Dont know about rof but would be godly combo for swarming. Bard start songs at 75% and give sk huge ds and weapon procs for ripos.
I box SK/Shaman/Bard. 9k, 4k, 2.5k AA respectively, and the Sk is raid geared. If I HAD to give one up it would be the Bard hands down, as much as I love the little guy and this is why .... Box wise they aren't a lot of DPS (even with RoF raid weapons). There CC abilities I find a Shaman can usually handle if properly played and the Shaman's healing, buffs (both defensive and offensive) and ADPS just make it a better combo especially at lower levels. As far as swarming goes, the Shaman wins again. Bard might help you kill mobs faster but the Shaman is capable of making an un survivable swarm livable while giving you extra DPS to boot with there heals, slow proc and Talisman of CAT line of buffs. To be honest the only thing a Bard brings to a Shadowknight that a Shaman doesn't is tracking and lock picking... none of which are huge in todays game as far as I am concerned. As a 3 box goes, my SK main can survive on Shaman heals long enough for the Shaman, Bard and 3 Wizard mercs to burn down 2 million HP trash mobs in the 30sec range. With only 2 Wizard mercs and 1 Cleric merc its almost boring to have 3 toons up.
Bard Epic clisk is godly with an SK swarming especially in addition or the DS songs. If you think the Bard is only adding tracking and pick lock then you aren't playing the Bard right
I box the following. 100 Bard, 6.5kaa, 100 Mage 5.5kaa, 100 Mage 3.9kaa, 100 Necro 4.3kaa and 100 Shammy 5.8kaa all VoA T1 group. My bard is a critical part of that set up and put out some respective DPS in song as she dose not melee. SL names last about 60 sec, If I change the song line up to only focus on caster and melee that time increases to 90 sec or more. I can keep a large part of the Vilefester/Cragbeak area down and keep that up non-stop for well over 2 hours with out a med break and that’s with out Chanter crack or mod rods. Dantibus, Don’t give up on the Bard.
Code-zero, Shaman have a 2.0 also... its pretty awesome in its own right. Bards are pretty awesome but when it comes down to a Shaman vs. a Bard I can list 10 to 1 how a Shaman brings more to a SK both while swarming and in real content. Infact I kind of already did if you read the post I made. Conehead, your referring to Mage box group #10,392,785. It has absolutely nothing to do with duoing a Sk and a Bard. I am sure your ranged DPS casters get a ton out of the bards ADPS capabilities. Infact I wonder why you have a Shaman, wouldn't a Enchanter do more for you? I guess the buffs are pretty spiffy aren't they?
I really don't want to get into a Bard vs Shaman debate here...fact of the matter is that playing each of them is a TOTALLY different experience. If you are looking for a "pure power, what is the best possible box combination I can come up with" discussion, then feel free to listen to what Dantibus has to say. That said...I LOVE my bard. Bard has been my main since 1999. I added a cleric in 2002 and SK in 2009. All 3 now have max aa's. I don't raid with my SK, but I have a few raid pieces here and there, complimented mostly by upper floors raid gear that I 3 box for. I can't really comment on swarming, because I don't really do swarming...but I CAN say this. Bards are built as an ADPS class. They pump up Spell DPS and they pump up Melee dps. SK's are a hybrid class that is very unique. They are unique in the sense that they are the only class that has their survivability increased as a direct correlation of their DPS increase. Faster hits = more lifetap from melee effects/2.0 for sk. Harder hits = same. Making sk lifetaps hit harder = same. Focusing the SK's dps focuses their survivability. Since SK's have both Spell AND melee components...it gives more for the bard to focus and makes greater use of the focus that exists. On burns of ~1 minute I hit ~70k dps on my SK. Drops to about 40-45k dps around 2 minutes. This is with bard discs going...no shaman stuff. With SK epic 2.0 up at the same time, I am healing myself just as much as I am damaging mobs...I literally don't heal my SK when I fight named, and I can DEFINITELY tell the difference when the bard isn't there. With bard + SK I actually went 15 minutes in the chellith reborn mission 1 without getting a single heal from the cleric. Everything was passive healing, no discs, no lifetap spamming...just lifetap procs/melee procs/sk 2.0. So...if the question is do Bards and Sk's work well together? The answer is a resounding yes...they work VERY nicely together if you like playing both classes. Do Shamans and SK's work well together too? Absolutely. The question is, would you rather play a Bard or a Shaman? Because they are EXTREMELY different classes to play...ESPECIALLY to play well. I will say this...a LOT of people limit their bards to a sliver of their potential but putting up /melody and maybe auto attack and afk'ing to focus on other things. Bards can do a lot more than that. Also...limiting yourself to having your tank pull is a great way to limit your groups efficiency. Tank pulling is EXTREMELY inefficient...so take that for what its worth. ~MrGPAC
