Sk or Pally

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Archanjel, Aug 19, 2021.

  1. Hellowhatsyourname Augur


    So your argument is that since bards recently have obtained better things to cast than adps songs that it's somehow NOT adps stagnation?

    Those old song lines back when we were lvl 60 WERE a notable bump in dps, but since dps increases look less like x=y and more like x^2=y, where x>0, and the songs didn't also maintain that same scale, they're crap.

    Choosing to play dots/insults instead of subpar adps songs DOES make the adps provided to the group less (through the choice to not play crappy adps songs).
  2. Szilent Augur

    Insults for Synergy are stronger adps than the proc songs ever were. Fierce Eye & Quick Time are stronger than they've ever been. That Epic, FE, QT, Aura, Aria, WarMarch are multipliers on their "clients'" dps means they will only ever GET stronger.

    Your whole premise that a class is somehow weaker when they move on from shabby things to strong things is fing weird.
    Elyssanda and Axel like this.
  3. Xhartor Augur

    TLP are something to go with if youi want to play the at a less confusing era and experience content closer to actual release state. The more recent the TLP will have a larger players base, also the more toxic the community is. Additionally TLP use a rule set that prevents boxing on the same computer.

    Coirnav is only one at this point in which has mercs are available.

    Mischief and Thornblade are in Velious, They are free trade servers, so thing are a little different there. Velious just unlock, so expect most to be 60, but working alts up because there nothing else to do.

    Aradune: They are in LDoN, should still have decent pop but expect 95% to be level 65.
    Rizlone: This is a boxing server, expect a-social box squaders. Otherwise the same as Aradune.

    Mangler: Is in TBS, the community is strong and decent sized player base, but has been in decline.

    Coirnav: VoA is unlocking today. This server is a ghost town.

    Agnarr: Perm locked on LDoN, This server is a ghost town, has 3 guilds that are still running and regularly farming time.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    How good is sk + necro? Surprised it hasnt been mentioned. Seems strong on paper and double FD has to be useful.
  5. Ozon Lorekeeper


    Disclaimer I am referring to 85+

    It can be as you would expect pretty strong, great against undead, not as powerful as a Slay Pally + Necro but still very solid. Issue being there can be quite a bit of overlap in function with SK/Necro. Both can pacify undead, and slow undead, SK isn't as powerful as Pally DPS wise, and heals (other than taps) are almost non-existent. Strengths include 2 pullers, Rez, lots of undead tools, need for a healer goes down (a bit depends on gear/mobs yadda yadda), DPS is solid,
  6. Axel Furry Hats OP

    Insidious Rejection becomes instant cast, all lifetaps are close to instant cast, spear becomes instant cast, abhorrent bargain is almost instant cast.
    kizant likes this.
  7. Hellowhatsyourname Augur

    I’m still not sure why you’re arguing, since you’ve confirmed multiple times that basically bards shouldn’t be using more than three of their songs (and situationally two) + DoTs. That leaves quite a few songs that are, at best, extremely situational and many others you could just delete from your song book without missing them at all.
  8. Szilent Augur

    This conversation began with your nonsense claim that "bards have taken a hit these days" so you recommended some other class as a partner.
  9. Hellowhatsyourname Augur

    I'll clarify:

    Bards haven't been given a meaningful upgrade to songs in years. What meager adps upgrades they've received are entirely based on AA's that you can't maintain 100% uptime on or by triggering synergy (which is actually an effect from an AA). A bard's songbook could consist of four songs right now and you'd have the entirety of what useful things you bring to a group available to you.

    In summary: Pick a different class as a partner/box. Bards are near and dear to my heart, but they're a shell of what they used to be.
  10. Axel Furry Hats OP

