Sk idea

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Sithsonn, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Brohg Augur

    Yeah see, this thing where you're only okay, and only hypothetically okay, with paladin ideas that mysteriously include making SKs OP, isn't an actual scenario. Paladins absolutely can improve and gain without giving also to a class already in such a good spot that its most entrenched partisans "cannot think of anything...sk need"
  2. sojero Augur

    I believe you misunderstood, go back and re read.
  3. AcemoneyFV Augur

    You know what Shadowknights really need? A big nerf. :D
    Lianeb and Orbital101 like this.
  4. Liljit Augur

    More dps from killing a mob....lmao. Does that dps even come to 1/2 of the dps that SKs produce, no.

    And does Spurn stack with cascading theft of defense...idk because there is zero equivalent on a paladin.

    We don’t want all the SK things and the Paladin things. We aren’t asking for 5 different FDs, some of which are a 3s reuse.
    We aren’t asking for HT. We aren’t asking to even have all the mitigation add ons that SKs get...

    But if we’re gonna be limited by “Paladins can stun, heal and rez”...then how about a third AA for AE stun/aggro, zero target limit.

    I know AE lifetap has no target limit.

    How about equal upgrades to alliance, harmonious...we didn’t even get them upgraded.
    Petalonyx and tyrantula like this.
  5. tyrantula Elder

    The amount of DPS Blessing of the Faithful isn't the issue, let's be real. The issue is getting the kill shot in anything but solo environment.
  6. p8aa Elder

    If you would take just a short time to do some research, you would see that cascading theft of defense is a SPA 162 ability with not a chance to proc each time. Paladins have access to their own SPA 162 ability that they can maintain nearly 100 % of the time, Protective Devotion.
    Spurn, which is a paladin and a SK ability, is also SPA 162.

    You have the same mitigation than SK, if you except Reaver's Bargain ability.
    SK self heal with lifetaps, and you self heal with your direct target heal spells or your other spells that don't require to target yourself like Valiant or Protective.
    Before Reaver's Bargain, paladins were in fact mitigating better on harder hitters, because SK relying on lifetap to crit to counteract hard hits, versus powerful on demand paladin heals spells.
    Just stop with your bla bla mitigation paladin <<<< SK it's completly over exaggerated.
  7. Cadira Augur

    Why are we excepting Reaver's Bargain? It's literally nothing short of an OP ability that Paladins get no form of. There's no exaggeration there.

    Oh, and SK dps combined with MC or sk epic too. Sure you don't have it all the time...but when you do, you can/do take on entire etw full of current mobs but that's not an exaggeration or anything.
  8. sojero Augur



    The only additional mitigation that sk get is reavers, i have said that I support a paladin version, but it has its draw backs too, if you use it wrong, bye bye mana and endo.

    I agree that it is not right that you didn't get upgrades to harmonious or alliance. You guys should get them just as any other class should have.

    You know I would have no issues with paladin having more ae agro, I could set them to doing the ae agro stuff so that the raids didn't lose the dps of the sk while having to do that stuff :p but I don't think that is in the dev intentions as they have said that before many times. And for the non target limit ae agro, yeah good luck on that, ours has a drawback that wakes up anything it hits, so you have to account that into it too.

    While you may like to underplay the amazing thing that are stuns, you really shouldn't, they are 100% mitigation during that time and they actually work on a good amount of adds during raids this year and have in the past too, oh and they have great agro. Also don't underplay how many years and still splash is relied upon in raids, its nothing short of an amazing ability. Rez you say, I take more paladin rez in raids than i do cleric, because its better to have paladins rez than take clerics off the tanks.

    You can back down to the more reasonable stuff to try and make it look like that was what i was talking about in the other thread, but it wasn't and you know that.

    And you can ask for harm touch, though i don't think they will give it to you :eek:
  9. Xaque New Member

    Still salty.... and believe only in truth, not facts.
  10. Liljit Augur

    [IMG]

    5 min auto attack on a dummy.

    2 million in self healing.

    0 lifetap spell spam.

    0 epic.
  11. Liljit Augur

    See my post on "lifetaps as sk heals".

    Also, although you mention that CTOD and spurn are SPA 162, you can absolutely have:

    CTOD
    Spurn
    Knight's Synergy
    and Tylix's Skin

    They fade as counters/dmg are eaten from each. I'll have to do more parsing...but it appeared that the initial dmg was so minimal and as each of those progressively faded, damage increased....