No, you have completely missed the point. Bards bring a lot to the group. As for the buffs, that's a very small part. Shammy is set up for dps, dot city. The A5 Merc healer is enough and on rare occasions falls below 80 percent mana. No heals form the shammy other than counter bias. For my play style chanter would be a 5th wheel, crack, cc maybe charm. I charm with the bard, sleep if I cant do that. Bard SK Shammy is a nice set up. You just need to get the synergy going for each to work not only off but with each other. I use macros so im getting about 40 to 60 percent potential from each...I know this
Just so we are clear, I don't believe the Bard is a bad choice. Infact I play one because I rather enjoy the class. That said, I have tried to explain why a Shaman is, IMHO, a better choice for a 2box setup with a Shadowknight. Yes a Bard will give you excellent ADPS, but then so can a Shaman. Yes a Bard is capable of decent DPS, but then again a Shaman is capable of insane DPS.... if you can play a SK well enough to keep agro off a Necro who can't FD. A Bard will bring you some DS and AC buffs, but nothing compared to what a Shaman can do for you buff wise in soo many more ways. A Bard can help keep your groups mana up, tho a Shaman will heal better then a Merc cleric and doesn't have Mana issues to begin with, even with Mana drain effects. A bard can do some impressive things for CC, and so can a Shaman, even if its in a different form. And even tho I love him ,my Bard has yet to throw me a 96% rez... yep Shaman do that now! Now back to the OP question and I don't think there are many SK/Bard duo's thriving in RoF. Are they capable of scraping by, sure... but THRIVING, I don't think so. MrGPAC seems to stay in old content, HoT (Mobs and nameds have NODDA for hp's compared to RoF) and seems to be doing well there with his THREE box setup, but I wonder if he has tried T2 RoF or greater running his SK/Bard duo against 15million hp mobs... So when I say I wouldn't give up my Shaman for a Bard, im not trying to put down Bards... I am simply trying to show him that as far as an SK main goes, Shaman have a lot more to bring to them then a Bard does. And if he plans to main a Bard... I would seriously reconsider a Sk as a second box, unless you have a cleric to 3 box with him! Tho if your gonna 3 box I plan to argue SK/Shm/Bard over SK/Cleric/Bard so ....
Cone head, Sir... I think you have missed the point because your not reading the very first post in this thread. Boxing a SK and a Bard together.... and when you talk about your results with a CASTER , RANGED , DPS group it has absolutely nothing, zip, zero, NODDA to do with a stand in the hurt zone face to face MELEE fight with a SK/Bard combo. As you've stated the Shaman is high DPS... mine tends to be greater DPS then my Bard by a long shot, tho I know I hinder the Bards potential. As for why a Shaman makes a better companion to a SK then a Bard I think I have beat that horse dead by now ...
No...I do not hang out in older content...I do current content. HoT was a joke named wise...even when it was current sk's would solo named like they were trash. What I am 3 boxing is the HoT upper floors RAID, not group. I think you grossly under-estimate the value of bard ADPS in your equations...ESPECIALLY BURN ADPS. Over 1000 seconds each...no spells, attack on only (spell adps is far higher for bards than shamans). SK by himself (self buffs only): 5866 SK with just shaman buffs: 7260 (124% increase) SK with just bard (self buffs + bard songs, no shaman buffs): 10316 (176% increase) That's a 52% difference in ADPS increase. Due to the nature of the Bard ADPS increase, that is mainly added through higher lifetap procs and higher/faster melee hits...add in sk 2.0 plus other melee to lifetap procs...and that's a huge increase in passive healing. That also doesn't get into burn differentials (bards add more burn adps than shamans). It also doesn't get into DPS increase in Wizard mercs. I get over 25k dps burns out of my wizard mercs...3 of em is 75k dps constantly added to group. I can EASILY drop 15 million hps before Visage + 2.0 wear off the SK...Hell, I'm usually pulling another couple mobs after to not waste the discs. Shamans are OBVIOUSLY a great box option, and work VERY nicely with sk's. You did a GREAT job outlining why they are So do bards. Again...the question was NOT "What's the best box to get for my SK?". It was "Do Bards and SK's box well together?". The answer is YES. Hell...for all we know, based on the question, the guy has a Bard main and is asking if adding an SK box to that would be a good move or not. ~MrGPAC
For general use/functionality, I think I'd prefer a shammy. But for pure swarming? Monstrous DS's and procs (and mana regen, something SK's might have trouble with in such a setup)? Totally the Bard. Depending on where doing it, but when the swarm starts getting to the low 20's, send the bard off to keep scooping up mobs so the SK can keep MC running forever? Then when all the large amount of mobs start to pop again, drop them on the SK and go back to songs. But to keep sane and do other stuff apart from swarming? yeah, the Shammy is going to give you a few other options.
