Simply raising XP doesn't really help casual players.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Strawberry, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    I think the term casual is unhelpful and virtually meaningless in discussion. Everyone has their own definition, which coincidentally seems to match their views if they consider themselves casual. We should try to be more specific about what each of us wants and spend our energy there.

    I think players are much more diverse than just casual or not, that we can't claim to exist in any certain bucket where everyone agrees, and that we won't ever have a server that sustains a legitimate population where all of one single person's desires are met. Demanding such non-compromise as if the entire world obviously agrees with you is not feedback.

    Some players want to play and not care much about gear or stats or even success. Some players do care that they achieve something, but don't care much about what or when. Some players care what they achieve, but don't care how long it takes to get there. Some players want to play and get where they are going in an amount of time that suits them, but not others. Some players play to race and win and gloat. These are different experiences. Which is casual?

    Some players play for the world, for memories, for story, for friends. Some players just want to feel the wind in West Karana one more time. Some players want to feel <insert age> again. Some players just want to try new things, or complete that quest they didn't the last time around. Believe it or not, some players don't want to visit a game's forums, but still expect their experiences to be respected. Some players want to stay in classic forever. Some players think the game gets good at Velious. Or PoP. Or DoD. Or SoD. Some players don't understand how anyone could play on TLPs.


    It will be more impactful for you and easier for us if we can get more in the habit of simply stating what we personally want and why, letting others disagree, accept some compromise, and leave the righteousness about what imaginary group of non-existing players was listened to or not, understood or not, catered to or not, for somewhere else. Like, reddit or something.
  2. Barton The Mischievous

    Actually some words have "meanings" not just one so point out which definition below everyone agreed to , Thanks

    Ok ca·su·alDictionary result for casual
    /ˈkaZHo͞oəl/Submit
    adjective
    adjective: casual
    1.
    relaxed and unconcerned.
    "she regarded his affairs with a casual indulgence"
    synonyms:relaxed, friendly, natural, informal, unceremonious, unpretentious, easygoing, free and easy, uninhibited, open; informallaid-back
    "the inn's casual atmosphere"
    antonyms:formal
    made or done without much thought or premeditation.
    "a casual remark"
    synonyms:eek:ffhand, random, impromptu, spontaneous, unpremeditated, unthinking, unstudied, unconsidered, parenthetical, passing, throwaway, trivial; More
    antonyms:premeditated
    done or acting in a desultory way.
    "to the casual observer, rugby looks something like soccer"
    synonyms:cursory, perfunctory, superficial, passing, fleeting, summary, desultory, careless; More
    antonyms:thorough, careful
    done or acting without sufficient care or thoroughness.
    "the casual way in which victims were treated"
    synonyms:indifferent, apathetic, uncaring, uninterested, unconcerned; More
    antonyms:careful, concerned
    2.
    not regular or permanent.
    synonyms:temporary, part-time, impermanent, freelance; More
    antonyms:permanent, full-time
    employed or established on a temporary or irregular basis.
    "casual jobs"
    synonyms:temporary, part-time, impermanent, freelance; More
    antonyms:permanent, full-time
    (of a sexual relationship or encounter) occurring between people who are not regular or established sexual partners.
    "they don't do one-night stands or casual flings"
    synonyms:promiscuous, recreational, extramarital; More
    3.
    happening by chance; accidental.
    "he pretended it was a casual meeting"
    synonyms:chance, accidental, random, unintentional, unplanned, unintended, inadvertent, unexpected, unforeseen, unanticipated, unlooked-for, occurring by chance/accident, fortuitous, coincidental, fluky, serendipitous, adventitious, aleatory
    "a casual meeting with two students changed his life"
    antonyms:planned, intentional
    4.
    without formality of style or manner, in particular (of clothing) suitable for everyday wear rather than formal occasions.
    "a casual short-sleeved shirt"
    synonyms:informal, not formal, relaxed, comfortable, sloppy, leisure, sportif, everyday; More
    antonyms:formal, smart
    noun
    noun: casual; plural noun: casuals
    1.
    a person who does something irregularly.
    "a number of casuals became regular customers"
    BRITISH
    a worker employed on an irregular or temporary basis.
    synonyms:temporary worker, part-timer, freelance, freelancer; informaltemp
    "we employ eight full-time staff and ten casuals"
    antonyms:full-timer
    2.
    BRITISH
    clothes or shoes suitable for everyday wear rather than formal occasions.
    Tarvas likes this.
  3. Jadefox Augur

    I agree to .... Yes.

    --Helpful Jade
  4. orionfox Lorekeeper

    IMHO I consider myself a casual. I love the newbie armor quests. Its there and gives a a focus while doing what I normally would be doing. I like the classic mid level armor quests like crafted. I consider those casual because you are not killing something you dont need over and over for a 1% drop. The required effort is relatively easy but it to me it works like a breadcrumb quest, ie. what should I be killing at this level.

