SK Nurf

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Jono Bean, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. Tappin Augur

    There isn’t any way your keep a dot rotation on chain pulls. Since real groups that I am in never med, there isn’t any reason to use more than one.

    But let’s say for some reason you could... mobs die within 15 - 20 seconds. Please let me know what the point is?
  2. bortage Augur

    even in groups that never med and chain mobs forever it's probably worth loading one for using gom procs with, it's a decent chunk of damage for low opportunity cost if you use it exclusively with gom procs
  3. Szilent Augur

    Chocolate dipped frozen bananas are also bad on chain pulls. Since real groups that you are in never sit on a patio enjoying deserts, there isn't any reason to use chocolate dipped frozen bananas. What even is the point of chocolate dipped frozen bananas?

    Are we onboard with the analogy? Now the question: were the previous overripe (like month old, black & so squishy they're floppy) bananas better? I don't actually want to hear the answer, as I don't respect any debate on the matter; if you were using any sort of dots at ALL before, let alone some mysterious "rotation", you were playing poorly. If increasing the mana cost drives you away from dots to more appropriate spells, then just like on Page 1: congratulations to the better players around you on their suddenly more effective teammate!
    Raccoo and Duder like this.
  4. Angahran Augur

    Let me put this into easier terms.

    You buy a beer for $3.
    Next time you go to the bar the bartender tells you that your beer is now 3x the size.
    Sounds great, right? you expect it to cost $9.

    Then he tells you it costs $15
    Doesn't sound so great now.
    sauron3030 likes this.
  5. Cragzop Augur

    How long have you played EQ? Your goods analogy is just wrong. It's more like generations of weapon systems … the change in cost is always higher than the change in damage.

    Mana cost increases have always been greater than damage increases. Being able to convert more mana into damage is always a worse ratio. Every other class understand this.

    You don't have to use it … you don't even have to like it. But perhaps it's time to understand that every class has this happen.
    Duder likes this.
  6. kizant Augur

    The other major problem recently is that stats on gear have become hugely inflated. For one example look at Dire Convulsion and compare it to the TDS version. Before this huge gigantic buff you received to your class the increase in mana cost between your TDS and ToV spell was about 44%. Compare that to the amount of mana on your BP, for example, which increased by around 130% and and I'm not even factoring in mana on new augs and type 5s, etc. At some point adjustments need to be made to get things back in line.
    Duder likes this.
  7. Lubianx Augur

    You analogy above does not take into account the benefit of having 2 additional spell slots free which you wouldn't have had to use if you wanted all 3 dots loaded.

    It's not a straight 3 x cost = 3 x damage since you would also need a cost to offset the fact that only 1 spell slot is used instead of 3. This is what happened to other dot consolidations.
  8. ArtremasEQ Elder

    Poor Analogy.

    More like,
    You used to buy 3 beers, costing $3 each, and 3 glasses is the max you can have at any one time,

    Now you buy one beer, costing $15, which has.
    - 3x the content / effect
    - Uses 2 less glasses, freeing those up for other things for you get at the same time
    - Can be consumed in the same amount of time as 1 beer, so you can repeat more often

    {and even this analogy is weak, but closer}.

    Some see the dmg / mana ration as the 'main' cost. For many people it is a long long way from the main benefit.
    Personally, I look at: {simplisticly}
    - how quickly I can heal myself
    - how much hate I can generate in Y amount of time.
    - how quickly I can deal X amount of damage
    - how can I do the above with 13 spell gems, knowing I can't swap spells in combat. (where as Necro's can for example)

    THEN, all the above considered, how to manage mana pool to achieve that. Mana pool is mainly about how long I can sustain a given level of output of the above items and efficiently. (i.e. I don't generally cast 1 minute dots on mobs that live for 20s).

    More mana cost for more damage at the SAME time, for the same spellGem resources is not unreasonable. Using the mana/dmg ratio as the only comparison is fundamentally flawed.

    For me, the biggest trade off with the new Dots, is spell gems to put them in. What to drop.
    After a week of using, I've ended up only keeping the Top two dots loaded, and that sometimes drops down to one (Poison)
  9. Tappin Augur

    OMG, seriously... I don’t know any SK that uses more than 1 DoT. My guess is that most SK’s don’t use more than one DoT. If you want fix something that’s obviously broken, then fix it properly and give the players a reasonable reason to use it. But, the mana cost/resist is to high. Most SK’s will probably keep on ignoring DoTs... and rightfully so.
    Angahran likes this.
  10. enclee Augur

    This post and the others like it in the thread just blow my mind. No SK was using any DoTs before this change. Now, you have the option to evaluate your situation and choose to actually deplete your mana in exchange for damage. Let’s be all be honest SK mana, because it lasts forever.

