[SK] Holding aggro off of a wiz merc on Burn

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Gr8fuldave, Mar 21, 2015.

  1. Zantor Augur

    Also the spear line does nice snap aggro. I always have my wizzy merc on burn, i pull with terror, cast impose for power and spear line and usually enough aggro as long as i have voice of thule on. Sometimes the wizzy merc gets a few good crits in and the 2 AA AE spells will then get you all the aggro you need.
  2. Ravengloome Augur

    Crits are not more aggro then non crits.

    If they are getting aggro early its probably because they are using Pure Wildether earlier then they normally would, or you had a resist on spear or impose. Or some combination of those 2.
  3. Ferry-Tunare Augur

    Resists affect spell agro?
  4. Ravengloome Augur


    uh yeh lol
  5. Croak Augur


    Raid TDS T1 gets more damage bonus than group T3

    Worn Effect:Cleave IX - 45
    1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit with 1H Blunt by 360%
    [snip]
    11: Increase Chance to Critical Hit with Frenzy by 360%
    12: Increase Hit Damage Bonus by 45

    Worn Effect:Cleave VII - 34
    1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit with 1H Blunt by 280%
    [snip]
    11: Increase Chance to Critical Hit with Frenzy by 280%
    12: Increase Hit Damage Bonus by 34

    From: http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7760
    Thus raid cleave has more damage bonus so gives more hate per swing
    Oh... and then there is cleave stacking with cultural - not sure if that is current still
  6. Ravengloome Augur

    hahahaha.

    Considering a single hate spell with VOT is worth 15k+ for you guys. 11 hate per swing is really nothing.
  7. Croak Augur

    It is all incremental...
    11 hate per swing, 2-2.5 swings per second (only looked quickly at lv90 & lv100 grp parse), that is 660+ every 30 seconds.
    If you are using cultural you might have that extra in say 5 slots, and your swing rate is no doubt higher (3?).

    Add in whatever modifiers and that is a fair chunk of passive additional hate. 3K+ x modifiers passive over 30 seconds... just from different cleave (which you claimed has no effect)
    It is more if you go for a 30 delay weapon ;)
    Plus it is 100% reliable, no random proc unless mob is invulnerable.

    Back in House of Thule there was only 2 damage bonus difference between group t4 & raid cultural, but you could still stack 22 damage bonus x5 (if you had warchief in 5 slots)
  8. Ravengloome Augur

    You do realize how little that amount is in the grand scheme of overall hate generation right.
  9. Croak Augur

    First you need to factor in the benefit of playing a tank proactively to hold agro enough for a DPS merc on burn vs balanced compared to playing a DPS toon more proactively (and thus more DPS) and having the tank more on autopilot.

    Then look at the benefit of say using RK III instead of RK II Terrors
    Terror of Narus Rk. II = 8218 hate
    Terror of Narus Rk. III = 8629 hate

    That is only 411 extra hate every 7.5 seconds

    So 4x over 30 seconds = 1644

    With Poira the difference is 347 x4 = 1388

    So stacking 5x raid cleave is 3k+ more hate over 30 seconds with no extra work (attack on)
    Using 2 RKIII terrors (Poira + Narus) gives 3032 more hate over 30 seconds compared to RKII but that assumes proactive casting.

    But if I have a tank on almost autopilot, to concentrate on DPS toons, it isn't casting as much.

    So yes I am aware... I am not sure you are.

    I know from my own boxing when not using [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software], working less on holding agro on SK and concentrating on DPS toons ends up with mobs dead faster.
  10. Croak Augur

    Actually got my math wrong on stacking raid cleave

    Raid:11 + 45 + 45 + 45 + 45 = 181 per swing
    Group: 34 per swing

    147 damage per swing difference

    147 x 2.5 x 30 = 11025 additional passive hate over 30 seconds... oops
  11. Ravengloome Augur

    So let me get this straight your going to stack Cleave and give up over 100ac for a marginal hate and dps boost, whilst neglecting critical focii?

    The reason I said it is irrelevant is because the most Cleave you can have without focii loss is hands, boots, and arms.

    Unless your silly enough to give up superior DPS bonuses on other slots to get more cleave.

    But even then your still losing AC for something you don't need.
  12. Croak Augur


    I am not going to lol at you but I really should.

    Your own suggested spell lineup only mentions 1 dot
    https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...ing-and-agro-guide.219568/page-2#post-3201175
    (p.s. SK dots get resisted - if you really need the hate rather than DPS, often going with pure hate is the better option)

    Why focus for a spell line you are not using?