MrGPAC, You did an outstanding job running numbers to make Bards look 52% better then Shaman ADPS wise but I didn't see you account for there Epic,Talisman of CAT line, Ancestral Aid etc. etc... ADPS wise I don't think Bards are 52% better, honestly I doubt there 5.2%. Further more your talking about 3 boxing, and doing so with a Cleric. I thank you for that because what you've done is show how necessary a healer is. Oddly I have not waged war against the Bard class, I have simply stated that a Shaman makes a better companion for a SK then a Bard does in a 2 toon RoF environment, yet everyone has jumped in stating that I need to learn to play the Bard, I don't use it as well as I can blah blah blah... Well if someones up to the task I am on Drinal , we can take my Sk & Shaman vs. your, SK & Bard and go kill some 2million hp mobs in RoF and i'm betting my SK/Shm +2 Wiz mercs beat out your Sk/Bard 1 healer merc 1 Wiz merc pretty hands down. Considering by MrGPAC's own math I am starting with a 25k DPS head start... I am betting your Bards not gonna out DPS my Shaman by 25k DPS if he can at all and I guarantee your healer merc runs out of mana before my Shaman does, for that matter I bet your Bard does too...
Oh this is just a fascinating conversation. My Shadowknight only has around 1100 AA's, and I also have a 74 bard, 74 Shaman, 74 Mage and now a 74 Necro. I am completely stuck with what to run with. I really don't want to box three guys, the alt-tabbing bothers me. But if I run SK/Bard, I feel DPS is lacking. If I run SK/Shm, I still feel DPS is lacking. Help meeee decide.
Here's the thing...you keep making bad assumptions that have nothing to do with the questions or data provided. I started bard only in 1999, added cleric in 2002, then added SK in 2009. Further, I mainly keep playing the cleric because it helps my guild out for raids. A healer is NOT necessary for trash mobs... Wizard mercs without bards do more like 20k dps...don't forget the bard ADPS effects them. More assumptions. I had ancestral aid, but not Epic 2.0...from either class in those parses. I also didn't have quick time or fierce eye, or bard BP click...AND I didn't factor in any spells, which the bard focus's but the shaman does not. I was looking at sustained differential with minimal room for personal bias effecting the DPS outcomes (missing a bash or spell cast, or a resist in one parse but not the other). Bards ARE ADPS...that is their primary function...of COURSE they are going to have significant inpact on ADPS...moreso than a Shaman who has many other primary functions, including personal DPS and healing. Its NOT a knock on shamans, who I have conceded repeatedly are a great class and a great combo for an SK. They also are a COMPLETELY different playing experience. I have tried shamans before...I do NOT enjoy them...I DO enjoy bards and sk's immensely. Again, the guy did NOT ask what is best combo for a shaman. Did not ask what best combo in the game was. ALL he asked was do Bard and SK make a good combo. YOU brought Shamans into the argument, no one else. Again...maybe the guy has a level 100 bard with max aa's and is thinking of adding an SK box to the equation... From a PURE POWER perspective...I 100% agree...shaman/sk is going to be a better combo if that is ALL you want. Completely different question from the one posed here. ~MrGPAC
As MrGPAC can't leave it alone and insists that you can roll through RoF without a healer ... pretty please teach me how to play my SK! LMAO~ A healer is absolutely necessary if you want to kill anything other then weak trash in Shards Landing, and that's not a bad assumption MrGPAC, its your own words. And incase you missed it, I specificly replied to the OP'ers question in post #9 paragraph 2 above. Please continue to forget your Cleric IS healing your 3 BOX group and adding a third wizard to the mix. Also please note that I added that if he was maining a Bard and not the SK that I would recommend not doing that as well ... Atleast not without a healer box to go with it~ Xerzist ~ your name sounded familiar when I saw it so I re read some box posts you have made recently and ill give you the same advice I did the first time. (my post, cut and paste from a previous post you made) Since you have abandoned your SK already, I'll take it that you don't have the stomach to properly level, gear, aug and AA a tank class... Welcome to Mage box group #13092873. That said the Shaman is really a waste, get a Bard. Your pet will not overly need the Shamans buffs, bards can slow and add CC and ADPS to the group. Seeing as your gonna go ranged caster anyways, probably bounce a Necro into the mix and add another pet to backup tank and add DPS both from themselves and the pets synergy ADPS from Bard stuffs.
Look...I got sidetracked too. YES, my SK can tank t2 stuff without a healer (or bard for that matter)...but all of my toons are max aa's and not a good example to move from. YES...if you want to level up two characters together...a shaman/SK is a better combination than SK bard (from a pure power perspective). Just had nothing to do with the original question. Non sequitor. NO clue why it bugged me but it did. Going to move on now. ~MrGPAC
/sigh http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=2602 have a rummage around the allakhazam spell lists, you'll figure it out.
Do bards have the best sustained damage shield in the game or is that mages? on that not the bard can also be a nice addition to a sk swarming as well...increase haste to 225% add multiple proccing spells for all of those ripos. can fade to make sure agro isnt taken, can pull more mobs and feign them to the sk if the sk has a good grove going.