    Are the DoTs going to be useful in every situation? No, and that’s how a game with the multitude of abilities is intended to play. You’re supposed to actually think about your situations and determine the best solution.

    Let’s say you have a 3 person group and 3 mercs, maybe you need the extra dps from the DoTs because your group isn’t the strongest and is going to have more frequent med breaks. Maybe, you’re in an ideal group and breezing through mobs every 10-15 seconds, then you’re going to prioritize sustain. Maybe, you spawned a named and want to prioritize burning through it while running a defensive disc, using DoTs would make sense.
    kizant and Scornfire like this.
  11. Manafasto Journeyman

    I remember I used nothing but Disease Cloud in the early days while in groups.
  12. yepmetoo Augur

    You bothered logging in and using them yet? Or still "or so you heard"?

    Shut up, get in game, use the tools you have when appropriate, where they are now more powerful, and don't use them when they are not appropriate, same as before. And stop whining about making yourself look ridiculously bad.
  13. Sithsonn Elder

    Thanks for the laughs guys :)
    Scornfire likes this.
  14. Metanis Augur

    2 issues.

    SK class has so much other utility and now you're gonna complain your not a good dps class too? Excuse me while I go grab some popcorn and beer.

    And if I'm your healer in TOUGH content and I see you using dots instead of taps I might just have a keyboard malfunction that causes me to gate instead of healing. Because you're making me work a helluva lot harder just so you can have a little bit of fun.
  15. bortage Augur

    dots are instant cast, at best they'd be losing 2 seconds of lifetap coverage to apply one, I think you'll be fine healing an sk that weaves in a dot every few taps once a minute
  16. Cadira Augur

    I like to think of tanks using 2 hander or dps spells instead of self healing etc as a way for the cleric to translate their healing to dps (via the tanks increased dps at loss of survival spells)

    Plus a tank that is knifes-edge to keep alive keeps me awake :)
    Drogba, Wulfhere and Szilent like this.
  17. Gorehammer Lorekeeper

    I'm just saying, from my perspective, the devs overshot the runway on the mana cost, just like they've overshot the recent Overseer merchant prices and had to adjust them, several times. They don't always get it right the first time they tweak something, it happens. I appreciate them trying to help the SK class, I know they weren't trying to nerf us, they just didn't nail the final numbers, IMO.

    There's nothing wrong with SK's (or anyone else) sharing their individual experiences with a particular change to their own class and the devs taking the collection of responses into consideration. We're frankly lucky they are a company that is capable of doing so. However, I think it's irresponsible to simply say "your DoTs look better to me so you should all shut up and take it" without specifically knowing what the devs hoped the change would accomplish, in their OWN words. If through an insurance claim you go to get 5 things fixed on your car, and they fix 3, should you then shut up and be glad your car "appears better than it was" in other peoples' eyes? -- We'd need to know the devs' hopes for the change to determine if they truly missed the mark or not, at this point we can only try the new spells and give our thoughts.

    Personally, I think 3x DoT damage for 4x mana cost is more realistic and would help stretch the amount of time between medding while still incurring a heavier mana payment for continued usage. Even if we had 500 debuff slots on raid mobs, the devs consider how a spell/AA impacts both the raid and group game (and maybe the solo game, too), so they generally want to be fair to the majority of players.

    More off-topic: People have strong opinions on how certain classes should be designed/played. Despite being the popular way of thinking in 2020: having an opinion doesn't make you right, myself included. Ultimately, it's up to the devs which tools they give classes (therefore determining each class's possibilities), we can only give feedback and make play style changes within their game's restrictions. EQ has a lot of lore, but a basic concept that should be plain to see is Parent/Children Class Relationships. If you don't think Tanks should be dealing useful damage, don't look at knights or SK's in particular, make your case for lowering ALL tank output. If you don't think SK's should have anything in common with their Necro parents (in this case, reliable DoT usage), make your case for ALL hybrids ditching their commonalities with their parents. Just be consistent about it. - Personally it's a bit surprising to see so much paladin anger when they get slay undead by 1) being part Cleric, 2) turning on auto-attack, and 3) stepping into the most recent expansion..
  18. Duder Augur

    Do you think SK's mana cost should be less effected than other classes were/are by the DoT revamps? And if so, why?
  19. Andarriel Augur

    Ill be making the popcorn and watching when necro's get ther dot revamp haha.

    Duder likes this.

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