    So....SPA 162 or not, they're synergistic.
  12. ShadowMan Augur

    Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't Vampiric Consumption a proc from a weapon shared with paladins? And wouldn't some stuff like Healing Adept, Armor of the Inquisitor or Group Armor of the inquisitor come into play to amplify the return per proc in favor there? Like I remember the bash or riposte proc heal from Guardian allowing paladins to swarm entire zones of old content before they added counters to it. Because of how much more they can amplify the incoming healing for very long duration's whereas the proc heals incoming to a sk were not enough on their own to do the same.

    Don't get me wrong what sk's can do when under everything is very amazing but your also downplaying what paladins are capable of by saying look over here exclusively at their thing that maybe I can't do but ignore my thing over here.
    Xeladom and sojero like this.
  13. Liljit Augur

    meh....I linked an auto attack parse of 2 mil self healing, guarantee when I do it on my raid geared paladin, it won't be anywhere close. More than 50% of which was a passive AA tap ability and not the vampiric proc from a weapon.

    I didn't click any epic or have mortal coil which would add 70-80% of melee dmg returned as healing. I'm just saying that there is NO comparison between the two in self healing, survivability or dps. And the SK excuse always relates back to paladin splash, group healing, stun or rez....

    Sounds like you might be the one who is downplaying the abilities of your class.
  14. Xaque New Member

    Vampiric Consumption :

    Weapon Proc, shared with paladins



    Melee Tap

    This one is very interesting. I assume it is from Dark Absorption which is a 1% leech from melee DPS. Given that on a 5 min parse, your melee DPS was then (687,700 / .01 /300sec) = 226KDPS from just melee. This smells a lot like ADPS boosting the result significantly.

    Link the whole parse, lets separate your truth from facts.
  15. Liljit Augur

    /GU Combat Dummy Dena in 316s, 23004k @72798 | #1 Azazal 21124k@66848 (69259 in 305s) [91.83%]

    Next.

    Touch of the Curse did quite a bit too...another passive melee swinging AA self healing ability.

    Self buffed only. Didn't even have haste other than Jann's Veil.

    Swinging mercy.

    Paladin comparison inc with Ro's Curve so the proc's match - raid buffed.

    [IMG]

    1/2 the healing of the SK....fully raid buffed and current expansion raid geared with the current expansion raid wep with raid haste, raid procs...

    Again in summary, self buffs only on an SK, no haste, last years raid wep....double the self healing of a paladin PASSIVELY. Counting the weapon procs, passive self healing = 2 sources....SK self healing passively = 4 sources.

    Stripped the paladin down to self buffs and jann.

    [IMG]


    Can we **** now?
  16. Sithsonn Lorekeeper

    We are the most Self-healing Class of the 3 tanks, **** the group tho!
  17. Liljit Augur

    I know that, you know that. And we both know we aren't even talking about tap spam. If we compared paladin self healing to sk self healing with spam, the result would be even worse.

    The difference comes in group/raid healing for paladins.

    What I'm getting at overall, is there is a pretty hefty penalty on paladins compared to their knight counterpart for the ability to heal and rez.

    Our crushes for dps/aggro cost more mana and do less dps than taps and have no healing. Comparing them to terrors, they have no ability to proc any sort of mitigation. The top crush costs 1202 m to the top terror at 102 m. We are also limited to only 2 crushes vs unlimited terrors.

    Our admonish line has hate redux on it.

    We could go on and on about the disparities between the two classes, but there is a clear winner in survivability and dps.

    Paladin's only win out in raid setting/desirable in raid setting for splash and recently GoL.

    Like a paladin, I believe there should be a fair balance and there currently doesn't appear to be.
  18. sojero Augur

    You need to take a step back and think some more. There is a lot more to the rando proc heals and you shouldn't try to compare crushes and terror, they are different.
  19. Lianeb Augur

    I was going to post a warrior self healing parse.

    I couldn't decide on raid or self buff for comparison so i didn't post.
    Liljit likes this.
  20. Liljit Augur

    Why not? Because they are out of balance from each other? Because they are both overhate, meant at building aggro? Or because one is instant cast, low mana cost and procs mitigation buff?

    Take out vampiric consumption proc from weps. Look at the self healing from AA passive abilities on one class and then the other.

    Every time a paladin casts it has a chance at interrupt, since we're taking melee damage, just like an SK. But the SK has more passive self healing.

    Blessing of Life was 195k worth of healing over 5 min for the paladin.

    All 3 passive abilities given to SKs via AA beat that...some by a lot.

    It's okay guys, the next parse will be SK epic healing or maybe mortal coil.

    PS: Warriors need to smoke knights in mitigation.

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