    Other than cleave you always need

    Fero
    Magic detrimental
    Detrimental Haste

    You mention 1 dot but in all honesty it doesn't matter which one (too much), so you can use the focus from your range for corruption. If you use disease as well it is mostly for debuff, and doesn't stack on raids anyway.

    You could actually have 5 slots with cleave most of the time
    Arms
    Hands
    Boots
    Bracer x1
    Chest

    Plus if you have 8 raid drops for your augs, I bet you can get 9 or 10, and have extra bracers for DPS situations.

    The AC argument is moot - plenty of SKs use cultural before they have access to the highest tier drops, and even then choose cultural.
  13. Ravengloome Augur

    That spell lineup was a guideline that did not involve full burn.

    If your willing to sacrifice 35 gear ac and 75 ppurity to gain maybe 500 sustained dps (but lose more then that on a burn) go for it.

    And unless you plan on not tanking going cultural in your chest is just silly. I mean you could swap in your set armor BP before clicking deflection, but that takes time you more than likely do not have.

    Swapping gear mid event is so 1999.
  14. Brohg Augur

    You're moving the goalposts, Ravengloome. In the final analysis there may be other reasons to not go the cultural route, but the point has been made. If Agro is the goal, stacking Cleave is real and it helps.
  15. Ravengloome Augur

  16. Brohg Augur

    Is the cost related to holding agro off a wizard merc on burn?
  17. Endless Augur

    I started running 2x wiz mercs on burn. If I leave them in auto-assist, I can mostly keep agro off them with constant attention and even then I lose agro sometimes and am chasing mobs hitting /taunt. It's not too bad, but not as relaxing. One of the mercs has Silent Acranum 5 and the other is only at 2.

    Or, I use /mercassist, get the mob in camp and engaged with my warrior, click through some agro buttons and then call the mercs to assist. Usually mobs at 99% health still. And I maintain agro easily. I also don't use as many /disc and burn through my endurance bar this way. I almost never have to try to grab agro back. I can pretty much get to that point and go AFK and all will be well.

    The DPS result looking at my parsing is more impressive when the mercs are autoassist, Lot bigger numbers for the damage they do. But in real world usefulness, it amounts to the mob dying @4 seconds sooner. However, my endurance bar goes a whole lot farther when I call assist, so less down time. Perhaps once my mercs are Silent Arcanum 7+?, leaving them in auto assist will be a none issue.
  18. Ravengloome Augur

    Thats interesting I always had issues with /mercassist, there seemed to be a lag for me, sometimes they would sometimes they would not assist

    But my wiz mercs all have max Silent Arcanum (which makes a massive difference), so I just leave them on autoassist
  19. Endless Augur

    I had problems like that as well. I took to hitting the mercassist and waiting. Usually both my caster mercs would assist if I waited before hitting any other hotkey before seeing them animate. It was still kinda a guess though. Now my Mercassist hotkey is;

    /pause 10, /assist player name
    /mercassist
    /g Mercenaries are attacking!

    Waiting till I get the group say from both my box accounts that mercs were attacking before hitting any other hotkey always worked.

    Other problem I had was if I pulled more than I can handle, which is just two in some cases if the mob is hard hitting, even con and they get a good round in. I'm trying to go defensive, mezz with my chanter, which is just a simple AE mezz, then my casters get agro because I was a second late gaining agro and it gets a little confusing. Merc's not attacking till told to do so makes that a non-issue. Hopefully at Silent Arcanum 8, they'll have different behavior when more than one mob is agro'd in camp radius. Currently (or last I had them at auto), they attack just the same. Or maybe after lvl100, I'll just be more able. I noticed at 96, things started getting easier in Deadhill HA's.
  20. Endless Augur

    Noticed after a certain level a while back that my enchanter's pet was generating huge agro at the beginning of a fight, like 400+%. Very similar to Projection of Fury, but not as long lasting or as useful no doubt. And that is with pet taunt turned off. After thinking it over, I went ahead and put agro swords equipped and turned pet taunt on. I think it gives me a little more breathing room on incoming pulls to build agro before caster mercs drops a 150k DD. Enchanter pet is usually top on agro list by a huge margin and then drops off fast. Usually enough to overcome caster mercs nuking early and me not rushing enough. And it's not like I have to fight for agro with the pet, since we both stand next to the mob in a fight and I automatically get agro no matter what percentage the pet has, so pet agro doesn't even matter except for range DPS. Would seem letting the pet be an agro magnet can only help.