared to other classes
<@Elidroth> just what we need Metrav.. more pets
<@Elidroth> lol
<Shang> Scout's Mastery of Ice/Fire haven't been updated since their first incarnation. Do you feel these are too powerful to upgrade, or are you willing to look at them?
<@Elidroth> both SKs and Paladins are going to be getting some tweaks to their tanking abilities
<Rouan> Rangers already have an activated... ability... in Jolting/Enraging kicks. Could up the damage significantly, but that's someone else's realm
<xaroth> via discs or passively?
<Straahdx-tunare> I realize visage of death probably won't be getting upgraded due to "omg moar swarming", but what are your thoughts on an upgrade / separate aa that only works on your current target?
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - Yesterday in the warrior IRC chat you mentioned changes coming to taunt and aggro generation in general related to that ability. Is that specifically for warriors or will knights see taunt become something that has a better than 5% success rate as well?
<@Elidroth> Shang - not against it, but when I made those, I got a lot of feedback from people saying they didn't care because, and I quote "We're not casters"
<Terminat> Would you be opposed to an upgrade to the Voice of Thule line? Would give us 1 useful buff on a raid.
<@Elidroth> Luft - specific to warriors
<Shang> Erm... Did you inform them about the rough percentage of their DPS that comes from spell-casting, and that a Ranger should never stop casting? =\
<@Elidroth> Terminat - that's doable for sure
<gladare> Most rangers save the scout's mastery ice/fire line to be used specifically with Imbued ferocity. That is why we're asking for the increase
<@Elidroth> I'll look at those lines
<Shang> Thank you.
<@Elidroth> no promises though
<@Elidroth> afk a sec.. need to grab a drink
<Klaian> Can we get the Increase Absorb Magic Damage by 200 on 3rd spire of the pathfinder increased or removed to make the aa useable?
<gladare> I'd prefer removed altogether
<Klaian> agree
<irctc078> changing the absorb to a mana regen would be nice as well
<Shang> On the spire topic, I asked Elidroth on that question last year. He said he'll evaluate it after VoA's launch.
<Shang> But yes, Lord Nagafen should not be able to break our rune on that spell.
<Drozes> Ranger Q: Would something like Bow Master but for melee be possible to help out of Melee DPS, striaght dmg on top of every strike. Of course with lower numbers. Maybe split it up by weapon type to make people work for it more and also to take into account how different weapons have different delays
<Zahrim> like scouts mastery of blunt?
<@Elidroth> back
<gladare> scout's mastery is not a damage bonus
<gladare> in that way
<Drozes> unsure if that adds striaght dmg on top
<Shang> Here's the PM I sent to you about the spire, Elidroth. http://forums.station.sony.com/eqold/pm/read.m?id=273317.. I realize you don't want to talk about spires, though.
<Drozes> talking about something like 'Rk1-5, Adds 5 dmg per hit. Rk 6-10 add 15 dmg a hit)
<@Elidroth> one sec
<@Elidroth> yeah
<@Elidroth> I'll change that
<Shang> You'll change the Third spire of the Pathfinder?
<@Elidroth> yes
<Zahrim> <3 u
<Zahrim> right now
<Shang> Much love.
<Drozes> ./love
<@Elidroth> 200 spell shield was.. um.. silly
<Shang> Yes, Lord Nagefen drops it.
<Spankage> How about Outrider's Attack removing Symphony of Battle clicky? Any chance that can get fixed?
<gladare> it currently overwrites symphony of battle because of the plus attack power
<irctc078> sorry if i missed it but what will it third spire be changing too?
<@Elidroth> 3rd spire will change for the Jan patch
<Shang> The spell shield portion will be modified
<irctc078> oke doke
<@Elidroth> I'm in design lock right now or I'd change it today
<Questor> Elidroth - Would you consider a SK nuke with a recourse that twincasts the next DOT spell cast ? (Simlar to Paladin Glorious line, which twincasts the next heal spell cast.)
<@Elidroth> to be more accurate, I'm going to remove the spell shield and make it something else
<Shang> Mana regen!?
<Shang> jk
<Shang> unless you want to add that
<irctc078>
<@Elidroth> Questor - It's something I can look at.
<Viltaire> Elidroth - Would you consider adding ranks to the SK aa's Cascading Theft of Life and Cascading Theft of defense to either A) Fire more often or B) significantly increase the recourse so that they are noticeable?
<@Elidroth> It's not a NO
<@Elidroth> hehe
<Questor> Thank you
<Shang> Almost done with my 'upgrades' requests.. Protection of the spirit wolf.
<Shang> Currently gives 40% mitigation, for 62,000 damage. It scaled really well last expansion, iirc.. but was hoping to get another rank added as well.
<Straahdx-tunare> Thoughts on a single target version of visage of death?
<@Elidroth> SK Lifetaps are pretty good overall as is.. your ability to self-heal is adequate IMO
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - I PM'd you about this back in November but beta was a busy time for everyone so I'll ask again. With DoTs for ShadowKnight's being as they are, bad in a good group and non existant in raids if you have more than a few necromancers on your roster. Would it be possible to get an ability that did for our spear line what the underfoot BP does for our lifetaps? I can PM you the specifics again if you want to hear more about it.
<Terminat> would rather more ranks of VoD personally
<@Elidroth> I'm not against looking at them, but I wouldn't expect a huge increase
<@Elidroth> Straahdz - No. Visage is going to remain self-only
<Straahdx-tunare> No, I meant only works on the mob you have targeted, not castable on other players.
<@Elidroth> PM me Luft
<@Elidroth> huh?
<Terminat> pet VoD?
<illa> a VoD that won't work on swarms is what he's saying
<Filatal> Straahdx is looking for an upgrade to VoD, but remove its ability to be swarmable
<@Elidroth> I don't really have a way to do that
<shiftee> ie somehow doesn't mod riposte

