Shroud of Stealth 2/2

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Wandid, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Zekster Journeyman

    When you wrote this, how "high" and mighty did you feel.
    Sober up rouge.

    PvP is a broken product.
    No need to keep raiding/progressing or keeping useless classes on the server if they dont intend on fixing it.

    Im okay with being a pvp/troll guild like retal....I can easily make 6 rouge accounts on blue too and send them red....Can even start a new PvP guild called "Rouges Only"
    Im also okay with them fixing it and to continue about the way we have for the past 17 years...

    Not okay with the blatant no response from the GMs
    -Just want to hear back so we can pick how we will continue.


  2. Lottascatta Journeyman

    All the dialog in this thread is prima facia evidence that the SOS change that came with the EOK expansion has been a net positive for the server. It has re-energized many to PVP again. It has caused guilds to brush off those old brain cells and look for new ways to dominate instead of using the old, worn out tricks of the past. I say, good for DBC. They have put life back into a flat, dying server!

    If you want to do progression unmolested, I can suggest a number of blue servers for you.

    So Dev's, next step is to catch and boot all the hackers! Then Zek really will be back on the road to being a healthy server again.
    Thraine and Bronut like this.
  3. Elite Lorekeeper

    1 tick and Bronut is insta out at 50 percent. One post calling him out for QQing about what his own guild is doing and hes out of forums and on a different acct posting lol.
  4. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

  5. Laxmi New Member

    Lots of people with lots of opinions - the only opinion that matters is the dev team opinion. Wish the devs would spend time on Zek on Friday or Saturday night sometime and watch the pvp/hacks happening and the ratio of rogue to any other class kills. The opinionated morons (mostly rogues) can't convince us that it just so happens that the best pvpers in the game also only play or only have rogues. The imbalance is vast and pretending not to acknowledge it makes you look even dumber than someone defending sos2 imbalance. Retal can cry about sk and mage armies all day but at least you saw it coming - warping sos2 rogues are an unstoppable force by any measure. By the way how many sk's did Retal cycle in pre EoK? This thread is filled to the brim with QQ from both sides - those in support of sos2 (rogues) and those who oppose it (any non rogue owners) and we can all agree there is major pvp imbalance. Nothing has caused more imbalance however than giving an already super OP class the ability to walk among everyone totally invisible, rounding people, hiding, and doing it over and over. If you are defending this - ask yourself if you have a Zek rog? If you do, your opinion is probably bias. If you do not, your probably on a blue server. Anybody with any sense at all would call BS and this is ruining whats left of Zek.
  6. Dramez Journeyman

    I can get behind leaving SOS2 alone and turning on Hack detect like Phin has. However it's not fun to have a rogue kill your group and then camp out on top of you only to log in after you Rez and kill you again. But they didn't need sos2 to do that. Incase you didn't know a website that ends with bugs has a free trial of the naughty program so people don't even need to pay to obtain it.
  7. Zunnoab Augur

    GW2 was designed to not revolve around tanks and healers so that's really not a fair comparison. I assume you mean Final Fantasy MMORPGs. Healers in many FF games tend to be weak until they get Holy in which case they become insane.
  8. Dermel New Member

    This made me laugh out loud. This didn't put life back into the server - the same 5 people are PVPing. There's no new faces, just different toons.

    The people who were playing the OP enchanter last expansion are playing rogues this expansion.
  9. Wandid Journeyman

    [IMG]


    Zek must be located on the dark side?
    Come on Devs......
    Say something, anything.
  10. Zamiam Augur

    dev's need to just lock this thread .. that would be a response :p
  11. Zekster Journeyman

    Gms afraid to reply to Zek?

    Roshen...Whats the deal?
    Why do you HATE zek so much Roshen??
  12. Thraine Augur

    this is the only response most of us ever get to be honest. its exactly how this thread will end no doubt
  13. Wandid Journeyman

  14. Reval Augur

    If you want to be fair to them, they did make instances non pvp for you guys. That's honestly a huge improvement.

    PvP balance is a hard topic. I realize at the moment the class that I play isn't hit as hard by this as others, as I at least have a chance vs their initial strike, if nothing else I may live long enough to hit gyrospire, but for the time I've spent lately on zek, it hasn't come to that so quickly, which is great.

    I think that it's important to realize that what one person says about balance is never going to be a perfect balance. There's always a bit of rock, paper, scissors to it. As difficult as it currently is to deal with SoS2, I don't think making it so that mages can see it and then just /pet attack the rogue in chardok, killing it instantly with the press of a single button from a long distance away, is the best response to it. You're basically asking them to make mages overpowered with no answer in dungeons.In the end, the request still leads towards imbalance. I've seen mage pets kill people faster than a rogue could with virulent talon in the past, so I vote for the player controlled death machine vs the drone that can kill 6 people without getting any npc aggro from 3 floors down. Maybe in pvp if they also made it so that pet classes could only /pet attack someone within a few seconds after they have cast a spell on that person that requires line of sight? Now they have to break their invis to do it, and be legitimately nearby as well, which lowers griefing through pets. If that were the case, it would be a bit better. But no matter what you do with this, you're really going down a bit of a rabbit hole. You guys should find things that both guilds agree with to suggest. That way the devs that put it in at least know that it will be well received in general.