    The #1 best ADPS ability is Aria/Aura from a bard. No other class offers that kind of ADPS from just 1 ability. Remove every other useful aspect of a bard and I would still say bard is the #1 pick just for this ability.
    Selo's Sontata... Ever main a bard then swap to another class? Yeah, you feel slow. This is another one of those abilities where even if bards had 0 other ability other than Selo's, I would still pick bard. Especially partnered with an SK/PAL, they can live & do enough on their own, the run speed is awesome.
    Always have haste with Symphony of Battle clickie & War March. While you can get slightly better haste with enchanter buffs, SOB & War March stack with enchanter haste, and if you don't have that buff, having haste is super valuable.
    Slows. Bards can slow, both AE & single target. Slows = mitigation.
    Snares. Yep, bards get this too.
    Buffs to incoming heals with Pulse (14% incoming heals) & Reckless Renewal (25% extra crit) lines. Make your paladin partner heal better by like 40% if you combine these, effectively turning your 1 paladin healer into 1.4 paladin healers. Add in your mercs, you essentially have an extra 1.2 healers. This alone makes bard a better effective healer than a healer box, assuming you are healing yourself on your paladin.
    CC. Yes, these spells still exist throughout all levels.

    This is all just raw songs, not even getting into the AAs that bards get, other useful clickies, more ADPS tools, more CC tools, personal etc. Bards just using their base kit is 100% better than any other class that you can pick in terms of survivability and DPS. Yeah we might not get OP resist songs like we used to, and we might not get nearly as many useful abilities like back in the day, but the toolkit bards get is still by far superior to any other class's kit. There's a reason why all raid forces are looking for more bards, even if they already have 8. The toolkit is just too powerful.
  11. Szilent Augur

    Bards have gotten great and very meaningful upgrades, that's what's pushed out the shabby songs of old. They're not "a shell", they're the swole A F lobster that's left its old shell behind cause the gainz have been so sweet. You out here trash talking a kid running cause they used to be so cute when they crawled. What you are looking at is a Higher Performing Individual right there.
    Elyssanda likes this.
  12. Axel Furry Hats OP

    That's the great part about bards too, the class actually changes. I can't think of any other class that has changed their rotation in the past couple of expansions except maybe shamans (for dots) and enchanters (because of nerfs), maybe SKs if you consider their dot "revamp".

    Every other class has gotten copy/paste upgrades and their rotation has been "solved" for the couple of expansions, since TBM. Bards in ROS got huge BB/VS upgrades. TOV added dots. COV made synergy OP. And there are a million ways to optimize and every bard, even if they put out similar DPS, does it a little different. You don't see that in any other class.
    Elyssanda likes this.
  13. shiftie Augur

    The wild thing in this discussion is that it ignores the obvious… no other class can hit melody and a social (qt/fierce) and impact performance like a bard while literally doing nothing else. 2 button clicks at minimum and you’ve drastically changed the outcome. Boohoo bards aren’t this or that… Arguing Against Bards in a box situation smh

    *boggle* is this really happening?
    PCSS, Bigstomp, Elyssanda and 2 others like this.
  14. Tucoh Augur

    Back in reality,
    Doesn't an optimal raid force currently enjoy one bard for most groups? They are also present in almost all optimal 6box groups and are the best choice for low-APM box groups.

    Bard's synergy and DoTs have gotten so boosted over the last few expansions they idea they are anything but overpowered ADPS is ludicrous.
  15. Athilnaur New Member

    To extend this topic a bit, what healer would you recommend as third box with pally, bard for live? For tlp? Currently running Pal, bard, druid on thornblade but have run sk\war bard cleric on live historically and with Luclin soonish and POP coming wondering if sham is the go. Or on live would a berserker with healer mercs work?
  16. Wulfhere Augur

    My favorite partner for hunter achievements has been a druid to travel quickly to different zones and track rare mobs. The druid's toolkit covers healing, curing, dps, adps, debuffs, and CC to various degrees during the fights.
  17. Tucoh Augur

    You'd be fine with druid, shaman, berserker, mage, beastlord. Which one is optimal depends on what you're doing and your personal preference. Which is generally best is debatable, but I think the druid's versatility makes it my choice.

    Druids can be really mana hungry, but the bard can fill that gap.
  18. Ozon Lorekeeper


    I would say Druid would be ideal, heals, cures, travel, evac. Especially for live that's a really nice setup.
  19. Hellowhatsyourname Augur

    What songs do bards play on raids?

    Also, do you consider the gains realized for a bard + shaman + 4 melee dps to be the same as a bard + SK or Pally?
  20. Tucoh Augur

    Very effective ones and no.