<shiftee> is there a way to suppress riposte completel?
<shiftee> ly*
<@Elidroth> no
<Straahdx-tunare> Oh, nevermind lol..
<Shang> Put parry back ahead of riposte in checks =p
<gladare> can rangers get a hastened enraging kicks line similar to our hastened jolting kicks line? 5 ranks at 1 second reduction per rank
<Spankage> Make it so it removes the sk's avoidance/mitigation like light pillar does to warriors on the alra raid, so would be impossible to swarm with it? lol
<Shang> Did you write down something about protection of the spirit wolf?
<@Elidroth> I'll look at it
<Shang> Thanks
<Zahrim> cant you just make an ability like headshot where they'd only get the damage increase on the mob they target
<Zahrim> for visage i mean
<@Elidroth> no
<@Elidroth> what's the spell name on enraging kicks?
<gladare> current is enraging heel kicks
<Shang> Enraging Heel Kicks
<Questor> 34527
<@Elidroth> crescent kicks was the 1st in the line right?
<Ronthorn> lol net droped for a hour
<gladare> yes
<Questor> 28506 Enraging Crescent Kicks level 92 ranger
<Shang> Crescent was the first Hate kick, yes
<@Elidroth> ok
<@Elidroth> yeah I can do that. I want to check with Aristo first but I don't see a problem
<gladare> thank you
<Drozes> Ranger Q: Would something like Bow Master but for melee be possible to help out of Melee DPS, striaght dmg on top of every strike. Of course with lower numbers. Maybe split it up by weapon type to make people work for it more and also to take into account how different weapons have different delays. AAs like this scale great with new content as it is easy to add ranks.
<@Elidroth> You mean like the Scout's Mastery line you already have?
<Drozes> Something with a straight amount of damage on top
<gladare> He means more akin to outrider's attack except passive and smaller
<@Elidroth> possibly
<Ronthorn> i missed some of this so no clue whats been asked so far
<Drozes> thank you for considering. Just suggestions.
<MetravTriton> would it be possible to make poison arrows and simliar lines NOT proc when using flusterbolt/blusterbolt?
<gladare> flusterbolt/blusterbolt being flagged as archery so they proc the arrow lines
<Ronthorn> those are spells gladare he wants AA
<irctc078> instant cast time on cover tracks something that you would be open too? also are you open to reduce cast time down to 3 minutes with the appropriate AA's added in? for Rangers
<@Elidroth> No chance
<Drozes> Gladare you're prob thinking purely for headshotting. having a root flaged as archery doesnt make since in my head
<@Elidroth> on the instant cast part
<@Elidroth> I'll reduce the reuse time, but it won't be 3 minutes
<Drozes> unless it named something liek 'pin down' can picture that as an arhceyr root
<gladare> For those correcting me, flusterbolt and blusterbolt are currently flagged as archery
<gladare> They proc the arrow aa lines because of this
<Zahrim> And have a 100% chance to apply arrow buffs
<Zahrim> it's quite annoying
<Drozes> really Gladare - had no idea. that would make sense than
<Drozes> sorry
<Questor> Elidroth - can you add more ranks for SK - Shield Specialist ? It was last upgraded in UF
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - Do you think Shadow Knight's could get a twin cast ability specific to our spear line? If it is doable without also twincasting lifetaps, that is. Similar trigger rates to DoTs would be wonderful if it's doable.
<irctc078> not sure off hand what the cast time on cover tracks is but is any reduction on cast time possible?
<Shang> Only upgrades I have left to current AAs are increasing the heal over times on the Guardian of the Forest AAs.
<gladare> So it may be up to aristo to change those spells rather than elidroth changing the aa's?
<Drozes> Beleive he stated the max reduciton of any cast time is 50%
<Ronthorn> I know there flaged as Archery u just assumed since spell he didnt want to touch
<@Elidroth> no more shield spec
<Questor> ok thanks Elidroth
<@Elidroth> The problem with changing Flusterbolt to something not archery, is it is intended to be a magical arrow. A blunt projectile that knocks the target senseless
<Shang> Erm.. Immersion interupting better gameplay?
<irctc078> any idea why sometimes flusterbolt line pushes the mob back but then sometimes jumps back right on top of you right after it hits
<Drozes> Thing gladare is happy it is Archery - just wondering if it would trigger archery effects. Such as headshot or trickshot...
<Ronthorn> means the mob likes you to much
<irctc078> heh yeah
<@Elidroth> I can make a spear twincast AA. The question is do I want to.. lol
<gladare> Drozes - the roots do not trigger headshot or trickshot
<Straahdx-tunare> ./jedi mind trick - yes you do!
<Drozes> Yup i know. You are asking since it is considered Archery, could they trigger those effects.
<Drozes> unless i misunderstood
<gladare> I am not. You did.
<Shang> Think I'm done with current AA upgrades/bug fixes/annoyances.. Moving on to 'new aas'
<Gulbinos> Hello everyone
<MetravTriton> actually the opposite, i don't want flusterbolt/blusterbolt to do anything other than knock the mob back, root it, and blur it. Unfortunatley at this point, it triggers Poison arrows 100% of the time which also dots it, negating the blur
<@Elidroth> I'll think about changing the casting skill
<Rouan> Conjuration: Summon a magical arrow that knocks things!
<irctc078> so this is just a fun aa and very rangerish but i always liked the idea of a ranger eye of zom but the eye being a hawk or some sort for scouting purposes any objection to some that Eldiroth mainly just a fluff thing
<Spankage> Why does fluster/bluster trigger poison arrow but not heartcarve?
<Spankage> Is there a way to just exclude fluster/bluster from poison arrow like heartcarve?
<Shang> Would like a battle leap, or just a general port-forward type AA. (rANGER)
<@Elidroth> everyone wants a battle leap
<@Elidroth> it's not going to happen
<phynster> i would actually like a ranger gate and not the drop dead gate either
<Shang> Can we have a reverse one then, instead of going forward it goes backwards? =p
<@Elidroth> Heartcarve has no exclusion. I'm not sure why it doesn't trigger it
<Ronthorn> no it will DT us then gate
<Gulbinos> I have an idea for a sk aa. It would take a % of the hate generated by your group and transfer it to you for x time. Would assist group dps in raids.
<@Elidroth> no way to track that Gulbinos.. I like the idea, but don't have any way to make it happen
<Shang> Nature's Tithe - Essentially a copy of the Necromancer Blood Tithe, but for Ranger.
<@Elidroth> why?
<@Elidroth> You guys need to come up with better reasons for things than "that class has something I want.. so give it to me"
<Shang> To increase the damage our DoTs do, so I can erase 2 nukes from my spell rotation.
<gladare> ranger DoT is worthless is why
<Shang> They don't have to be, Gladare.
<Ronthorn> yeah ranger DoT is crap and my raid feilds 4 necors heck no one can get a dot up with them
<Questor> Elidroth - Would you consider hastening SK AoE hate (explosion of Hatred/Spite) ?
<Ronthorn> necro's sorry for mspell
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - Would it be possible to get more ranks of Hastened Hate's attraction? Currently ranks 1-3 do 10s decrease each rank, can we get another 3 ranks perhaps at the same decrease?
<Shang> I'd advise you to not cast them during a Raid, and cast them during a group environment, then.
<Ronthorn> well thats is true shang lol sorry did not think of group side of it
<@Elidroth> I'm ok with more Hastened Hate's Attraction
<Straahdx-tunare> Going off of galbino - the undivided acrimony line. Instead of reducing your groups aggro, transfer it to you at the fade of the UA disc?
<Gulbinos> as a sk - i feel that paladins are more valued in raids because they can heal other people. Are there plans to upgrading SK's totc and sa lines? this is all we have to give us an edge in tanking over paladins
<@Elidroth> there's no way to track the amount of hate generated by a group
<LuftEQ> gulbinos he said earlier that he would consider giving us more ranks of SA
<Cisco> I agree Gulb,,, SKs really don't have any "utility" on raid
<Cisco> greater mods to the bite lines could be nice too i suppose. but eh
<phynster> ive got a question, is there a reason why bows are unusable against the alaran guards in underground city?
<Gulbinos> Im not asking to be able to heal anyone (epic is sufficient) but if paladins can tank the same as us AND heal others.. then why even have a sk?
<MetravTriton> Summon: Archer's Bane Arrow - Summons 100 mystical arrows. 30 dmg/125 range - 45 min reuse. Arrows are expendable tagged.
<@Elidroth> decent spell.. not going to be an AA
<MetravTriton> was worth a shot /nod
<Shang> New rank of Shared Camoflage... Permanent duration.
<Questor> Hastened Hates attraction is great, could Deaths Effigy also be to match? Often used together
<phynster> archer's bane is now gonna be added to make spells
<Shang> Or, new AA if it can't be a new rank, new AA.
<phynster> mage**
<@Elidroth> No shange
<@Elidroth> Shang
<MetravTriton> Collapsible Bow -> temporarily reduces the proxmity range for using archery to 0.
<Shang> Is hastened forage possible?
<@Elidroth> Questor - I'm not going to get into this game of making abilities all fall on the same timer cycle
<Zahrim> Anyone ask for more ranks of tracking mastery
<Zahrim> not reading everything
<@Elidroth> No way to do that Metrav
<@Elidroth> No. Forage is a skill. I can't control the refresh time on skills
<@Elidroth> that's in code
<illa> no hastened forage
<Shang> I thought there was a hastened taunt AA a few expansions ago.
<Straahdx-tunare> How about perma sk invis via cloak of shadows. We already have perma ivu.
<@Elidroth> unfortunately, that was a specific effect for taunt code made
<Shang> ah, roger that.
<Spankage> Ranger aa to remove the half dmg on moving/rooted target?
<@Elidroth> can't be done
<@Elidroth> that's in code
<phynster> more ac or hp aa so rangers can tank better?
<Spankage> Can you bring it up somewhere to get both min range / half dmg removed completely? lol
<@Elidroth> no
<Questor> Eldroth - Hastened Explosion of Spite / Hatred ? currently 1 min, perhaps down to .5 considered
<@Elidroth> not likely
<@Elidroth> SK hate generation is pretty good right now as is
<Questor> understood
<@Elidroth> and I don't really want to bump up AoE hate
<Ronthorn> has anyone said anything about our Melee Elidroth it seems lacking even more so with RoF, so maybe either a new passive AA, or maybe something being added to scouts mastery line, or maybe something activatable on a short refresh that gives a few extra swings
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - Would it be possible for Shadow Knight's to get an AA version of single target terror at about the same strength areas as our AA activatable AE aggro abilities, but on a much faster reuse timer?
<@Elidroth> No. The terrors are going to remain spells
<irctc078> ranger eye of zom but a hawk something you would be open too Eldiroth? just a fun type of aa to have?
<@Elidroth> can't. The eye race is specifically coded to be the only one that works like that
<@Elidroth> No joke
<@Elidroth> Eye of Zomm has a unique race all its own
<Questor> cool eq fact
<Terminat> well, there's the clockwork eye as well...
<Shang> Who would have thought hardcoding everything wouldn't be a great idea in a 14 year old game.
<Terminat> and don't the monks have a doug eye?
<Rouan> i'd imagine they didn't expect it to last longer than 3
<@Elidroth> Keep in mind Shang, when the game was being developed, they didn't think it would last more than 2 years
<Gulbinos> what about a spell or aa that has the reverse effect of voice?
<Shang> I know, which was the tongue-in-cheek portion of it, heh
<@Elidroth> Reverse Voice of Thule?
<@Elidroth> you want a way to do less agro?
<Gulbinos> yes - aggro reduction for others in group
<Shang> ll
<Terminat> de-agro spell, most classes that need that already have it
<gladare> that's a paladin aa
<@Elidroth> that seems odd for an SK
<Gulbinos> nevermind
<Ronthorn> Did you catch my Question Elidroth was a lot that went in at the time i hit enter
<Terminat> i'd rather the upgrade to VoT
<@Elidroth> Ranthorn - your melee is something I'm looking at
<phynster> ya i wouldnt mind melee upgrades for rangers
<Ronthorn> thanks Elidroth
<Shang> Hadce was drafting up an AA with a tiering effect. Rank one lasts 2 ticks, procs rank two for two ticks, procs rank 3, lasts 2 ticks, procs rank 4 for 2 ticks, and fades with a negative effect.
<@Elidroth> Close Combat Mastery - each rank adds a small fixed amount of damage to melee skills
<phynster> i box mage / ranger so getting aas to better tank / melee dps would be great
<Ronthorn> that sounds decent
<gladare> nice
<@Elidroth> it won't be a huge increase though but it's something that can be controlled, adjusted, added to pretty easily
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - Would it be possible to get more ranks of Shadow Knight's Cascading Theft of Life and Cascading Theft of Defense AAs? They haven't been updated since Underfoot.
<@Elidroth> without worrying about something scaling out of control
<Tearsin> and actually, eli, i have some input about what Luft just said
<@Elidroth> I'll look at them Luft..
<Tearsin> specicially, about how to upgrade them
<@Elidroth> who could have guessed that Tearsin?
<@Elidroth> lol
<Shang> haha
<Tearsin> oh, snap[
<@Elidroth> that's right up there with Shiftee having something to say about Paladins
<@Elidroth> No wait.. Really?
<Tearsin> lol
<shiftee> lol
<shiftee> !!
<Questor> Elidroth - SK Provocation of Power - would you consider extending the druation? base is 30 seconds
<Cisco> I like to see all the SK power taps on different timers =D
<@Elidroth> shocker
<phynster> someones probably already brought it up, but headshot?
<Rouan> YOU SAID THE MAGIC WORD!
<xaroth> faster cast is better than longer duration on demand for power imo
<Tearsin> so, on those two - theft of defense is a small 5 charge rune proc, theft of life is a small heal proc. he most popular thoughts i've seen on changes to the lines are additional ranks either: A. increase the potency significantly so you really 'feel' it when they fire, or B. increase the frequency of them firing, so they add up over time
<Gulbinos> can we take leech touch and thought leech off the same timer?
<shiftee> everyone take a drink
<Tearsin> right now they kind of feel like they fire infrequently, and do so litle you don't notice it when they do
<@Elidroth> Questor - I'd have to talk to Aristo first. I don't want to step all over his work if I can help it without talking to him about it
<illa> topic Headshot/Decap/Assassinate = ban
<@Elidroth> I'll write it down, but I don't have an answer now
<Terminat> i rarely notice either of them fireing
<Questor> Thanks Elidroth
<illa> they are really rare procs
<Terminat> and if they do, especially the defense one, it's gone before i notice it
<Sharkey-RF> What about an SK version of Reluctant Benevolence?
<@Elidroth> not a chance
<@Elidroth> I'll take a look at the cascading lines
<@Elidroth> not saying no
<Tearsin> just go find whatever snippe of code it is that makes theft of life fire every other cast on sepulcher 3 and then spply that to the base AA
<Straahdx-tunare> Hastened thought leech?
<Tearsin> (joke, btw)
<@Elidroth> what about Headshot?
<irctc078> another rank of natures repreive something you would add Eli?
<phynster> is there gonna be more ranks? or is it being discontinued?
<Terminat> Unlink leech touch and thought leech?
<Ronthorn> remove all ranks of it
<@Elidroth> perhaps you should play the game more Terminat
<@Elidroth> they ARE unlinked with the latest rank
<Terminat> ah
<Terminat> i remember them being unlinked on beta, don't have the final rank of TL yet
<illa> lol
<Gulbinos> i have a question about sk lifetap vs paladin healing. sk lifetap last xpack dire allegation was 6497 rk3 with a 24 sec recast min. paladin burst spell was 7800 rk3 with a shorter recast.. why the difference
<shiftee> b/c one is a nuke?
<@Elidroth> There will be no new ranks of Headshot, Anatomy, Finishing Blow, or Decapitation with this expansion.
<illa> those are spells, btw
<@Elidroth> because you're not the same class
<@Elidroth> wizards have spells that do more damage than you too
<Straahdx-tunare> Dd / heal vs heal
<Tearsin> Gulb: if i had to guess, it's because SK healing is a lot more expansive and complicated than jus our lifetap spells
<Beezy> Lol
<Questor> Elidroth smash )
<Shang> Ranger activatable crit damage modifier?
<@Elidroth> you really need to stop looking at the other knight class and saying "They have X, why don't I have it too?"
<@Elidroth> and such things
<Sharkey-RF> Any possible of Funeral pyre or Gift of Deathly resolve for sk's to help out with our dps?