    If it required me to hit 5-6 different newbie yards for pieces, or had a ridiculously low drop rate or required me to group, I would say its not casual.
  5. malaki Augur

    I think there's a big disconnect on the whole between casual and low playtime.
  6. Tarvas Augur


    Since we are describing players, I fall into the adjective usage, number 1 on your list of stuff. You are, however, correct and I am wrong in assuming a single meaning of someone who generally relaxed and unconcerned.
  7. Toromir New Member

    Raising xp helps me and I am a casual player so your wrong. Where's the next thread so I can post my opinion as fact?
  8. Strawberry Augur

    There are people who do to not even care about which gear they have or if they have gear at all, it's not a viable playstyle since they are carried by others (often very close friends / family) and they make up a minuscule amount of the playerbase.

    But this is not who people are referring to when people say "casual", when people reference casual players, they are overwhelmingly referring to people who have limited playtime, playtime that is often inconsistent, people who generally don't raid or raid casually.

    (no idea why I'm even having to say this)
  9. Strawberry Augur

    top of this page:

    [IMG]
  10. Barton The Mischievous

    I wish we all could agree on a definitive definition of exactly what a casual gamer is , at this time I however have to agree with Mepps the word/term means different things to different people.

    I think that may be because Casual can also mean " not regular or permanent " or "a person who does something irregularly"

    This is why nailing down exactly what a "casual" gamer is difficult and why it seems a lot of people disagree with each other about it at least to me.

    One person uses casual and means - relaxed or unconcerned

    Another uses casual and means - "not regular or permanent " "doing something irregularly"

    Anywho I will personally endeavor to do as Mepps suggested from now on and be more specific and put things in a personal context
  11. Strawberry Augur

    Right. Accessible quests like the newbee armor are the type of quests that help casual players.

    Quests where someone can log on for 30 minutes, find people doing the same thing, get an item for the quest which will result in gear, or currency for gear, and do so without having to stay logged in for 4 hours to get a mob to spawn.

    The Arena Master's Challenge in freeport is another example like this. OMM missions is another example. Monster missions is another example. DoN / DoD missions is another example of this.

    But classic - PoP severely lacks in this. Almost all gear is acquired through static spawns...a reason I disagree with the argument that simply increasing spawn rate is a solution, it's not a solution for casual players.
  12. Accipiter Old Timer


    Really? You're gonna be "that guy"?
  13. Green_Mage Augur

    If they actually wanted a perfect server for casuals, its pretty obvious what to do IMO:

    unlimited /pick

    Sitting around waiting for a camp kills casuals. That's why they stop playing.

    Also, all it takes is one time of being blocked by some 6-boxing clown to permanently turn people off these servers.

    There would still be krono and people selling items in EC...its just the prices would be driven way down because you could camp anything you wanted to whenever you wanted to....some would still prefer to buy items rather than camp them.

    A ruleset like this would go very well with faster raid unlocks like Selos. But the key thing would be a FV ruleset -- where all items are drop-able (trade-able).

    So there would still a sense of item rarity -- it would just be way toned down.

    Other than that:

    Fast exp is more casual than slow exp.

    Slow unlocks are more casual than fast ones. (But you wouldn't want to make it much slower than 2-3 months if all the content was easy to complete IMO).

    Edit: A lot of the confusion about the casual label is about people claiming they are casual because they don't want to join Faceless...but they still play a ton and have a bunch alts etc.

    This doesn't fly in other activities generally. "I'm a causal baseball player and I play 4 hours a day 6 days a week."
    orionfox likes this.
  14. Tarvas Augur

    It is a viable play style for those that really don't care to be carried anywhere. There a difference between people who are just stupid and those that take what may come their way, but are not overly concerned about it. You are describing a sponge I think who are burdens to anyone they come contact with.
  15. Green_Mage Augur

    Non-competitive might be a more useful term than casual perhaps. A lot of players are non-competitve. A lot are competitive. They don't always mix well.
    orionfox likes this.
  16. Jadefox Augur

    "...viable playstyle..."

    Viable to whom?

    --Curious Jade
  17. Machentoo Augur


    For the millionth time, they CANNOT do this. The servers can not handle unlimited picks. This is not speculation, but proven historical fact.
  18. oldkracow Augur

    I "subscribed and stayed" the longest on servers that had at least good exp modifiers.

    Only server I quit in less than a few days was Coirnav, was just too brutal.
    I'll be back for Mangler through most likely POP or a little past.
  19. Green_Mage Augur

    Well WoW figured it out somehow. Maybe we just got an old busted game on our hands and its not worth playing for the non-obsessed.

    Or maybe they can figure something out. Like instances instead of open world zones.

    All I know is me personally and almost everyone I talk to that doesn't want play EQ anymore -- this is the hold up. We don't want the game to tell us when we can do content*. We want to do it on our own time.

    * raid lock outs are fine...hell, open world lockouts would be fine too.
  20. Numiko Augur

    to paraphrase George Carlin, ever notice anyone who levels slower then you is an idiot casual and everyone who levels faster then you is a maniac hard core?
    Jadefox likes this.

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