Simply raising XP doesn't really help casual players.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Strawberry, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. orionfox Lorekeeper

    Well at least EQ can do servers based on expansions.

    WoW is taking 2 years to re-create "Classic" :D
    code-zero likes this.
  2. Strawberry Augur

    To the player. There aren't many players running around who don't care if they have gear at all, or which gear they have. You can walk around with open slots for a while, but content will eventually prevent you from advancing like that, content will force you to start filling up your slots (unless like I said, you are completely carried by others like a baby, I don't think there are many players like that).

    Casual players do care about gear. Not every casual player might care about the cap on accuracy or what cleave effects do, but just like any other player, casuals realize that gear matters and that better gear is a way to advance in EQ. It allows you to discover new zones, it increases the amount of XP you can gain, and it decreases your risk of dying.

    XP and gear progression is what this game is based on to begin with, it is EQ, and XP and gear progression are closely intertwined. The gameplay revolves for 101% around vertical progression. Of course casuals care about gear.
  3. Machentoo Augur


    EQ figured it out too. Most TLP players just don't stick around for the eras where the problem is solved, though, for some reason. Doesn't make much sense.
    Genoane likes this.
  4. Zanarnar Augur

    It has been a while since I stepped foot in WoW, but I was unaware they offered instances of entire open-world zones to whomever wanted them.. When did they add that in?

    Note, dungeons designed to be instanced are very different then cloning an entire open-world zone for players on demand. There is just far too much going on in the open world zones to have too many of them running at once.

    And yes, if you didn't notice by the fact we hit the 20th anniversary of the game running, it is indeed an old game. I wouldn't call it busted, but it does have challenges that a game written today wouldn't have. Its also (arguably) still the best MMO on the market. So I guess we take the bad with the good until such a time as the bad can be mitigated via code changes or time making that issue moot.

    Making /pick zones pop more often will just lead to the server becoming unstable and crashing. Ugh I hate to even be agreeing with him, but Machentoo is exactly correct here.
  5. yerm Augur

    Have you ever met people who go all-in about who needs what items the most and nbg orders and etc? People (like me) who try to insist all tradeable loot is needed equally and nbg is bad? Ever been in a group where we fight? More commonly, and I mean a LOT more commonly, I find people I bring to groups just wanna chill and are cool with all rolling and cool with passing to others; they don't NOT care about loot at all, they are just unfussed/unconcerned (aka casual) about it.

    Likewise, I tend to pull aggressively and not respect large camps (aka frenzy camp is his room not everything to safe hall). I often get groupmates who are all for this and pull it on, some even worse and they'd snipe another camps named. Most though? A nice area for ourselves is good, downtime isn't the end of the world, and playing nice with neighbors is a good thing. They care about xp and want mobs but they are not concerned or fussed about getting everything.

    Back on combine they had this mob, furious jailor, and I ran some pug raids on it. We rolled on drops. I got some serious hate from people who lost rolls or someone won 2 or they did more dps should go first etc. A lot more people thanked me for organizing and giving them a chance. They wanted loot but didn't need to get it first or get it all, they weren't hardcore about it, they wanted a fair raid with new friends.

    If you need to legislate loot rules or constantly move camps to the next best spot or maximize dkp for bis and do all your quests before the server advances, that's fine, that's even pretty normal, but that's not casual.

    I like casuals, even though I wouldn't call myself one since 2004. I still carry a bit of that unfussed casual spirit. You guys and your pokemon master long unlocks do everything mindsets? You make me look like one in comparison.
  6. Green_Mage Augur

    Well on Agnarr people complained a lot during Kunark about stuff like epics, HS key, VP key. And all they got was this kind of handwavy shoulder shrugging crap about how it has to be that way.

    They bled players.
    .
    It's totally disingenuous not to fix the SK epic at this point. This combined with the RMT scene made me feel like the game was a bit of a swamp.

    Many people aren't going to stick around long enough for the fixes to take place...there like over a year out from the launch of the server.

    Part of it is annoyance with the "competitive" mechanics. Part of it is just burn out from "competing" for these things with other players which is the big time sink.
  7. Machentoo Augur


    If only there were servers already at that point...
  8. Green_Mage Augur

    People don't like joining old servers.

    Yes they are whiny and picky. That's how customers are.
  9. malaki Augur

    They did change the SK epic some.
  10. Green_Mage Augur

    Well hopefully these next servers go OK.

    Coirnav was just badly timed and the slow EXP was not a great selling point. At least that appears to be the case to me as someone who played briefly there.

    I think people have been very clear though. they don't want to join old servers, the don't want to be blocked by other players.

    Many of them don't really like boxing RMTers either. But I admit that problem is a little harder to just flat out solve and move on from.
  11. Jadefox Augur


    You're one of those sad souls that leaves off the RPG of EQ's description, aren't you?