<@Elidroth> Funeral Pyre doesn't work right currently, so no on that one
<@Elidroth> I don't know you need your dps increased that much either
<@Elidroth> you're not a dps class per se
<Cisco> yet we offer no raid utility either
<Terminat> ^^
<Sharkey-RF> would be nice to offer something besides kiting on raids lol
<Sharkey-RF> <---shadowkite
<Cisco> on raids that dont allow you to kite as well
<Gulbinos> its frustrating when raiding that 4-5 pallys is preferred with onlly 1-2 paladins so anything that could benefit our raid utility would be nice (besides clicking epic once or twice)
<xaroth> would be nice if everyone wasent fearless now and have some fear mobs to tank on raids for instance
<Rhymez> but rangers are the best ranged physical dmg class....physical dmg is a big factor for being ranged
<Tearsin> Eli if i may counter: we don't need our general sustained dps increased, no, but right now we're in a situation where in order for us to do DPS in a raid, we have to sacrifice our whole spellbar to do it - which is fine, needing to put some time and effort into a role swap is understandable. but the issue is, at a full burn, we put that time and effort into only compareable (or a bit less) dps than a war/paladin does in a burn, and t
<Gulbinos> *with only 1-2 sk's* typo
<Shang> Assuming you haven't changed your mind on Hundred Hands Effect yet elidroth, right?
<Sharkey-RF> What about a long reuse Curse of Muram aa?
<LuftEQ> and to go off what Tearsin just said. Not every guild allows you to dot at raids. My raid leader would shoot me in the face if I took a necro's dot spot.
<Cisco> not to get off subject, but man that SL raid goes WAY too charm happy when you "run away"... hate when it triggers from getting summoned by something!!! rage rage rage!
<Tearsin> clearly, there are a lot of synergy... complications... with SKs right now with regards to melee dps output, i'm aware of that and not suggesting a big change there.
<xaroth> give sks charm immune aa
<Cisco> OMG YES!
<irctc078> could natures repreive for rangers get another line added bigger heal and better chance to proc?
<Tearsin> i think our raid dps burst should come in the form of spell modifiers
<shiftee> wouldn't the necro aa that procs a twincast on a nuke of appropriate level for x duration solve that so tha tinstead of casting many dots you just cast a few in an order of nuke, dot, nuke etc ?
<gladare> Vinelash cascade/assault has a 1.5 second cast time. Can we get an aa to reduce the cast time to 1.0 seconds?
<@Elidroth> I can do another rank of Nature's Reprieve
<Terminat> hah
<phynster> ya hasten vinelash
<Tearsin> shiftee: not entirely, no - he issue with SKs atm in a burn situation is that individually, all our dots suck. we have to stack 10 of them and use Spire to get any kind of dps going out
<@Elidroth> hastened vinelash is possible. I'll look at it.
<Drozes> nice
<Cisco> without added debuff slots on a mob, i wouldnt even care to see added DPS for SKs in the form of DoTs.. not when you have 3-4 necros on raid at least
<Spankage> AA similar to Sionachie's Crescendo, activated, perma, goes to song window, but instead of increasing range song lowers spell hate by 20% or so.
<Rouan> Speak for yourself, I have 2 =(
<@Elidroth> the problem there is not SK's, it's a problem with Necros
<Tearsin> i still really want to see our dot lines consolidated, but aristo seems resistant to it
<@Elidroth> we need to figure out a good way to reduce the number of dots they cast without changing their damage
<irctc078> i think i missed it but what was the word on hastend deluge for Rangers?
<Shang> He said no, we aren't healers.
<Gulbinos> what about an aa that takes the life of our pet (if its up) andtransfers it to the sk as a lifetap and then kills the pet
<Rouan> it was a nay
<Sharkey-RF> My raid leader goes smash mode if I dare cast a dot on a raid.
<irctc078> doh
<@Elidroth> SK's have plenty of ways to heal themselves
<Sharkey-RF> Can we get a self only cure AA, like Embrace the Decay
<Tearsin> another wall of Tearsin text incoming, sorry
<Tearsin> speaking of Lifetap spells: the SK Bond line is, not to be hyperbolic about it, 100% useless in our spell bar. it flat out doesn't do enough healing to justify a spell gem, in any context or circumsance ever, and no SK in game i've ever encountered uses it
<Cisco> reduce our recast timers on our taps... id be cool with ><
<Terminat> bonds and bites are useless
<Tearsin> even if it was only situationally useful i'd be OK with that
<@Elidroth> I could be convinced on an Embrace the Decay type ability
<Sharkey-RF> yay, I'd love an Embrace Decay thing
<Tearsin> so... aristo hasn't seemed very receptive to my suggestions, but some of the get into AA territory
<Tearsin> A. give it the same support AAs that HoTs have, for tick crits and increased healing, B. a single AA to make it auto-cast the hot on our pet
<Shang> Also assuming there isn't an alternate, or upgrade, to Sinister Strikes that you'd do to increase Ranger melee?
<Tearsin> terminat i disagree with you on bites being useless. i think they're definitely stagnated significantly, but not useless
<Terminat> Tearsin that's what i mean
<@Elidroth> you'll have to take up the Bond/Bite issue with Aristo
<irctc078> i know i asked earlier on a cure type of an ability but could you add a cure to natures reprieve? since its not an activate type of ability it would be random with natures repeive and wouldnt take away from real curing classes
<Tearsin> i have, i was only mentioning them specifically in relation to AA support for the spell
<@Elidroth> define support?
<@Elidroth> I'm not going to get into a situation where "Mom said no.. so let's ask Dad"
<xaroth> crits
<Shang> are you mom or dad
<Terminat> haha
<@Elidroth> Dad clearly
<Shang> aristo did bring you lunch yesterday. hrm
<Questor> Elidroth - Ageless Enmity - Hastened/Another Rank perhaps ?
<LuftEQ> Elidroth - On the topic of bites. Would it be possible to get our AA bite, specifically that one, to hit the entire raid? I don't know if this was mentioned earlier or not so I appologize if it was.
<Terminat> yeah, the bites should have ... bite
<Terminat> atm it's more like a nibble
<Cisco> LOL@bites... theyre not even a nibble
<@Elidroth> which bite Luft?
<Tearsin> either that, or if it can be done, split out the recourse (like our epic buff) where the effect that hits us is way bigger, even if the effect that hits our group is still small
<Straahdx-tunare> Viscous bite of chaos
<LuftEQ> ^ that one
<Gulbinos> could the bite be turned into a bite + heal over time ?
<Tearsin> Vicious Bite of Chaos (16105, 27541, 30820) and their respective recourses
<@Elidroth> I'll think about updating the bite AA, but I won't make it hit everyone
<Gulbinos> id be happy with just group
<Tearsin> also, Elidroth, it's less that Mom said 'no' so much as Mom has never responded to anything i've said about it for the last 3 years
<@Elidroth> that is in fact, a response
<@Elidroth> lol
<Klaian> I had to step a way, but did we come up with something to help out ranger melee?
<Tearsin> oh, well, there you go then
<Straahdx-tunare> He has you on /ignore tears lol.
<Shang> Last thing I suggested was Sinister Strikes. Didn't see a reply.
<Drozes> Possibly a bow-mastery/pathfinders attack(passive) aa. Elid will think about it
<Drozes> Klai
<xaroth> regarding the idea Shift made earlier about a tunnel vision type of debuff, could there maybe be some grp recourse accuracy mod to shortbuff, or something other usefull - would be a neat aa
<shiftee> i've actually not spoken to a single person that aristo has responded to ever
<@Elidroth> as I said yesterday (and today) offhand damage isn't something I can control. It's an on/off switch
<@Elidroth> Sinister Strikes CANNOT be upgraded
<Tearsin> he's responded to me plenty at fan faire and written down my thoughts in his little notebook, just nothing came of it in the spell side
<Sharkey-RF> Could rangers get some kind of mana refill? 20-25k?
<MetravTriton> Have we discussed a leve 100 version of Harmonious Arrow?
<irctc078> im curious Eli what ideas you may have to help ranger melee dps
<Rouan> Okay, since we're kinda running out of ideas since Hadce has most of the mana ones compiled and he's not here
<Shang> What kinds of things are you able to do for our melee damage? Accuracy? Triple attack effectiveness? Flurry?
<Rouan> Precision of the pathfinder: Doesn't seem to work, seems to share the same accuracy modifier with the accuracy mod2
<Rouan> Basically, any way we could get more accuracy out of it?
<Cisco> Could Vicious Bite of Chaos be upgraded to do like.. a 15k heal?
<@Elidroth> no
<Straahdx-tunare> Lol cisco.
<Laerz> Accuracy has very diminishing returns and PotP does work but since rangers have so many other accuracy modifiers it's not as big as it used to be
<@Elidroth> more accuracy is sort of possible, but it's hard to parse out the exact benefit from the amounts going in
<Gulbinos> our visage aa - could that be upgraded to afffect group members (at say 25% of what it affects the sk)
<@Elidroth> Visage is going to remain self only. Period.
<Straahdx-tunare> He already said visage will remain self only
<Cisco> and im not saying a 15k heal base...more on the lines of criting for that much
<Straahdx-tunare> Nvm me lol
<Sharkey-RF> What about a self only Divine intervention ability for SK's? Long reuse, could cost something expensive like an essence emerald
<@Elidroth> no
<Gulbinos> we have 2 harmshields doubt that woudl happen
<Straahdx-tunare> Second chance tribute
<gladare> Can Harmonious Arrow be upgraded to lvl 100?
<@Elidroth> AFK really quickly..
<Gulbinos> are their any suggestions on an aa that we could have to benefit a group to help our utility on raids that would be considered?
<irctc078> willing to add more ranks of planar durability?
<Klaian> I feel like ranger class just needs to be renamed as spell casting archers. Seems like anything that possibly help melee, the code is too broken.
<shiftee> group benefits have stacking problems, however that would be a good place to get aa torrents etc for sk - recoursing tanking mods like parry or dodge
<xaroth> I know its a spell, but it relates to the Voice of Thule aa upgrade - could you make the touch of klonda line hit the targets target instead, giving agro multiplier and hp decaying over time?
<Gulbinos> none of the sk spires affect group.. maybe make another rank for one of them that would?
<shiftee> he has no intention of messing with spires
<shiftee> from what he has said
<shiftee> i'd not even try there lol, b/c if he makes one for anyone he has to make 15 others
<LuftEQ> Personally I like the idea of AA torrents that do those things, Shiftee, but he'd probably have to run it by Aristo. Tbh I'd prefer them as spells than AAs anyway.
<Gudkaap> modifying our spires would mean across the board
<xaroth> 2nd spire is quite useless for sks tho
<shiftee> but a long re-use aa isn't a bad idea either
<shiftee> which is kind of what that demoralize aa was hinted at
<shiftee> decrease mob dodge improve group dodge
<shiftee> etc
<gladare> Elidroth has said our triple and flurry rates are too high already
<Gulbinos> charm resist aa was pretty hot
<shiftee> same could be done with things like ac, since your ac taps have stagnated
<shiftee> but it would have to stack with things like war outfitter etc not many ac slots open for short duration buffs
<xaroth> more so myrmidon skill
<shiftee> there are lots of useless spires btw
<@Elidroth> back
<shiftee> like the wizard crit mod where they already crit at 100% on a burn
<Shang> Lunch in 10 minutes right elidroth?
<@Elidroth> yes
<@Elidroth> the spires are now 5+ years old. While some abilities remain useful over time, not all will
<Ronthorn> chucky cheese?
<@Elidroth> personally, I'd rather let the spires go
<shiftee> you kind of went away from the flat damage increasers is that intentional?
<Gudkaap> how long a break for lunch will that be? sorry i am getting in here late...
<irctc078> what direction as far as melee is involved would you prefer rangers to focus on for upgrades Eli?
<Straahdx-tunare> Hour ish
<phynster> i know this is wrong day, but with the spires in mind first spire helps mages out a ton, even though its old it still increases our crit on nukes
<irctc078> ie flurry, triple attack, damage bonuses
<@Elidroth> I've already discussed a couple things for melee enhancements
<phynster> what bout defence enhancements? rangers could use them.
<Rouan> We're fine on defense other than protection of the spirit wolf needs another rank.
<Shang> To reiterate - Archery isn't touchable, After your changes, you'll be happy with Melee, and you don't want to mess with spell damage much.. Right?
<@Elidroth> Rangers are not tanks
<gladare> on the subject of defense, rangers have sunk huge amounts of aa's on protection of the spirit wolf. any chance in reducing the reuse much further and increasing the absorb amount?
<@Elidroth> possible
<Gulbinos> what about an aa line (for every class) like an ultimate sacrifice aa. where you get some crazy ability but it kills your character and you cant rezz back the xp?
<shiftee> an x. slot crit modifier by x% that excludes archery would probably be the best thing rangers could get for melee whether passive or active, most of the other avenues for them are already achieved via ohaste, attack, all skills mod etc on their short duration buffs, since HHE was turned down.
<@Elidroth> hahahaha
<@Elidroth> yeah.. that'll go over well
<phynster> so in other words, make ranger gate an aa?
<@Elidroth> I made an Ranger ability a couple years ago that was like that and Rangers HATED it
<Sharkey-RF> What about blood tithe aa's so ranger dots don't suck so much
<Ronthorn> lol
<Rouan> Well
<Rouan> that's ONE way to stop account charing
<Rouan> sharing*
<@Elidroth> I can enhance ranger dots
<Ronthorn> yeah and we got you to change it to Nature's Reprive if i recall right Elidroth
<gladare> Can Harmonious Arrow be upgraded to level 100?
<@Elidroth> yes
<@Elidroth> it can
<Questor> Eliroth - Ageless Enmity - Hastened/Another Rank perhaps ?
<Shang> I can't remember that AA's name, but Qulas said he was going to have the Rangers die before each event, as it'd increase the guild's DPS more than the Ranger would do... Which, was actually true when the effect was evaluated
<Shang> So yeah.. wasn't a huge fan of your death AA for rangers =p
<@Elidroth> No new rank. It was asked before. SK's are fine in hate generation
<phynster> what about a hasten called shot / extend?
<@Elidroth> Rangers don't need more ranged dps either
<@Elidroth> the last thing I want to do is make them MORE one dimensional
<Sharkey-RF> Quiet miracle for rangers, or Spirit of White Wolf rangerly aa's
<@Elidroth> and with that..
<LuftEQ> Elidroth, we're not worried about our hate generation as a general thing. We want the ability to get aggro (taunt) on a more reliable manner. With some of the events in VoA/RoF demanding a more rapid tank swap for reasons that I won't go into, it would be nice.
<@Elidroth> I'm going to lunch.
<Shang> By Ranged DPS, do you mean archery, spells, or the combo of the two?
<Cisco> serious, but not serious... could really go for that Levant AA right now >< at this very moment in EQ
<Shang> afk as well then
<@Elidroth> I'm not giving out Quiet Miracle to everyone. So stop asking.
<Gulbinos> any chance sk's could see hastened leechcurse discipline or gouging blade?
<Rouan> twas a quiet riot.... Enjoy your lunch, Eli
<gladare> Just burned a glyph of lost secrets. My mana lasted around 15 mins with 2 rod clicks.
<Voodoman> you're not supposed to use mana saving glyphs to save mana, that's preposterous
<Voodoman> you're supposed to burn it all then cry that you run out of mana too fast
<shiftee> voodo can i has death bloom?
<Voodoman> no!
<Shang> can i
<Voodoman> maybe
<Drozes> As Elidroth is away. Do you fellow Rangers know if Hastened Trueshot affects Sureshot.bullseye as they are on the same cooldown?
<illa> targettable db pls
<Cisco> i like that too gulb,, even some extended duration of leech curse would be nifty at times too. but just a shorter timer on it would be excellent
<Voodoman> illa, he said no to quiet miracle
<Voodoman> gosh
<Drozes> If it does not, hastens those bad boys
<illa> -hp+mana, not +hp+mana, clearly different
<Tura> Voodoo r necros going to ask for mgbable DB ?
<Voodoman> yes
<Tura> SICK
<illa> mgb in gl
<Voodoman> ^
<phynster> Drozes sureshot and trueshot are the same tome line
<Shang> back in a bit
<LuftEQ> Voodo, when we playing l4d2 so i can sweet talk u into giving sk death bloom?
<Drozes> awesome, thanks phyn
<Voodoman> our classes should share abilities
<Voodoman> gimme all your good stuff and you can have death bloom
<LuftEQ> u can have, um. our pet aas
<LuftEQ> seems fair.
<Voodoman> ours are already better
<shiftee> i want ec
<shiftee> thanks voodo
<Voodoman> man
<Voodoman> you just want to piss those warriors off don't you
<shiftee> all max
<Voodoman> can barely cast spells through it anymore anyway
<shiftee> mmmhmmmm
<shiftee> j/k
<Voodoman> it used to be click on afk rofl damage
<Voodoman> now it's like AM I GONNA DAMAGE IT IN TIME?
<illa> LuftEQ: pc or xbox?
<shiftee> i've got to say i am disappointed by the lack of hoards of rangers from eqlive in h ere
<shiftee> it is ruining my drinking ame
<shiftee> game*
<illa> i will kill the out of some zombies on steam
<illa> headshot!
<illa> headshot!
<illa> headshot!

