Simply raising XP doesn't really help casual players.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Strawberry, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Strawberry Augur

    Acquiring XP has always been the smaller part of the equation.

    The bigger part of the timesink in EQ has always been acquiring gear. The massive timesinks are gear related, namely tradeskills, epics, raids, or simply acquiring enough funds to purchase gear.

    I don't think raising XP actually solves anything, because the largest timesinks are still there. Sure, it gets you to lvl 50 faster, but then you simply hit the same giant timesinks in the game that are related to acquiring gear.

    These timesinks are far less in later expansions, but on Selo and Mangler they are still there. It's slightly better on selo, but then you made that server on an insane 1 month unlock, which simply just will result in casual players falling hopelessly behind, especially when it comes to acquiring gear.

    Neither Selo nor Mangler are casual servers.
  2. PwnQuest Augur

    TLPs are already incredibly easy. How much easier do you want them to be? I'd rather them continue to go the other way making each new TLP closer to classic '99 EQ (and thus, more difficult)
  3. Strawberry Augur

    I don't think timesinks make a game easier or harder, it just makes it more time consuming.

    What early era EQ timesinks do is tend to make the population implode on TLP after the first week.
    Barton and andross77 like this.
  4. Tachyon Augur

    Gear is overrated. Especially in classic. Pick up what you get along the way and group gear up in Velious if you don’t raid. Hollowing Stones has some decent gear as well in Kunark.
    Lakeland likes this.
  5. PwnQuest Augur


    Not talking about timesinks. I'm talking about resist checks (on TLPs you can easily land most of your spells on blues/whites/yellows, resists are rare) and the variety of other mechanics in TLP that are far easier than the game was originally.




    This.
  6. Strawberry Augur

    The content from classic all the way to PoP is for a large part just giant timesinks.

    Challenges in gameplay only really appeared around DoD. You finally end up with rewarding group missions that force you to think as a group, you finally have raids that recuire everyone paying attention like Sendaii.

    Classic -> Omens is content that rewards you for your time. Flat giant zones, were even travel is a timesink.

    DoD+ is content that rewarded you for your ingenuity. It is a very different EQ. At that time you also had very different EQ designers coming in. The team of Brad that relied on just dumping timesinks and giant zones onto players, was replaced with designers who excelled at implementing challenging gameplay mechanics in exciting zones, and rewards were based on that instead of timesinks.
  7. PwnQuest Augur


    You're talking about live EQ / TLP. I am talking about original classic, which has nothing to do with either of these. MMOs in general are time consuming things. Also, your definition of 'casual' player may be different than most - Everquest is not really a game that you can play 20 minutes a day on average.
  8. Absor Developer

    To me a "casual" player doesn't really care is they have all the gear or all the level. Worrying about that stuff is the essential nature of the non-casual.
    Lakeland, Haeldar, Yinla and 13 others like this.
  9. Strawberry Augur

    Well, not the way classic is implemented no. Just running to your camp will take you 20 minutes usually.

    But later on, yes EQ becomes a game that you can play 20 minutes and get rewarded for it.

    -DoN missions are around 20 minutes.
    -DoD missions are around 20 minutes.
    -Monster missions are around 20 minutes.
    -Old Man McKnezie missions are around 20 minutes.

    I had long discussions with developers trying to create some of the missions in beta, and I told then how much time casuals players generally spend in games, that the average player in EQ is no longer a child with tons of free time. Those developers were very different people from Brad and his team who implemented classic. And Brad never changed, he's again creating a game without taking into account that most EQ players lead different lives, but EQ changed when he left, in several aspects for the better.

    I have nothing against classic, but the implementation of classic is simply going to keep resulting in players quitting TLP en masse after the first week.
  10. Geoff Journeyman

    I've never seen a more true statement before! Thank you Absor for understanding the difference between casuals and non-casuals.

    P.S. Please end Truebox
  11. Strawberry Augur

    I think most people in EQ care about gear.

    Gear and attaining a certain power level allows a casual player to form non-optimal groups in the more limited time casual players have available to them. I don't think gear is any less important to a casual player playing 30 minutes a day, than to a player playing 4 hours a day.

    They might not min-max to the same extent, but it still impacts their ability to prosper in the game just as much if not more so. In suboptimal casual groups, gear starts to greatly affect a casual player's ability to survive, while players with high-end gear not only have more optimal group make-ups, their power level in terms of gear, makes them far less vulnerable to suboptimal groups.
    Barton likes this.
  12. PwnQuest Augur


    3 months is too much for classic in TLP. The hardcore players hit the cap in a week or so, then most people who play regularly will hit it in a month, maybe 5-6 weeks if going really slow. That said, these servers start to die post-PoP. You're in the minority if you like Everquest's later expansions, nothing wrong with that, its your opinion, but it is the minority.
  13. Tachyon Augur

    Those of us that replay classic casual like to enjoy the ride. It's like playing Texas Holdem on a Saturday night. A little competition, a lot of a reason to get together with friends and occasionally make new ones. The game is a catalyst, not a goal.
    Lakeland, snailish and ch0rny like this.
  14. PwnQuest Augur


    This.
  15. Strawberry Augur

    I think everyone agrees that TLP suffer from very sudden population drops early on.

    But I don't think everyone agrees when it happens or why.

    Some argue, like you did, that it happens because interest in EQ's content drops post-PoP. I disagree, I think sever populations drop even before PoP, and I think they largely drop due to burnout, which is a consequence of the rather unforgiving and time-consuming nature of classic-PoP.
  16. Ltldogg Augur


    Absor, I'm casual and I do care about levels and gear. It is something to strive for and achieve. I just don't have the time nor want to commit the time to race through content, be the best, have everything and see everything. I do however have a desire to do more than my time allows. So as a casual player, I want the opportunity to see and achieve more with less time. Increasing XP rates, spawn and drop rates, zone instances, etc all help that for me.

    I would ask you and all the Devs to perhaps let go of your personal opinions and bias on what players are and what they want and instead try to really take in more feedback, ask for more feedback (especially with polls and questionnaires) and really try to put yourself in the shoes of different types of players, not just hardcore, which is what EQ Live has catered to since even Classic.

    Cheers,
    Scott
    Tymeless and Barton like this.
  17. Shiba Journeyman

    Unfortunately the Devs cant listen to all of the feedback because 90% of it is incessant whining about everything and anything.
    ch0rny likes this.
  18. Ltldogg Augur


    First off, where are you getting your 90% number from?

    Second off, I'm not asking them to listen to all of the feedback, but to ask for and listen to more. There are ways to filter out non-constructive feedback as too there are ways to ask for focus feedback.
  19. yerm Augur


    So you don't need to have it all and won't get upset if you aren't fully geared up and the best, but you do want to see a lot in as little time as possible and care about advancing yourself. Isn't that quite literally what the Selo server was released to be?
    code-zero likes this.
  20. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Maybe they should make the mobs that drop the best gear spawn way more often than they used to. Like change their respawn timers from 7 days to 3.5 days. And then for TLP servers they could even drop it from 3.5 days to like a 1-2 day spawn window. That would be a good improvement. You know what? They could even create a system where you and your friends can spawn a copy of these mobs on demand once a week, any time that is convenient for you!
    Faydark, Tymeless, Plowwed and 3 others like this.

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