    --Jade wishes you well in your gear simulator
  12. Gorgol the Ogre Elder

    This was very poignant Mepps, especially about feeling the wind in West Karana one more time. I can still remember my first days in the world's first 3D MMO and how amazing and revolutionary it truly was at the time.

    Thanks for sharing your insight in what the Daybreak team understands about players coming back for the TLP experience. And yes, I think there is no better way to re-experience EQ for new or returning players than these now yearly TLPs Daybreak has been launching. I know I would never have returned otherwise.
    Mepps and Jadefox like this.
  13. Ishbu Augur

    Being casual or not is not like having a gender, you dont get to pick what you identify as. Instead it is determined by how you play and what you try to do when playing.

    Someone may want to be defined as casual because they choose not to spend the time to participate in a high end raid guild. That doesnt make them casual if they still log on for 20 hours a week and grind in only groups comprised of the best classes in the best xp zones, as an example.
  14. Runes Augur

    To me a casual player is someone that is not bound by any time or play constraints in their game. They can play when they want and how they want and typically will not be part of a Guild that wants to hit all EQ content fast.

    Hardcore player to me is someone that has a playtime obligation imposed on them, whether to a guild or a group of friends and has to answer in some way to others. Within the Hardcore player world you have varying degrees of "Hardcoreness" with varying RA requirements, Batphones, Raid Boss tries and server 1st desires.

    Runes
  15. Balderdash Lorekeeper

    There is nothing wrong with the do everything Pokémon long unlock mindset, nor is there anything wrong with quick blast through Everquest history mindset as well. I learned on The Combine the shorter unlocks didn’t work for me, I much preferred the 5 months of GoD and the 5 months of DoDH, it allowed me to catch up on content that I had to skip. I know there were people in my guild that were pulling their hair out about the long unlocks, bu I was lovin it. It’s just different personal preferences and neither are wrong.
  16. Balderdash Lorekeeper

    Repeatedly calling casual players “stupid,lazy and sponges” is not useful to any discussion.
  17. Balderdash Lorekeeper

    In the spirit of what you posted I will post my “personal” experiences with TLPs and what I want. To preface, I am a 20 year paying customer who boxes and has never used a krono. My boxing has evolved from “true boxing” 3 accounts in 1999 to the potential to 6 box on one computer now. Due to work/life structure I play off peak hours but I likely play at least 12 to 15 hours a week.

    I played on The Combine from Launch day to the merge with Xegony. It was a nice blast through EQ history but I pretty much played it as a spectator as I was unable to keep up with the pace. I played on Fippy from launch until half way through Underfoot, so about 4 years on that server. I was able to keep up with the raid schedule and raid gearing but kept failing behind on flagging and had to be 85’d into most raid zones post TBS. reduced flagging requirements on 3 month unlock servers may have retained me and others like me, keeping up with levels and aa was never an issue.

    I have played on Ragefire/lockjaw since launch so again almost 4 years and I can see myself continuing for a couple more years on this format however people (including you developers?) have forgotten how successful the Ragefire format was at launch on the demand side. It was so popular that Lockjaw had to be created (thank you for that), /picks had to be created (thank you for that), Phinny had to be created and AOC’s had to be created. I don’t think anybody can argue the success of the Ragefire format on the demand side. It’s not perfect but nothing is perfect.

    My perfect TLP from my experience for me is another Ragefire with no truebox. picks and AOC’s from the beginning but with some tweaks to make flagging easier/quicker starting with DoDH or later and maybe reducing Classic to 4 months (although I still love classic). This would keep me playing and paying for another 6 or 7 years but more years as I am not done with Ragefire yet.
  18. Natal Augur

    Hate to break it to you, but I have been to West Karana. There is no wind. ;)
  19. Jadefox Augur

    Turn your fan on high.
    Maybe spray some pine-scent

    --Special Effects Jade
  20. snailish Augur

    This thread is all over the place....


    -Self-definition can be problematic... in part because people aren't always honest with themselves.

    -Depending on the race you choose, some of the so-called "newbie" quests will take you hours upon hours to do and will require you to be a fair bit higher than level 5-10. For some this is interesting and fun, others skip it entirely.

    -Putting Newbie armor quests in before Luclin negates pretty much all the early era itemization of the game. They put a lot of work into setting those quests to PoP. I don't want them revisiting that --spend dev time on other things.

    -No focus effects on Mangler in early eras frees up a lot of gear slots... no longer 1-2 options for certain casters in the chest slot because that was the only way to get a juicy focus. The entire droppable economy and tradeskill interplay just got improved by this adjustment. Doesn't mean everyone will like it, doesn't mean everyone will appreciate how it benefits them (If you just krono best in slot... this is a power strip, particularly if you don't value in-era content being slightly more challenging).

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