<Tura> I want to see more zerkkin requests this year is missing that
<illa> better?
<Tura> hopefully voodoo wont dissapoint me when necros r up
<Voodoman> we're asking for necro headshot
<Rouan> I told you yesterday, Shiftee, most of 'em just can't be bothered to put in that kind of effort
<phynster> lol how would necros hs?
<Voodoman> works on every mob at 99% hp
<Voodoman> we just stare at them and they explode
<phynster> rofl
<Voodoman> gives triple exp also
<Drozes> Deathtouch
<Voodoman> no deathtouch is op
<Voodoman> don't be silly
<illa> dont you already have that
<Voodoman> yes death bloom does it too h4h4h4 never gets old
<Voodoman> it also killed osama bin laden and cured cancer
<illa> db op
<illa> nerf swiftbloom
<Rouan> I know, you guys should ask for an AA called Hoarder. It fills a mobs buff box entirely with debuffs only necros can overwrite
<Voodoman> we already have those
<Voodoman> :\
<Rouan> yea, but before someone could accidentally slow it and waste a spot
<illa> its called a raid leader
<Sharkey-RF> you should ask for a Death Touch PC aa so you can insta kill any non-necro who dots on raids
<Rouan> i don't think they'd wait for you to dot it before using it
<Voodoman> i have that already
<Voodoman> it's called a log file and my eye sight
<Voodoman> only hadce is immune
<LuftEQ> Voodo, stop spamming irc chat. omg.
<Qwestmode> i dot every day
<Voodoman> OMG GUISE
<Qwestmode> you mad voodo
<Voodoman> no you don't don't troll me
<Qwestmode> yeah i actually cast 1 but it makes you do more damage so its k
<Voodoman> oh that's ok then
<Qwestmode> plus fire debuff
<Voodoman> i like the beastlord dots the best
<shiftee> i help where ic an with my magic debuff
<illa> sunray so good
<Voodoman> 200/tick for 20 minutes? oh god pls
<shiftee> i keep that on 24/7
<Voodoman> always use
<Qwestmode> that magic debuff too op
<Qwestmode> they need to add that magic debuff onto that loyalty merchant ae stun
<Voodoman> they need to add death bloom on the loyalty merchant on a better recast, less hp damage and more mana
<Qwestmode> id go for that
<illa> too bad i have to a slot on the ice booster, no one uses those
<Golgi> has there been any actual SK AA discussion today? or just...this...?
<Terminat> yeah, you're just really late
<Voodoman> elidroth is on his break
<Voodoman> why you complain
<illa> eli is at lunch
<Voodoman> it's also sk and ranger
<shiftee> sks are getting soul abrassion
<shiftee> that is all you need to know
<Rouan> well, SKs do always seem to be chaffing
<shiftee> after 7 years of never ever again!
<Golgi> weird
<shiftee> though he wouldn't upgrade totc
<Voodoman> where's battleblade for some insight on classes he hates
<shiftee> i told him i think he had it backwards and he got mad
<shiftee> well not mad
<shiftee> but he was quick to say no
<Golgi> was there any discussion of the egn polls, raid role, etc?
<Rouan> you posting this one up when chat finishes, Shiftee?
<shiftee> but i don't get why he would say no to totc,
<shiftee> and yes to SA and not realize he was upgrading totc at the same time as well as all your other procs
<shiftee> nah i'll let somoene else do it
<Jerus> sk get upgrade to soul abrassion and SU... hmm i need to revise my "no" list =b
<shiftee> apparently people were not thrilled by my posting it
<Voodoman> shiftie post count padder
<Gulbinos> figure out a good utillity for sk's to use on raids - dont mention a group version of visage or any spires
<Golgi> SU?
<LuftEQ> Not gonna lie. When he said no to ToTC and SA I thought he had it backwards also.
<Terminat> i honestly don't know what this is for, b/c he seems to already have in mind what he's going to do and shoots down all other ideas
<Jerus> err pally SU sorry golgi
<shiftee> a group version of visage
<Golgi> got it
<Jerus> but either way things that were No for years getting a yes finally
<shiftee> is mostly pointless
<shiftee> since it is an all skills mod
<Golgi> yea, i'm with you now
<illa> he knows what hes not going to do
<shiftee> he is looking to tailor things to what people want
<Voodoman> he's got a check list
<shiftee> these chats are not pointless
<illa> but people can come up with new ideas
<Voodoman> no fade, no rez, no death bloom, no quiet miracle, no headshot
<Voodoman> no dps
<Gulbinos> no mercy!
<shiftee> as far as i can tell
<shiftee> he wants reasons for that specific class direction
<shiftee> as in we have mana issues isn't enough detail
<shiftee> nor is plz to have quiet miracle
<Jerus> i really hope they can do something to rez to give a little mana back with it
<Jerus> that'd be ideal to me =) being a bard and all lol
<Voodoman> don't even say the word bard
<illa> like just saying 'we need raid utility' isn't helpful, 'we want X so we are more useful on raids' is
<Voodoman> are you trying to scare him off
<Jerus> lol
<Golgi> what about "it's ridiculous to mem 9 different spells when i switch between DPS and tanking"?
<Voodoman> i'm a necro
<Jerus> thought he was on breaK? otherwise i wouldn't even be talking hehe
<Voodoman> let's fight
<shiftee> tearsin brought that up golgi
<shiftee> he didn't say much on the issue
<Terminat> what i want is completely offtopic; multi-page spell bar with pre-sets already memed
<shiftee> but most of the dps things asked for were ignored
<shiftee> not ignored
<shiftee> lol man
<Voodoman> denied?
<shiftee> rather he said no to
<shiftee> plz to hyrdocodone
<Jerus> man if i could just hotkey songs vs having to use the bar... would be sweet
<shiftee> i should have asked for aa nullify magic
<Jerus> lol
<shiftee> !
<shiftee> i hate the hotbar spell system etc
<Voodoman> i have like 6 hotbars and i only use 10 hotkeys
<shiftee> especially with these long cooldown spells they keep developing
<Voodoman> also i didn't read that right
<shiftee> lol
<Voodoman> so screw you!
<Terminat> spell bar should be paged, with a cooldown for swapping pages
<shiftee> no cooldowns
<Terminat> extended thru the aa system
<shiftee> spells are linked
<Jerus> i actually really like the idea of a spell bar, but the game has IMO gotten so far beyond balancing a spell bar and picking and choosing
<Jerus> easily seen with necros using 20 spells
<shiftee> and have cast times and recasts
<Jerus> it's hardly a limitation
<Jerus> just an annoyance
<Terminat> that's my aim, reduce annoyance, increase the fun
<shiftee> or stop making spells with 4 min reuse
<Voodoman> we don't use 20 spells
<Drozes> I like that we cna only have a X numbe ro fspells memed. Keeps it old school
<shiftee> but you could
<Voodoman> yeah
<shiftee> lol oldschool
<shiftee> i miss boats too
<Voodoman> i think shennron does 22 dots sometimes
<shiftee> and asking for ports
<illa> i hated boats
<illa> and being bugged for ports
<Drozes> I was a druid back then - so loved people needing ports)
<Voodoman> ports were the best, they cut your travel time down from 2 hours to 1 hour
<Voodoman> i remember the glory days
<Voodoman> of running longer than playing
<Drozes> lol
<illa> pok stones were my favorite addition, and i never used them
<Jerus> it was fun though
<Jerus> now travel is so easy it's just a time thing, back then there was risk to it
<Voodoman> run through chapterhouse
<shiftee> ok back to spreading my seed in the breeding grounds
<Drozes> aye, runnign through BB at lvl 7.... Stay on the road
<Rouan> back then i ran a level 6 ranger to Rivervale somehow from Qeynos
<Golgi> but why
<Rouan> just to do a stupid Halas quest
<Drozes> highpass hold was fun to get to
<illa> nothing hard about running through ch, and my ivu clickie is 15s
<Jerus> i'm a bard voodo, chapterhouse ain't bad
<Fatbuk> I used to run from Qeynos to Freeport, barefooted, in the snow, uphill, both ways
<Voodoman> those rats though
<Voodoman> surprise rat
<illa> rats like me
<Jerus> do they see regular invis? cause i don't remember having any issues other than the named
<Voodoman> the undead
<Voodoman> nor the necros
<Voodoman> like me
<Voodoman> so screw your class
<Rouan> and that stupid Halas quest for my efforts? Gave me 1 gold /sigh
<illa> cause necros hate everyone
<illa> esp other necros
<Voodoman> lies
<Rouan> Necros hate other necros unless that necro is raid leader
<Rouan> then he loves other necros, cause he wants it dead now
<Jerus> psh even necros don't like other necros at a point, debuff limit ftw =b
<simpleirc> Has alot been discussed? Never done Irc so took me a bot to get on.
<Rouan> yes, we're now reduced to joke necro suggestions
<illa> decent amount, eli is at lumch right now
<Tuldan> Im wondering what ranger stuff has been talked about too
<shiftee> i hope he is around later after these chats ar emostly done
<shiftee> i def forgot 2 major paladin aa lines that were not continued lol
<Rouan> Tuldan... I'll try and do a quick summary
<Drozes> Ranger Roundup so far:
<Beezy> Which shiftee?
<shiftee> blessing of life and healing light
<shiftee> lol
<shiftee> we forgot to ask for the standard upgrades
<simpleirc> ah gotcha. Please excuse the typing. I am on the smart phone. Anything new or exciting?
<Beezy> Hmm I thought those were upgraded loo
<Drozes> Potential Melee Damage Increase: Something like Bow Mastery/Pathfinder Attack(passive) for Melee.
<Drozes> Third Spire - Improvement.
<Drozes> Many current Hasteneing AA's gaining Ranks.
<Tuldan> they gettign rid of the spell absorb part?
<Drozes> yup, updating it to something
<Rouan> Stop asking about headshot, no hastened deluge (we're not healers), he'll look at accuracy, no archery damage increases, will talk to Aristo about fluster/bluster I think (currently it triggers poison arrows), no flurry/triple attack increases, will consider some sort of mana restoration, getting Spell Casting Mastery 4, Third Spire spell absorb getting improved or going away
<Tuldan> good, sucked havign a weapon proc drop my spire, =/
<Rouan> I think that's everything....
<Drozes> looks like it
<gladare> thinking about improving potsw, increasing HA to 100, thinking about decreasing cast time on vinelash
<illa> no hastened forage
<Rouan> oh yea, thanks Gladare
<gladare> thinking about adding hastened enraging kicks
<Tuldan> hey gladare
<Rouan> oh, and cutting Auspice cast time in half
<Drozes> ya just added the shorter spell cast to my list, u guys beat me to it
<Tuldan> he can only do half at most right?
<gladare> yes
<Rouan> correct
<Rouan> since it's a spell to be MGBable
<gladare> also mentioned adding an activated ability to help our melee
<Rouan> some weird code sorcery deal with the devil
<Tuldan> are the gotf and ggotf and oattack and stuff all gettign hastened to 5 min?
<gladare> well considered it
<Rouan> He's considering the hastens
<Rouan> each needs to be looked at individually
<gladare> he had a name for the dmg bonus passive aa. Close Combat Mastery. Basically adds x dmg to the end of a hit. increases in ranks. he wanted something he could control
<gladare> back to raiding
<Tuldan> any of the types of mana recovery discussed? he leaning 1 way more the another?
<illa> he's going to talk about hybrid mana problems with aristo
<gladare> oh sorry one last thing. he said he'd look into scout's mastery ice/fire
<Tuldan> ya, thats a controllable upgarde, can give us whatever power he thinks we need there
<Rouan> And yea, Hadce has most of our mana suggestions compiled and he's not here so we're gonna have him PM them to him
<Drozes> oh nice, ty fo rinfo gladare, didnt know he named it
<Tuldan> hope so, i can go oom in less then 3 min =/ and just mod rod to get some back
<Voodoman> death bloom quiet miracle hybrid
<Rouan> ...guess I'm gonna post this chat to EQLive boards
<shiftee> hadce will be here a bit later on
<shiftee> afkaik
<Rouan> since i can at least put a ranger summary in the first post... anyone want to summarize SKs for when it's over?
<Rouan> i figure SKs would rather summarize their own takeaways from the discussion heh
<Golgi> from what i've gathered, there is nothing to summarize yet
<simpleirc> Is anyone copying this chat like the pally/war chat from yesterday?
<Tuldan> oh, hastened cover tracks a yes no or maybe?
<Drozes> was Not a no
<Drozes> I think everything is a Maybe until it's live
<Rouan> I'm logging it all, Simpleirc
<Hatsee> Here, did you guys do anything?
<simpleirc> Thanks Rounan!
<Rouan> Scroll up a bit, Hadce
<Voodoman> you're getting death bloom
<Rouan> we just got finished summarizing most of the ranger stuff
<Drozes> Rouan - you're posting this on the eq forums?
<Rouan> yes
<Drozes> Ranger Roungup So Far:
<Drozes> Potential Melee Damage Increase: Something like Bow Mastery/Pathfinder Attack(passive) for Melee. Close Combat Mastery
<Drozes> Third Spire - Improvement to do with spell absorb.
<Drozes> Many current Hasteneing AA's gaining Ranks.
<Drozes> Possible 50% reduction(max) cast time on Vine Root and Aurpice.
<Drozes> Looking into Mastery for fire/ice
<Rouan> when it's all finished
<Drozes> NO Archery improvement.
<Drozes> NO hastening deluge
<Drozes> No triple or offhand increases
<Drozes> k, I got to go. GL guys. Thanks Elidroth
<Nolrog> Hola
<simpleirc> How did Sk discussion go?
<Tuldan> maybes on all the hasten aa's, will talk to aristo after gettin your mana recovery ideas, maybe on a new acivatable melaa ability, will look into oaccuracy
<Golgi> hi Nolrog
<Hatsee> You didn't present screw you I'm a bear?
<Tuldan> i wasnt here =)
<Hatsee> boo
<Tuldan> think rouan said somehing about u pm'ing them all the eli
<Hatsee> Like I'm looking at this and you clowns asked for dot crit increases or something?
<Tuldan> hope not
<Hatsee> You do know that unless our dot's get like double the base damage they are worthless compared to the nukes, right?
<Voodoman> ranger swift dots
<Rouan> just scroll up a bit where I did the blasted wall of text
<Hatsee> Well yeah, but that's aristo.
<Rouan> the summarization is all around there
<Tuldan> oohhh, and third spire fixed
<Hatsee> I read that, it's kind of bad.
<Rouan> well, there ain't exactly much we can ask for when range dps and flurry/triple is off the table
<shiftee> look at valorous rage crit modifier
<shiftee> and have it exclude
<Hatsee> There are tons of things that could be done, even if hhe is off the table.
<illa> dots are bad
<gladare> I left new stuff to people that came up with them or could explain them
<Rouan> well, he wants more control over how much our melee dps gets increased
<illa> SKs are asking for better damage without using a ton of dots, rangers are wanting to use their dots
<Rouan> which seems to be a bow mastery esque damage per swing increase he wants
<Hatsee> I don't want to use my dots,
<Rouan> That was Shang considering group
<gladare> Only one person brought up the DoT increases

<Rouan> which i don't blame, if we're gonna have the stupid things, they could at least be useful
<Hatsee> Asking for 50 dps upgrades to melee is useless, especially as a new aa line.
<Arthion> Hello
<Rouan> actually, going the bow mastery route gives him the ability to pretty closely increase our dps to what he wants, which makes it less likely he lowballs the numbers
<shiftee> still in need of a burst melee increase though
<shiftee> the flat dmg increasers are very :/
<Hatsee> The flat increases are useless.
<Hatsee> Very useless
<Rouan> we also asked for a mini-shaman epic basically I think
<Hatsee> Utterly useless
<Rouan> don't remember if that got a response
<Rouan> big problem is he doesn't want to increase our ranged dps, and most activated AAs affect that
<shiftee> there are ways to limit that though
<Rouan> Could have an AA that simultaneously nerfs archery damage
<Rouan> to get around that
<shiftee> he could also give you a spammable ability that has a range of 10-15
<Hatsee> You can't do that.
<Tuldan> so he wont make gotf ad more damage casue he doesnt want higher multipliers for archery?
<gladare> He likes our range dps where it is now
<Ashran> so stagnate range dps but increase flat melee dmg? no burst melee dmg increase?
<gladare> haven't covered burst melee yet
<Tuldan> we know when hes coming back?
<gladare> said an hour for lunch
<Rouan> 15-30 minutes I'd imagine
<Arthion> what was covered so far? sorry I just got here
<phynster> ranger melee dps, range is already too good. no chance of rangers getting hp or ac upgrades. that bout sums it up
<phynster> oh and no hs ranks this expansion
<Tuldan> no hs is just fine
<Arthion> no hs is fine by me
<Shang> back
<illa> hastened headshot?
<Hatsee> Yes
<Hatsee> Actually he should make them all scale with weapon damage, that pretty much makes them useless for 99% of rangers and probably the others.
<Arthion> no new HS...next...no melee dps upgrades...no ranged upgrades...so what the heck is there to talk about
<Tuldan> melee increase and mana recovery are the 2 biggies
<@Elidroth> sorry.. back
<@Elidroth> had a minor disagreement with law enforcement
<Shang> curb stomp em?
<@Elidroth> I didn't think I was speeding.. and they did
<Shang> were you
<Fatbuk> check the logs
<@Elidroth> I was.. but with the flow of traffic
<shiftee> lol :/
<Arthion> did you tell them you had to get back to your IRC chat
<@Elidroth> it wasn't like I was going nuts or anything
<Shang> sounds like he knew who you were, and was mad at no headshot increases.
<@Elidroth> lol
<LuftEQ> Should have explained calmly that the fate of SK and rangers hung in the balance and that you were needed elsewhere.
<@Elidroth> yeah.. cause you REALLY needed them right?
<@Elidroth> since most servers 1st player to 100 was a ranger who was headshotting
<Golgi> did you calmly explain that you have an IRC channel awaiting your return? sure they would have understood
<Shang> I was one of the only rangers advocating aganst increasing it actually =p
<Shang> I'll still use/abuse the crap out of it
<Shang> But I realize it's terrible for the game lol
<Rouan> It's not terrible if I can headshot freaking Zek Bros in SoD
<Rouan> >_>
<Rouan> (pretty sure they're tagged extraplanar anyways, so it's moot!)
<@Elidroth> so anyway
<@Elidroth> I'm not sure where I said no melee increases.. because that's exactly and 100% wrong
<Rouan> think he meant bow
<Shang> You didn't say no melee increases, you just said no to almost everything that increases melee.
<Rouan> well, ranged
<@Elidroth> last I checked, bow != melee
<phynster> i said melee increase no chance of ranged
<@Elidroth> I mean.. unless you're running up to a mob and swinging your bow at it
<Shang> Can we get an AA for that?
<phynster> ooh can we do that?
<Rouan> don't give us ideas
<@Elidroth> no
<@Elidroth> it'd be pretty funny though
<gladare> it's kind of like a big stick
<@Elidroth> kind of like throwing your gun at a bad guy when out of ammo
<illa> they have pokey bits on them
<Shang> bayonet
<Rouan> they're called bow staves for a reason
<Rouan> heh
<Tuldan> i wasnt here for the first part of the chat but, but others mentioned something that adds a flat amount of damage to the end of each melee hit. This isnt very helpful unless we are talking big numbers added, but 50 per rank isnt going to cut it
<Mluian_Xegony> Fade delay down in the 30 second realm I'd like cover tracks upgraded to
<Shang> lol
<@Elidroth> so I could be mean, and spread the melee added damage AA out to each weapon type, or I could just keep it in 1 aa
<Shang> this guy
<Arthion> I would like to see a faster recast of cover tracks as well
<Shang> how do we convince you to make it 1 aa?
<Rouan> we already pay a lot for the Scouts Mastery line /puppydogeyes
<@Elidroth> I'm not going to.. I was just being sarcastic
<@Elidroth> Cover Tracks can have a faster reuse time.. but it's going to be a reasonable change
<random_guy> anyong bring up Headshot yet?
<Tuldan> no hs, its not needed
<Shang> go home random_guy, you're drunk
<Rouan> what about the phantom cast time on Cover Tracks?
<Arthion> Ok, what kind of change? like we can cast on the run =)
<@Elidroth> what phantom cast time?
<Rouan> that 0.5 seconds is more around 1-1.5 when you factor in we need to stop
<Hatsee> Reasonable to whom?
<Rouan> it's a 0.5 second cast time that's invisible to the player
<Rouan> since it's apparently a discipline cast time, not a spell one
<Rouan> or something
<Rouan> i dunno, it's weird
<phynster> so eldroith can u explain why u cant use arrows again alarans in underground city?
<Hatsee> Ah that, yeah the cast bar disappeared at least a year ago, didn't it?
<Rouan> i'm not sure it ever had one
<Hatsee> I'm pretty sure it did, long ago.
<@Elidroth> I can half the cast time to .25 sec, but I'm not making it instant
<Rouan> maybe when it was still in beta and group
<Shang> when you hit Cover Tracks, and it interupts, it says your combat ability has been interupted.
<Arthion> I like a shorter cast time
<Shang> whereas Auspice says spell has been interupted
<@Elidroth> as far as hastened..
<@Elidroth> I'll give you 4 ranks to make it 5 min
<Arthion> $$$$
<Hatsee> I will take that but only if you throw in silent casting.
<Rouan> heh
<Ryneis> Is open discussion for all both classses?
<Shang> Not the 3 minutes that Clerics/Paladin have? =p
<gladare> without the spell casting subtlety aa's lmao
<Xranix> for SK can we get something like an upgraded version of dark empathy, or a reverse leach touch to take our hp and heal another?
<@Elidroth> Next person who complains that cover tracks isn't on the same timer as CLR/PAL causes you to lose a rank
<Golgi> So for SKs: I missed the morning session, and all I've really heard is a yes on Soul Abrasion. Are there areas you are looking at that you want input on? Any other decisions you have made or areas you are focusing on so we can direct you to our ideas accordingly? Have you seen the EGN polls?
<gladare> hrm what about wizards? fastest of them all
<Tadenea> just got home was possible increase ranks of Nature's Reprieve and Intrinsic Efficiency brought up?
<@Elidroth> I'm joking.. but seriously.. there will NEVER be 100% class parity for all abilities. Get over it.
<Hatsee> Along that thought Tad, did harmonious arrow come up? It needs a new rank to keep up with the new level cap.
<Shang> but dad
<Tuldan> id be up for ignorign the cast time if it can get hastened more =)
<gladare> HA was a yes
<Arthion> I think 5 min is fair for a fade.
<Tuldan> much better then 9
<Rouan> Nature's reprieve he said he'd consider another rank I think
<Arthion> much
<Tuldan> can we make new rank of natures repive fire at 30%? rarely fires below 20%
<@Elidroth> Intrinsic Efficiency is at 50% right now.. I'm not going to increase it any right now
<Mluian_Xegony> Would like pack hunt upgrade so it reduces push and contributes some useful, 100 dps is terrible
<gladare> I would like all spam pets to die
<Rouan> ^
<Gulbinos> for sk aa's was the option of some hastened leechcurse aa's discussed?
<Ajimani> rather see innate mistwalker proc than increases to spam pets
<Tuldan> i only use spam pets if im moloing a named i hope th epush can interupt a spell on, lol
<@Elidroth> Pack Hunt is a swarm pet. They were never intended to be more than a visual DOT
<@Elidroth> they are not real pets, never will be real pets, and never will compete with pets
<@Elidroth> There is no way for me to reduce push on pets.
<phynster> so are druid pets. they are not real pets
<Ajimani> reduce the number and increase the damage
<@Elidroth> end result = same push
<Golgi> Is there any chance of push being removed from the game altogether?
<Ajimani> push is based on damage then?
<@Elidroth> we've talked about it
<Shang> make the pet a wizard with unresitable spells =p
<Golgi> stalemate?
<@Elidroth> what we've settled on right now is PCs and pets won't push npcs, but regular NPC will continue to push players as normal
<Golgi> ooh. nice
<shiftee> hrm
<@Elidroth> but until it gets on code's priority list.. it doesn't really matter
<Straahdx-tunare> Nice
<shiftee> that is nice
<Gulbinos> how about an upgrade to projection of doom for sk's that tosses out 2-3 projections instead of 1?
<shiftee> but, did you discuss reducing that push at all?
<Hatsee> New ability, summon corner?
<shiftee> for npc> player?
<Shang> authorize some overtime for Rtugok np
<@Elidroth> Why Gulbinos?
<@Elidroth> what benefit is there for that at all?
<shiftee> ^ the pets have huge hp and can offtank an add lol
<@Elidroth> other than cluttering up the screen with MORE swarm pets
<Hatsee> Oh yeah, did you get the ability to make free target abilities with aa's yet?
<@Elidroth> no
<Gulbinos> ok point taken - instant cast AE?
<Hatsee> =/
<Golgi> no one who has ever heard of an everquest raid wants more swarm pets. if they say they do, they are trolling
<@Elidroth> I haven't gotten any of the code changes I've requested yet
<@Elidroth> other things have just taken priority
<Ryneis> Golgi:any idea what sk stuff had been discussed? All i see is ranget.
<Tuldan> mana recovery is aristo's department?
<@Elidroth> not so much his dept as it's something we want to work on together
<Golgi> When I asked for a summary, Basically only confirmed that Soul Abrasion will get an upgrade
<LuftEQ> Most of the SK stuff has been discussed and answers given one way or another. Big stuff - More SA and faster HA.
<Tuldan> k
<Ryneis> Thanks
<Xranix> for SK can we get something like an upgraded version of dark empathy, or a reverse leach touch to take our hp and heal another?
<@Elidroth> no. you're not a healer.
<Golgi> LuftEQ just gave the opposite summary as everyone else who gave one
<@Elidroth> lol.. SK summary
<Gulbinos> what about a hate's attraction like spell with an AE component ? that would summon all mobs around your target
<@Elidroth> Demoralize - new ability - similar to Tunnel Vision
<@Elidroth> Soul Abrasion
<LuftEQ> It's not really a summary as it is that he's either said yes, no, i'll think about it, and maybe to things
<@Elidroth> Voice of Thule - new rank
<@Elidroth> Hastened Hate's Attraction
<@Elidroth> Cascading Theft of Life and Defense - POSSIBLE new ranks
<Golgi> Voice of Thule new rank...more hate, or...?
<@Elidroth> Embrace the Decay type ability
<@Elidroth> Vicious Bite of Chaos upgrade - main & recource
<@Elidroth> then things I need to discuss with Aristo
<@Elidroth> Provocation for Power extension
<Gulbinos> ohh new VOT would it raise the hate % mod?
<@Elidroth> Touch of the Curse upgrades
<@Elidroth> plus some other stuff
<Golgi> will your discussions with Aristo include any ideas to reduce how many spell gems we have to use for DPS?
<Straahdx-tunare> Thanks elidroth
<Ryneis> Elidroth:TYVM
<@Elidroth> not likely Golgi..
<@Elidroth> Rangers have definitely been more vocal here today
<xaroth> provo for power .5 cast time too ?
<xaroth> via hastened aas
<LuftEQ> ^ this would be awesome.
<Shang> lies, rangers are quiet
<Golgi> Eli, have you seen the polls we did on EGN?
<@Elidroth> too much of the SK comments have been borderline Zerkkin level stuff
<@Elidroth> I have not
<Fatbuk> Zerkkin McDerppin
<Golgi> we polled class needs. results were raid utility, and DPS shift away from 12 spell gem requirements...
<@Elidroth> here's the problem I think..
<Rouan> you heard it here first folks, ranger comments weren't the most insane!
<Hatsee> Raid utility means what to sk's?
<Fatbuk> what is defined as "raid utility"?
<@Elidroth> if we get your dps into 9 gems, you'll just fill those 3 with more dps and then complain you're still using 12..
<Shang> BOOSTS
<Golgi> I have specific examples...
<Ajimani> depends on timers really
<Golgi> and ways to get away form that
<Shang> sounds like you need to lock some spell lines together
<Golgi> from*
<Straahdx-tunare> I know you said funeral pyre was broken, not didn't mention anything like a copy of gift of deathly resolve. With looking at?
<Ajimani> I'm not keen that as a ranger I have nukes from the previous expansion that must be used to achieve reasonable DPS
<Ajimani> nor was I happy as a SK that I had to have 2 expansions worth of life taps up all the time
<Hatsee> You do not use those anymore.
<Hatsee> Last minute changes to nukes in beta cleared like half our spell bars for rangers.
<phynster> i use 5 dots on my ranger just for decent dps lol
<Shang> oh wow
<Hatsee> ...
<@Elidroth> a Deathly Resolve ability was mentioned for your Spear line specifically.. I said I'd look into it
<Rouan> i don't want to live on this planet anymore
<Fatbuk> move to Luclin
<Ajimani> at the expense of dumping mana, until that gets resolved the spam nuke is last on the priority to cast
<gladare> I use FS, FRoA, current elementals, and summer's for dd's
<Golgi> to Eli's last point, it's because all but 4 of our DPS spell gems are instant cast. those 4 gems don't take up enough casting time with their cooldowns
<Shang> gladare is close
<Golgi> thats one. also something along the lines of funeral pyre
<Straahdx-tunare> You're right. I forgot about that. Sorry Elidroth.
<@Elidroth> when I can get code time to make Funeral Pyre work correctly..
<@Elidroth> we have a lot of spell effects that work in VERY dumb ways that Aristo and I are trying to get changed, but so far just haven't had priority
<Golgi> further correction of the "full-spell-bar-requirement" spills over to Aristo
<Golgi> well that's promising
<LuftEQ> The way I see it is we're a tank. When we tank we use a handful of spells. If I want to heal I only dedicate 3 spells. If I want to tank I use just a few spells. If I want to 'maximuze my dps' I have to use an entire spell bar and run the risk of having a necromancer send me death threats. Personally I don't care about taking up buff slots, it's the amount of work disparity that we have to do to generate dps as a class that bothers me.
<@Elidroth> yeah.. I have ZERO control over that
<@Elidroth> I don't see a problem with that Luft..
<Golgi> Aristo does BP clickies as well?
<@Elidroth> no.. that's Chandrok
<Ajimani> I have a problem with getting death threats personally
<Shang> Pretty sure I've received more death threats from this game than all of you put together.
<@Elidroth> I'll say this just like I did yesterday..
<Straahdx-tunare> Put your necros on ignore. Problem solved!
<@Elidroth> Too many people are worried about their place in the parse.
<@Elidroth> Did Boss die? Did people get cool loot?
<Voodoman> increase the debuff capacity so people can use their abilities
<@Elidroth> If yes, and you had fun, ignore the damn parse
<@Elidroth> No Voodoman.. You know EXACTLY what will happen if we do that
<Hatsee> ...
<Hatsee> But we can make the boss die faster.
<Voodoman> i know people will use their spells more often
<Hatsee> If you cared about our place on the parse.

<Fatbuk> 36 man Necro Raids
<@Elidroth> no.. guilds will just add another Necro and fill it INSTANTLY
<Arthion> it is not about top parser, but rather maximizing our dps to make others better
<phynster> with a mage tank
<illa> EC tank rotation
<Shang> Sounds like you need to nerf necros then
<Voodoman> why can we have 10 rogues though?
<@Elidroth> because they stack better
<Hatsee> We have like 5.
<Voodoman> yes, a lot better
<Voodoman> lot more damage
<@Elidroth> because we don't have a good solution right now to Necros 'needing' to cast 21 DOTs or some nonsense
<Shang> they only burn for 150k, leave rogues alone sheesh
<Ryneis> Not a raider here but think problem comes into raid spots for sks. They seem to get customize so much which is why sks were asking for raid utility
<Hatsee> So
<Tuldan> has protection of the spirit wolf been brought up? with how mobs hit today its gone in a copule rounds
<Shang> yes
<Hatsee> How about an aa to make us mem spells faster and lower the reuse on forceful rejuvention so you can swap faster. Don't add this to necromancers.
<Hatsee> Ever
<Ajimani> lol
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Were we able to get VoD Upgraded? if we have problems with Swarming, perhaps adjust it so it has a DD proc instead of base damage. So it can be a bit stronger (scaling with teh expansion) Rather then nerf by omission/.
<@Elidroth> Video on Demand?
<shiftee> lol
<Fatbuk>
<shiftee> also % abilities aren't nerfed by omission
<Ajimani> if they wanted to scale swarming, hs, assisnate they could. by nerf by ommission they are saying they want to eliminate it
<LuftEQ> Which, that's the problem with Shadow Knights. The 2 biggest forms of utility in the game are ADPS, which is a run away train in buff format, and healing. Shadow Knight's currently do none of this, nor do we have a claim to these in any fashion. Outside debuffs like the upcoming demoralize we're at a standstill.
<@Elidroth> I wouldn't mind giving you some sort of activated proc effect that would help other classes do more as an ADPS sort of thing, but you already have WAY too many proc buffs
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Well the deal is, Visage of Death is our dps burn. Could you make it INCREASE our procs or proc intensity while its active?
<Fatbuk> with SKs being the "DPS" tank, would an SK ADPS thing be something to add more raid utility?
<Sharkey-RF> Could we get Convergence? /shrugs
<Phyros-InverseLogic> No, I don't really want to be DPS, but here's the deal. W e can't heal, We can't tank like Warriors, We *KINDA* can kite (Paladins are better).
<Ajimani> screw kiting
<Ryneis> Not a raider so passing that to raiding sks
<Phyros-InverseLogic> So its a delicate balance of trying to make our class be a bit more "wanted" on raids.
<Ajimani> done enough of that
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Pallys Im sure will say the same with Splashing Ajmani!
<Fatbuk> what can an SK do that a Pally can't currently do better along with having Splash
<Golgi> From our EGN polls: A group effect with a proc-on-cast effect (maybe 15-35% chance to fire) that provides a large boost to the next 1-3 spells cast. Said boost could take the form of a substantial Increase Spell Damage modifier (likely in the neighbourhood of 80-100%) or a forced crit (Increase Chance to Critical Nuke by 10000%). Alternatively, this could take the form of augmenting healing
<Golgi> spells rather than damage spells.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> So, we either work on Fluff / Functionality aa requests. We are by far a stronger tank then a Paladin Fat.
<@Elidroth> and both knights should be getting stronger as tanks too
<Phyros-InverseLogic> So, if we can't heal then our remaining focus's are limited to CC / Tanking / DPS.
<Ajimani> far to dependent on the player phyros
<Voodoman> both knights are more terrible than warriors and warriors are more terrible than both knights
<@Elidroth> yeah.. it just depends upon whom you ask
<Phyros-InverseLogic> That goes with out saying, *BUT* I'm comfortable saying that I tank better, and there is a MUCH Higher net gain from having a SK tank then a paladin.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> SK - Cheer leader, paladin can Net gain on heals.
<Voodoman> that's why i suggest we use rangers as tanks
<Ajimani> and all are worse than mage pets ...
<Ryneis> As far as group game, any chance of a sk necro rb aa?
<Voodoman> have you SEEN that weaponshield
<Ajimani> sorry had to be said
<Phyros-InverseLogic> So, as a RL, SK Owns tanking vs a paladin.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Anyways, No class comparisons sorry!
<phynster> HEHE i love my mage pet tank
<illa> because most paladins are awful
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Elidroth did you have some direction you were thinking about taking the SK's or were you mostly considering having the 2 Knights continue to be somewhat interchangeable?
<phynster> too bad cant tank with pet and do melee dps with ranger
<Ajimani> from what I can see palladins and sks are interchangeble given player skill
<Voodoman> they're not even close to interchangeable
<Voodoman> one of them heals like a cleric
<Voodoman> the other is half necro
<Ajimani> feh, more like 10%
<@Elidroth> interchangeable preferrably
<Phyros-InverseLogic> From a raid perspective is interchangeable Voodoman.
<Fatbuk> but it can't be half necro on a raid because the debuff limit
<Ryneis> Was rb brought up for sks?
<Golgi> the only thing half necro about SKs is how many spell gems you need to DPS
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Sk's due to the debuff limitation really are held back on the raids since 1/3 of their dps is unable to be used.
<Straahdx-tunare> Yes. No'
<Voodoman> you can only have fun until it comes to debuffs
<Tearsin> old and minor issue, Elidroth - would you be willing to look at reducing the cast time on Scourge Skin? as a damage shield buff, the cast time makes it hard to channel through he situations it is best used in
<Ajimani> same is true of every class that has dots
<Voodoman> then you'd better be counting your pennies
<Beezy-ipad> Phyros is lame, nough said
<Phyros-InverseLogic> a Focused AA that allows us to have 1 Dot up, that amplifies the dot, but IF we cast a second dot / spell it fades off.
<LuftEQ> I agree phyros. If we had a faster casting nuke. Something like the ranger's summer line, but maybe checked against disease/poison, we could do slightly more raid dps without making voodo send me hate/love tells.
<@Elidroth> best I can do with that is take it down to 1 sec
<Phyros-InverseLogic> So if the base is say 1400, and we crit at 8k, its base is 3x say 4200, and crits for 24k (or something similar) Allows us to use 1 dot, and get some decent gain from it.
<illa> would make scourge skin more usable
<Tearsin> that would be fine, i wasn't expecting instant or anything
<@Elidroth> yep
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Lines to increase (scourgeskin, can we increase the damage?)
<Tearsin> it's something like 3 seconds right now, just feels like a bit much when you're trying to channel through several mobs
<shiftee> sk irc chat summary over the last 10 min > buff paladins
<Phyros-InverseLogic> (requests) AA to decrease the reuse timer on our Disc leech Curse?
<Beezy-ipad> Lolshiftee
<Golgi> yea, did the conversation get trolled this hard yesterday?
<@Elidroth> I really don't want to increase the damage on scourge skin
<Phyros-InverseLogic> (requests) Hastened VOD, Frequently used at 15 mins instead of 20 mins.
<Shang> Elidroth - Rangers last got 'Hunter's Attack Power' in House of Thule.. There a chance we can get our VoA, and RoF version?
<Synnun> Is there gonna be a new bullseye?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> (SK-request) 1 tick Flash of anger Like AA.
<Hatsee> bullseye = disc
<Synnun> meh true
<@Elidroth> I can add a few ranks of Hunter's Attack Power
<Gulbinos> could you allow thought leech to give mana to the whole group?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> (Sk-REquest) Increased ranks in our Run Speed so we can have Run Speed 8 (Since we pull)
<Shang> Should be 10 more ranks of it
<@Elidroth> I'd have to make a new version that gives it back at a much reduced amount
<@Elidroth> No on run speed
<Synnun> Increases in spice,gotf,and ggotf?
<Hatsee> Hunter's Attack Power was our innate attack that someone broke, you can't reduce it...
<Rouan> In regards to an activated damage AA for rangers, any chance of talking to Aristo about Jolting/Enraging getting a big damage boost?
<Straahdx-tunare> Does Aristo have these chats also, or is Elidroth the only one who listens to the players in an open format like this?
<Golgi> I kinda like the group thought leech.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> BTW at work so kinda blasting thru my list apolgies for spam. SanDiego Traffic sucks if you get caught in it.
<Rouan> that was to thought leech, Hat... i think
<Hatsee> Oh
<Hatsee> heh
<Ajimani> just need a bigger bite aa then
<Shang> Hunter's Attack Power was supposed to be granted at every level, started at level 55.. It just didn't get done in VoA/RoF
<@Elidroth> I do AA. If you have spell questions, PM Aristo
<Phyros-InverseLogic> (SK-Request) Make our PET worth something on the burn? Could we have some kinda Frenzy ability on our pet that allows it to hit for far harder, for a semi short duration. That way we kind of HAVE to keep Boney alive?
<Ajimani> explode him
<Kaliko> Is it possible if rangers could get some form of sustained melee dps boost? With the new spells and summers we run oom faster and end up medding more than any other class.
<Arthion> Any increase to Auspice, and group guardian?
<Gulbinos> thought leech is stll a 24 mins timer so thats really only 1x per raid event if u use it mid event.. i dont think it would need reduced
<Ryneis> What about a aa proc that works similar to rb proc...
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Exploding him might damage stuf faroudn it, and its 11k base damage.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Theres really No point.
<Straahdx-tunare> Already said no to that Ryn
<Ryneis> Could be health, mana, adps or whatever is desired
<Phyros-InverseLogic> I tend to need burns / discs every 15-24 mins Gul.
<Ryneis> We cast alot so have an increased chance to proc based on our number of dots for dps
<Gulbinos> thats what im saying so being able to use that 1x in that timeframe would be acceptable i would think and a very nice raid utility for us
<Gulbinos> or lessen the amount of mana it gives back - and allow it to tap endo too (for melee's)
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Elidroth btw thanks for unlinking our HT / LT / TL. The TL really makes a big difference.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Why not jsut ask for more twin case Ryneis?"
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Whats the timer on LC Gul? Isn't it like 40 or somethning?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Elidroth Any chance of getting some sort of Focus effect so we can decrease the numbe rof dots we need to maintain ? IE 1 dot, Focused does STRONG damge but if we use others in conjunction it goes normal?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Overall effect is Lower then stacking 6-10, but more net gain for the raid.
<Gudkaap> I wouldn't mind a reuse reduction on TL if it was just simply to bring it back in sync with LT
<Tearsin> personally i'd rather just see vicious bite of chaos do more than add the same effect to another spell
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Like an AA lifetap Tears?
<Gulbinos> LC is still over an hour
<Gudkaap> having AA abilities that lock eachother out that have different reuse timers is awkward at best
<@Elidroth> those often generate a truckload of bug reports from people who don't read forums..
<Phyros-InverseLogic> If the problem is we have too many procs, not enough dps, and can't get Spell slots on boss mobs, we either need to get a Stronger dot that justifys using it and taking a slot, or amplifying our DD's / procs. Maybe an AA that for 90 seconds all our procs are bigger. OR a shorter one (30 seconds) and we proc frequently
<Voodoman> who reads the bug reports ehehe
<Voodoman> kidding
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Did Elidroth give any feed back on the "Flash of Anger" for Knights?
<Sharkey-RF> What about Bane of Muram as an aa to temporarily increase our dot damage? Probably no lol
<Gudkaap> nm what i just said, I was unaware of the effects of the 2nd rank of thoughtleech
<@Elidroth> no on Flash of Anger
<@Elidroth> that's a warrior ability
<Gulbinos> first spire already amplifies dots sharkey
<Kaliko> knights have aggro problems?
<@Elidroth> nope
<LuftEQ> Would it be possible for SKs, and paladins for that matter, to get a version of the Hastened taunt line that warriors get? Similar to how they have the 'best version of shield specialist'.
<Gulbinos> i wouldnt mind seein a timer reduction on unholy aura discipline that would also increase dps and surviveability
<phynster> so whats summary of ranger atm?
<Synnun> how about a hastened death's effigy rank that would make a world of difference
<Ryneis> Tc would be ok. Wad thinking about the group and raid benefits of a rb proc whether hps adps mana or some combo
<Synnun> by like 15 seconds
<Synnun> for sk
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Elidroth did you say that Knights would be getting a bit stronger in tanking, closing the gap slightly with Warriors?
<@Elidroth> in their carapace abilities yes
<@Elidroth> not innate ability to tank - no
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Could we gtet an AA that hastens our reuse timers on our defensive? When things get ugly its forever + 1 to get them back up
<@Elidroth> No chance on Hastened Death's Effigy
<@Elidroth> absolutely no chance
<Synnun> lol kk
<Synnun> carapace is a disc for sk so let's talk ranger discs!
<Synnun> we keeping bullseye from hot?
<@Elidroth> talk all you like.. I'll wait
<Shang> lol
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Ha the problem is being around 12 + years its hard to ocme up with "new" aa's or asking for aa's that dont' blur the class lines.
<Tuldan> no increase to archery damage synnun
<Arthion> Elidroth, are rangers getting an upgrade to Auspice or Group guardian?
<Voodoman> has "screw you I'm a bear" been presented yet?
<Tuldan> lol
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Elidroth any chance in getting an AA that allows our pet to do signficantly more damage?
<Tuldan> i guess its not all about mana recovery =)
<Kaliko> Elidroth, is it possible rangers could get something like monks zan fi aa buff that lasts 6 mins or so to boost our sustained dps in groups?
<@Elidroth> quickened auspice yes, upgrade to auspice I haven't decided
<Beezy-ipad> Well for knights, both classes would it be possible to get aa to hasten our main defensive discs? I would like that on paladin as well, both knight classes could benefit from that.
<gladare> zan fi isn't worth getting
<Phyros-InverseLogic> oR are you more or less doing away with Swarm pet usability / pet Useability for knights?
<@Elidroth> no Beezy
<Beezy-ipad> Ok
<@Elidroth> Swarm Pets are nothing more than visible DOTs
<Phyros-InverseLogic> AA recast timer reduction request for our AA summoning, reducing it to 1.0 Min
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Yep, lets make those dots useful!
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Otherwise lets ditch them and take the load off the server.
<@Elidroth> if you're so concerned about server load, just don't use them
<gladare> the bear aa would have to have the hit damage mod removed if it's going to be presented
<Kaliko> or is it possible rangers could get a low reuse dps disc that isn't tied to bullseye's timer?
<@Elidroth> le sigh
<Phyros-InverseLogic> I'm not remotely concerned, but Its hard to know what to request that doesn't cause everyone else to get up in arms.
<Shang> By disc, he means something like the Zan Fi AA for Monks
<Kaliko> yeah not something massive dmg, but small and worthwhile to use
<Arthion> We are talking aa's here, not spells and discs
<Gulbinos> Did the idea of having a sk ability to resist charm gain any legs?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> We have stuff thats not overly useful and hasn't scaled with the mobs. Swarm Pets - Were useful when they came out, now they are barely 5% of a mobs health.
<@Elidroth> no, it did not
<Kaliko> the gained damage from gotf lines and outriders accuracy is weak I feel
<Voodoman> swarm pets are stupid and cause stupid problems in stupid ways
<Voodoman> i'm offended you want more of them
<Phyros-InverseLogic> AA- For Increasing Sk Accuracy remotely possiable?
<Tearsin> i'd chime in support for another few ranks of chattering bones - not for more skeletons, not longer duration, just a bit more damage per hit from the guys
<@Elidroth> OUCH
<@Elidroth> 30 ppl laid off at Trion
<Gudkaap> don't we already have enough toptions to increasing our accuracy
<Voodoman> what's that
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Rebalancing Old aa's for AA costs is mostly what I think I'm looking for.
<Arthion> Trion makes Rift
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Check your parses our accuracy isnt that great.
<@Elidroth> Huh Phyros?
<Voodoman> you said the p word
<Voodoman> elidroth gonna beat you now
<@Elidroth> I'm not reducing old AA costs
<Phyros-InverseLogic> I didn't reques tthat, I'm requesting the ability to SPEND aa's to bring OLD abilitys up to a more useful point
<Shang> I beta'd RIFT. The only remotely fun part of it were the rifts.
<Gudkaap> and if any change were to happen to chattering bones, it would be to increase their ability to persist through AE's and ramages
<Gudkaap> IMO that is
<Kaliko> were those using a 2h or 1h phyro?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Either Or.
<Hatsee> K
<Beezy-ipad> Phyros tanks with 2 handed
<Phyros-InverseLogic> With Deflection!
<Beezy-ipad> No joke!
<Gudkaap> they don't last at all vs a mob that ae dmg's via spell or melee and then it's a wasted keystroke
<Beezy-ipad> Lol
<Tearsin> Elidroth i don't have the numbers in front of me, what is the current % mod on BloodThirsty Blade, please?

<Phyros-InverseLogic> True Gud, but that means they are situatinal, it might not be always a good time to sue it.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> err Use it
<@Elidroth> Bloodthirsty Blade currently adds 800dmg per hit
<Gudkaap> true but most group bosses and raid bosses employ some sort of ae
<Arthion> Can we get a recap of what you ARE giving rangers so far please?
<Gudkaap> and usually within melee range, where the pets need to be
<Tearsin> ah OK, i didn't realize it was just a +damage mod
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Its a Static, unmodified 800, thats not modifyable correct?
<@Elidroth> it's a skill damage amount
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Total dmg + X
<Phyros-InverseLogic> X= at max rank 800
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Can the SK's get an AA (gasp Aura!) or somethign similar that raises their AC? Similiar to Field armor or the like/
<Tearsin> okay then, on that topic, i sent you a PM about this - it's just a tiny oddball quirk, no biggie. with our 2h attack disc (Gashing Blade, 34715), the damage on it is modified by Shield Specialist, so it actually does more damage with a 1h equipped than a 2h
<Tearsin> not the end of the world but an oddity, and requiring a macro to bando your 1h when you hit it if you want to min/max dps
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Its not that huge though Tearsin, its like a difference of like 4% I think overall.
<Tearsin> uh, i guess... man there's no easy way to fix that since bloodhirsy is just +dmg
<Kaliko> don't sk's get a spell that adds AC? challenge for power or w/e
<Tearsin> yeah it's absolutely not an *issue* in any sense, just an oddity
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Ya but on raids, Its yet another ability we really canb't use while we are tanking
<Phyros-InverseLogic> our extra hP, requires a mob debuff, our AC gain requires a Debuff slot. Thats taking away 8-15k dps
<Phyros-InverseLogic> if not more
<Kaliko> you guys have like 6 necros? heh
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Scratch the hP one they fixed that 2 expansion ago
<shiftee> 15k from 1 dot?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> 4 necros can use 54 buff slots.
<@Elidroth> I'm not giving any AA auras
<@Elidroth> to any classes
<gladare> it's called hyperbole duh
<Phyros-InverseLogic> 2 dots, could total 15k Shiftee
<gladare> I didn't know necros burned for 150k
<Phyros-InverseLogic> 15k x6 = 90k / 2 = 45k
<Kaliko> how long does the debuff stay on mob?
<Beezy-ipad> About a minute
<Phyros-InverseLogic> If your necros aren't hitting 45k then yes, theres a problem.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> 1 min, buff lasts 1 min. So to keep it up you need to keep casting it taking up a debuff slot, blocking a necro
<gladare> I don't know any necros that only use 12 dots
<Phyros-InverseLogic> usually 16 I think?
<Voodoman> i know we all love necros
<Voodoman> we're about 8 days early though
<Voodoman> so
<Hatsee> This is cute, but if you're just throwing crap at the wall and hoping something sticks can we move on? He's given like 2 half hearted responses since sk's started clamoring for dps.
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Anyways. So No Flash, No Aura's, No AC, No DPS additive to dots, No increasing our proc dmg amount, No Skill to increase our pet.
<Gudkaap> there was mention of increasing soul abrasion IIRC
<@Elidroth> it's funny.. some of you only hear what I've said 'no' to..
<@Elidroth> I've got a list of probably 15 different things I've already agreed to
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Elidroth its too bad you can't post a summary so we can view it as we log in, for things "under consideration"
<@Elidroth> but go on
<Arthion> Can you rattle off that list sir? so we know where we stand?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> so we don't bug / waste time and keep things fairly easy.
<Ronthorn> SK AA Hatsee Named it Throw Crap! joking btw
<@Elidroth> Demoralize - Similar to Tunnel Vision ability Soul Abrasion - 1 rank Voice of Thule - 1 new rank - 20% hate mod Hastened Hate's Attraction - 3 ranks Cascading Theft of Life/Defense - Increase proc rate? Embrace the Decay type ability for SK Vicious Bite of Chaos & Recourse upgrade Quickened Scourge Skin - 3 ranks - 10, 25, 50% Hastened Visage of Death??? Group Thought Leech. Recouse is at lower rate than normal ver
<Phyros-InverseLogic> And Yes, I was Listing the stuff I felt had no chance, So I knew, and others wouldn't ask the same questiosn.
<@Elidroth> plus some more
<Voodoman> but more DPS!
<Arthion> how about for rangers now please
<@Elidroth> don't play that game with me.. asking for CRAZY stuff so the stuff you really want doesn't seem so nuts
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Thank you Elidroth.
<@Elidroth> this isn't a game of comparative results
<@Elidroth> Quickened Auspice of the Hunter Hastened Guardian of the Forest Hastened Outrider's Attack Hastened Imbued Ferocity Hastened Outrider's Accuracy Hastened Forceful Rejuvenation Hastened Cover Tracks Protection of the Spirit Wolf upgrade Hastened Protection of the Spirit Wolf Hastened Crescent/Heel Kicks - 5 ranks - 1 second each Close Combat Mastery - 5 ranks - adds small amount of fixed damage on top of melee weapon skills Nature's
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Hold the phone, Asking for a Flash of anger I don't consider shooting for the moon.
<Kaliko> cool ty elidroth
<Hatsee> Close Combat Mastery, what do you mean by small... 5 ranks at at least 100 damage each?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Like 20
<@Elidroth> that means I haven't run the numbers on it yet
<Phyros-InverseLogic> 100 dual weilding?
<Hatsee> Actually with that name, did someone ask about something to decrease minimum ranged attack range?
<Phyros-InverseLogic> And then triple attack / flurry would be insane.
<@Elidroth> I can't do that Hatsee
<Hatsee> Fair enough.
<Ashran> What is planned with the Close Combat Mastery AA line? How will it work?
<Ashran> hehe disregard....slow typer
<Arthion> Thanks for the update so far Eli
<Arthion> Any chance of another rank or two of archery mastery
<@Elidroth> no
<Hatsee> Oh in that list I didn't see harmonious arrow, that was on there somewhere right?
<Hatsee> In the cut off part.
<gladare> and quickened vinelash
<@Elidroth> I don't want to further push you down the ranged damage rabbit hole
<Hatsee> About that
<@Elidroth> nothing was cut off
<@Elidroth> harmonious arrow is there
<gladare> cut off at combat mastery for me
<Kaliko> whats that last thing? Nature's
<gladare> repreive
<Kaliko> ah more ranks?
<Ashran> HA musta been cut off too....don't see it
<@Elidroth> Vinelash Cascade and Assault are going to be looked at
<gladare> sorry reprieve
<Hatsee> So the general idea was no new dps clicks? If so what's the potential changes to outrider's accuracy?
<Ronthorn> outriders accuracy is nice one to boost since we can not use it with bulleyes i think it should be our main melee dps AA and keeps us out of the ranged rabbit hole as elidroth says
<@Elidroth> hastened + upgrades
<Ronthorn> nice
<Hatsee> More ranks?
<Hatsee> Oof
<@Elidroth> if you don't want them.. I can always just not make them.. save me some time..
<Hatsee> Lol
<@Elidroth> not kidding
<@Elidroth> I suspect things are going to get nutty around here after the 1st of the year
<Hatsee> Killshot lines get brought up? Hunter's Fury was ours, hasn't changed in a while could we get a new rank that adds something extra like a bit of mana?
<Tuldan> goign to add flat increases to outriders accuracy or make it do more stuff too like increase critical damage?
<Tuldan> increasign critical damage may make it more liek th emelee filler we need
<Tearsin> any thought to giving SKs a few more ranks of Mirrored Pestilence? right now at rk3 it's a 3% chance (it's a 'twincast' for our dots, when it activates they do 2x damage)
<irctc078> Eli were also considering of adding a mash type ability similar to beastlord aa deral swipe?
<@Elidroth> no
<irctc078> for rangers i mean
<@Elidroth> we talked about this
<Tuldan> me or irctc eli?
<@Elidroth> I want to avoid activated mash abilities if possible
<irctc078> fair enough
<Rouan> Our discs have a perfectly good one not doing anything except lowering or raising aggro right now /grin
<Tearsin> OH, almost forgot - a rank or two of Hastened Strike of Unbridled Fear would be awesome if you're OK with it. it's a minor mob movement/repositioning utility, currently 30s recast
<Tearsin> or just new ranks of SOUF that reduces the reuse a bit
<@Elidroth> 30 seconds doesn't seem out of line
<Tearsin> alrighty. unfortunate, but ya it's not a big deal either way. thanks
<Synnun> so once all these AAs get sorted out to we have an ETA on when they will be put into effect?
<Synnun> or is it too early to ask
<Synnun> do we have*&
<Hatsee> At least one patch, so January probably.
<Synnun> k
<Hatsee> At earliest.
<@Elidroth> Nope
<@Elidroth> we have no ETA on these
<Hatsee> I said At least =P
<@Elidroth> This is 'future' delivery.. I haven't been told when I can put these out
<Fatbuk> soon (tm)
<Synnun> fair enough
<Hatsee> Oh so March when T3 goes in?
<@Elidroth>
<@Elidroth>This is 'future' delivery.. I haven't been told when I can put these out
<Rouan> Hatsee will have himself cryogenically frozen until they come out in that case
<Hatsee> It's winter, I'll just go outside.
<gladare> Talk about drastic measures
<Rouan> Well, anyone willing to freeze a guy for a few months is probably just gonna throw you outside too
<gladare> Why do I get the feeling that "future delivery" means delivered after a small fee
<Shang> we're not selling power
<Waring> they have done delayed content release before so why would it change?
<Waring> well thats just something silly to say
<Shang> because they've used clear terminology when they did it in Underfoot lol
<Waring> they have always sold power but people don't complain when its called an expansion
<@Elidroth> I have no info on how or when things will be delivered. I would suggest however, that you not get all worked up about speculation or fear of worst-case scenarios
<Shang> See the vagueness Waring? =p
<Waring> vaguenss?
<@Elidroth> what vagueness? I don't have any info. Period.
<Tearsin> hey, eli, don't go saying something like to kelefane - you'll get him all worked up over speculation of fear of a worst-case scenario =P
<Waring> that they have never charged for content like this outside of an expansion and that the next expansion isnt due out for a long time?
<Rouan> Don't mind Shang, he's just paranoid. Keeps him alive
<Rouan> What with allt he death threats he gets and all
<Shang> Couple it with Smokejumper's "Future Development" and Elidroth not being sure "how" these AAs will be released, something's on the table and they know we aren't going to be happy with it lol
<shiftee> elidroth can i aska paladin question
<shiftee> since the convo has shifted
<@Elidroth> no
<@Elidroth> you cannot
<Hatsee> never
<shiftee> i was informed i forgot something
<shiftee> on the standard aa list
<Hatsee> You asked for everything what could you have missed?
<shiftee> blessing of life and healing light
<Beezy-ipad> We did miss something
<shiftee> riou sent me an ingame tell and told me i missed it
<gladare> lmao and he does anyway
<illa> every day is paladin day
<Beezy-ipad> Lol
<Beezy-ipad> Hahahaha
<Xeo> LOL
<Shang> man of principle.
<random_guy> shiftee shhh
<tonzofo> lol!
<random_guy> on behalf of sk, be quiet pls
<Hacket> kbi
<@Elidroth> I didn't ban Shiftee.. can return anytime.. lol
<Straahdx-tunare> dang.. i leave work for 45 minutes to drive home, and the first thing i see when i get here is Elidroth kicking Shiftee.. i miss all the good stuff.. lol
<Ronthorn> ha ha
<Hatsee> Ranger, self only salvation of marr type ability, just an agro decrease of some sort. Shiftee reminded me.
<Shang> It's all good, shiftee's used to getting booted from things for bad reasons =p
<@Elidroth> you have agro decrease abilities
<Hatsee> Yes, and Aristo made our agro terrible and those were not adjusted. =/
<gladare> Can rangers get a self-evac? maybe make it outdoors only
<shiftee> good times
<Beezy-ipad> Lol shiftee
<Beezy-ipad> Hahaha
<Ronthorn> yeah saw that on forums somewhere gladare someone posted a name for that forgot what
<shiftee> someone else ask him
<gladare> Outrider's Withdrawal
<Ronthorn> thats it
<shiftee> not named <shiftee>
<@Elidroth> Evac can be done, but it requires code (sadly)
<Hatsee> Can rangers get blessing of life?
<Shang> Can rangers also get healing light?
<Hatsee> Is that what you meant shiftee?
<illa> scaled for rof, of course
<Straahdx-tunare> Did I miss anything about Sks in the last 45ish minutes?
<Hatsee> Just the silence,
<Straahdx-tunare> wonderful
<Tuldan> not many of the agro decrease abilities fire when shooting bow, our jolt proc is melee only as well as veil spell
<gladare> I just like toys. More ranks of tracking mastery? I want to see the whole zone, no more having to actually traverse a zone.
<Tuldan> and jolting hook kicks is just 100 range
<Hatsee> It's 50 range, but that's as much as it should probably go. Seems odd if we could kick from 100' away or more.
<Tuldan> not sayign it should be more, just saying not much works to lower our agro whiel doing main burn
03* ChanServ changes topic to 'Tuesday - SK & Ranger'
<Rouan> well, getting cover tracks to 5 mins will help
<@Elidroth> I think perhaps there is a misconception about what Burn is..
<@Elidroth> Burn is maximum dps you can safely manage
<Hatsee> Cool, I've never seen a dev post what a burn is I'm curious.
<@Elidroth> Burn does NOT mean max dps possible with no regard to anything else
<Hatsee> Yes it does.
<@Elidroth> how much dps do you do when you're dead?
<gladare> I've seen dead necros do a lot
<Hatsee> Depends if I cast a dot or not.
<Shang> depends on if you increase my DoT damage
<@Elidroth> are we talking about necros?
<gladare> sorry that one made me giggle a little
<@Elidroth> you have to manage your agro
<Shang> well, seeing as how agro management barely requires a pulse, I'd say we're pretty safe to not take agro.
<Rouan> I don't think I've pulled aggro in 4 years
<Kaliko> speaking of aggro
<Shang> if by that, you mean telling me not to press taunt, yes.
<Kaliko> we are getting reduced cover tracks reuse right?
<gladare> He said 4 ranks down to 5 mins
<Kaliko> ok cool
<Rouan> and said he'd (maybe) halve that obnoxious cast time
<Ronthorn> i bet Elidroth will be sick of EQ Players by the time he done with these chats rofl
<gladare> will be?
<Carnitor> Hello, just logged on. I have a sk question/aa idea. I think an instant cast aa aoe agro, with a very large radius, would be awesome.
<Arthion> Just the dumb questions over and over again
<random_guy> was hastened leechcurse a go?
<@Elidroth> Carnitor - Noted.
<Carnitor> thanks, it'd be great for certain raids especially
<Kaliko> did anyone metnion possible new rank of poison arrows?
<Beezy-ipad> Lol
<@Elidroth> I didn't say yes. I said I had noted your request.
<Carnitor> I know
<Shang> I have the agro reducing portions of IF and First Spire blocked for more buff slots, chain cast summers, run poison arrows. Use hate kicks instead of jolting, and a mob hasn't looked at me in ages, while going balls-to-the wall on a parse. That's what I define as maximum, and a burn.
<Kaliko> yeah it all depends on the tank tbh
<Kaliko> tho i use calming strike aug w/ if and never pull aggro
<Shang> If tank has pulse, you don't lose agro. If tank has no pulse or is otherwise bad, you get agro.
<Shang> In groups, sure. You'll gank agro. In raids, no. Nobody but a tank class should ever get agro with their current tools.
<Tuldan> i wont be runnign poison arrows ever on anything longer then 2 minutes unless our mana issues get addressed
<gladare> until they get addressed
<Tuldan> ya, untill =)
<Hatsee> If
<Gulbinos> is giving sk's an ability we can mgb out of the question?
<Straahdx-tunare> MGB 2.0? lol
<Straahdx-tunare> j/k btw
<Kashy> Im not sure a sk has anything they can even MGB... i'd say give it to them
<Kaliko> thats because they have no buffs to cast on others.....
<Shang> hastened Weapon Shield?
<Kaliko> we need an innate aa to proc sheltering thunder, that way we can use jolting
<@Elidroth> No shang
<illa> MGB voice of thule for sks
<arkeal> rofl@mgb vot
<Straahdx-tunare> viral aggro AA?
<Straahdx-tunare> run 8?
<Tadenea> wish thunder chance was on our DD+hate proc for rangers but thats more of a aristo thing

<Kaliko> know what would be cool for sk's to mgb? a 30 sec buff that like 2.0, but heals 10% of dmg per hit or something
<Hatsee> hahahaha
<@Elidroth>
<Tharkis> ok zerkkin...
<Ronthorn> Hello Zerkkin Elidroth missed you
<Kashy> Eli you mentioned yesterday about some sort of a taunt revamp, is that going to affect all class with taunt or was that warrior specific? In any case, would a hastened aa line for war/pal/shd be out of the question for the undivided line of discs? timer currently sits at 10mins for all 3 classes. Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier today/yesterday
<@Elidroth> It's warrior only
<Beezy-ipad> Home from work later all
<illa> how about hastening the undivided lines?
<@Elidroth> yep.. already doing that for warriors
<Kashy> only warriors?
<Fatbuk>
<@Elidroth>It's warrior only
<Kashy> that comment war referring to the taunt revamp i assumed mate
<Voodoman> is it warrior only?
<@Elidroth> Taunt changes are warrior only
<@Elidroth> Undivided stuff can be done for all tanks
<Shang> rangers have taunt, can I have undivided?
<Voodoman> Elidroth, when are beastlords being deleted? Absor said he was working on it
<Tadenea> bards first before beastlords
<@Elidroth> no Shang.. the Undivided abilities are for tanks only
<Kaliko> necros first pls
<Shang> No-Fail taunt for tanks only too?
<Voodoman> dom
<Voodoman> don't listen, it's a veiled attempt at ranger gate
<Gulbinos> would it be possible to give certain classes extra aa's in heroics? like give sk's 3-5 more ranks of agi ect?
<Kaliko> those are very minor bonuses to ac and stuff gulb
<@Elidroth> no
<@Elidroth> I have no way to affect heroics at all
<Gulbinos> ok - and something > nothing /shrug
<@Elidroth> If there was anything missed today or you have stuff that you didn't get to ask, be sure to PM me
<shiftee> on here
<shiftee> or eqlive
<@Elidroth> forums
<shiftee> i'll be sure to have someone not named shiftee send you the pm
<Shang> Oh, would you consider adding more mana regen to Mental Clarity / Expansive Mind? 1 point at level 100 is bad.
<Shang> AT LEAST 2 points.
<@Elidroth> I'll think about it
<Shang> do you have to talk to aristo about that one? =\
<gladare> Druids have an aa line that extends vinelash by so many ticks I think. Any chance rangers inheriting that>
<gladare> ?
<gladare> I'd also like to see vinelash assault moved to 96 but that's more of a spell issue. Currently I'm not using assault because of the chance to fizzle.
<Shang> It'd also make it easier for the rangers that are coming back to headshot experience, elidroth. think of the returners.
<gladare> lol if I only used vinelash for headshotting, I wouldn't care
<gladare> fizzle is more dangerous when everything hits for 10k
<gladare> Besides, cascade covers the prime headshotting levels
<Phyros-InverseLogic> Damn
<Hatsee> If he does a hastened and quickened for the vinelash line then that danger is gone.
<Hatsee> I mean hell the new one is barely better and on a different timer, it'll be okay
<gladare> I didn't realize they were on a separate timer. I suppose I could keep them both memmed
<Hatsee> Actually he mentioned hastened and quickened for those so I didn't bother asking for quick cast aa ae snare/root. I think we'll be pretty well off there, probably.
<gladare> Thanks for the info. That's what I get for assuming
<Straahdx-tunare> Heading out. Thank you Elidroth for doing these.
<Slimans> Not sure if this was brought up before, Can SKs get an "aura" type ability that would cast an aoe heal based off their taps for people inside this "aura" for x amount of seconds for some sort of raid utility?
<Zahrim> Elidroth - non ranger related, but vulak loot on t2 vendor pls?
<illa> you mean like an rb for sks?
<@Elidroth> no chance Zahrim
<Zahrim> wow
<Zahrim> brutal
<@Elidroth> Vulak loot is ONLY for Vulak kills
<Slimans> somewhat, but on a smaller scale in heal power but for more peopel than rb
<Voodoman> ntov is too easy elidroth
<Voodoman> can you make it harder
<Voodoman> HEHEHE
<Hatsee> Well you have to kill him once anyway
<Zahrim> also the dragons aren't flagged as raid mobs, quick dots work
<Zahrim> for ntov
<@Elidroth> that's actually intentional. They'll work on everything except Vulak
<Beimeith> Yeah, but that means my nukes don't get the extra damage
<Beimeith> Y U hate me Elidroth? (
<Zahrim> ^
<Hatsee> You're a grouper beimeith
<Zahrim> stand under vyemm beimeith
<Zahrim> so you can land nukes
<Voodoman> casual beimeith
<Zahrim> he doesnt ramp, i swear
<Shang> casuals have more fun
<Tharkis> i have a lot of fun
<Rouan> i fell asleep for a bit there, but this is pretty much over, right?
<illa> for today
<Slimans> You have 42 minutes still
<Rouan> well, nobody is asking any questions... if between now and then someone does, I'll update my log

Thank you Elidroth for spending your day with us. It is appreciated.

(and to Shiftee for giving me the # of letters these posts take, 20,000)

Yeah, that was clearly the best part. Totally worth leaving in.

Necros will be asking for MGB DB, right?

I didn't have a chance to read through the whole thing but this kinda jumped out at me with no further explination......
"<@Elidroth> both SKs and Paladins are going to be getting some tweaks to their tanking abilities"
....................hum.....unless this is a reference to what is being proposed/implemented because of these AA chats but my sense is telling me it's something....more fundamental.

MGB Harmshield.

Bah..can't update the previous post but this seems huge to me.
<@Elidroth> what we've settled on right now is PCs and pets won't push npcs, but regular NPC will continue to push players as normal

Welcome to why I never did do the summary, heh. 30 minutes, then no more edits can be made.

Send Piestro a PM every time you need a post edited.

Anyone want to sum up the major points( if there are any)?

Or you could just read it.

Hmm, I'm a little confused by this...

<@Elidroth> there's no way to track the amount of hate generated by a group

Wasn't that the whole point of the new agro display so people could see the relative agro of the people in the group ?

The idea, as far as I understood it, was to transfer an amount of hate from the group and add it to the sk.
so, for example, if a group had the following agro displayed (numbers made up obviously):
Player1 - 10
Player2 - 10
Player3 - 10
Player4 - 10
Player5 - 10
SK - 10

SK hits his 'gimme agro' button and the hate gets redistributed:
Player1 - 5
Player2 - 5
Player3 - 5
Player4 - 5
Player5 - 5
SK - 35

Elidorth.

You are lowering Cover Tracks. But if you want to consider/reconsider time & cost.

Rangers argue for a larger reduction and not a large AA investment based on Past Practice.

When Shadowknights got Death Effigy. It was made with a far shorter cooldown than Monk's Imitate Death had. Think it was 2 min for SK and at the time 6 minutes for Monks.. When the discripency of the class that got it FD/Full Wipe first (Monk) having it worse than a class new ability (Sk Death Effigy) ranks of Imitate Death were added not "Gradually/Reasonably, like you are talking about here." They were added immediately to even it out..

Rangers got a Fade before classes like Druids, Clerics. Yet thiers was added with Instacast (so better) and shorter cooldown.

The Past Practice of full rebalancing quickly so that Ranger can fade as often as a Druid/Cleric since they were fading before those 2 classes. Is more about a larger reduction and cast time removal.

Thanks for Consideration.

On a seperate note, I get (though still vehemently disagree with data supporting) the logic behind assassinate/headshot/zerker one. Why no finishing blow? That one doesnt fit since it only fires if the mob is already fleeing (not fighting back) and was available to every melee class.