    Your best chance of getting a proposed change through is probably to keep it simple, and make it an agreed upon, well rounded change.

    I think the one thing that everyone can agree on is that no one wants hackers on the server. Keep the game more fun by doing something about people that hack is my vote for how to improve zek. The people that really like the server but think it's ok to use that crap will get the hint when their account stops working, and will just make a new toon and play by the rules. Now it's more fun for the majority of people that don't hack there. Even if you don't do something totally solid, I remember the erm.. other servers had an announcement when their program caught someone doing something that seemed to be .. ermm.. tertiary in party. If it gets announced that some guy does something that's obviously teh haxx, even if you're a bit wrong, at least that's a step in the right direction. More enforcement of any kind would really change it, and if you're scared of losing subscribers, if you hear from a serverwide message that a guy warped 8 times in a row and then he gets a kill, everyone now knows that guy is not legit, and he's gonna lose all credibility, which still achieves the goal that most people have here. Let that laughing stock stick around then for all I care. At that point, everyone knows what that person is.

    That is a solution to a long term problem, so if they implement it, it doesn't just make the server better until the next expansion hits, it makes it better for the life of the server.
    Bronut likes this.
  15. Navin Novellus Journeyman


    Oh nice, it's cute that you "Monitored" Zek for a "long time" on a single day. You want us to look at a number of hours. You think we haven't done that? Hey, we live here every day. Why stop at hours, let me "cherry pick" a number of weeks & months for you.

    This is data on PVP kills by class before & after SOS2 from logs ranging from June 20 - Dec 5th with ~ 60 - 70% up-time. Filtered out lower lvl kills and obvious alt farming.

    [IMG]


    [IMG]

    That's a sharp difference in favor of Rogues. What seems to be "off" here are your anecdotal observations.

    Of course all classes can die, the point is not that rogues will NEVER die now that they have SOS2, it's that this pushes an already strong class over the top in terms of PVP prowess, as evidenced by these numbers.


    Why do you think more rogues are playing? Why do you think you don't see many clerics on the battlefield? Why do you think there ARE basically zero monks on the server? There's a reason for the small sample size of Monk PVP.... If a class is strong, people will play it. If it's not as strong, in most cases they will play another class that is. You guys are talking up Monk PVP quite a lot, so if they're so spectacular when can I expect to see your monk armies to complement that Rogue militia you've got going? When will you be cyclinig in Monks instead of Rogues, SKs or Rangers?


    The point is, the devs added SOS2 with an eye toward PVE, but neglected to also add ways for players to see SOS2. Simple solutions - make existing spells which see SOS1 also see SOS2, or make new spells which will see SOS2.
  16. Reval Augur

    It would have been cool if on top of kills, you also showed deaths by class. I mean if you had say wizards dying in droves and they aren't getting the kills, then that says more to me. Just because a class is good in pvp doesn't mean people will play it, and just because people are all playing a class doesn't mean it's the best in pvp. Also, if there were a way to show skill somehow in the graphs it would be cool, but I know that's impossible. If more skilled players all pick a class, and then that class gets nerfed into the ground, they'll be likely to move on. But I won't try to ask you for some holy grail of statistics, since that's pretty unreasonable. I just wouldn't want the deaths thing to lead to some guy either just being bad or intentionally dying a lot to make it look like wizards are weak, and then the devs boost wizards and he destroys people while killing his next class of the month alt's class over and over.

    To be fair, when I made my beastlord and started raking in the kills, there wasn't already some "amazing beastlord blueprint" to go off of. Anyone that really was great at it could have made a beastlord before that and just wrecked people, but they didn't. They went for what they knew would work. I was going to make a new character, and Fleeting thought a beastlord would be neat, plus we needed paragon for raids, so I went with that. I would venture that for several years before I did that, beastlords were all but completely off of the radar for pvp. If a berserker comes in there and starts mutilating people, or a monk does, you'll suddenly see a lot more of them, but some people won't be the one who makes the path, they just want a blueprint to follow.
  17. Bronut Augur


    If your talking about me, i killed evols rog on my enchanter 2 days ago, im still playing my chanter, witch i also played thru the nerfs,

    Your guild I nstant gates my chanter, hence the rog kills.

    In the last week i killed est 13 wudan rogs, i dont know why they are having so many issues
  18. Roguexx Journeyman

    The simple issue as to why Wudan is having so many issues is because they are clueless as to how to adapt in pvp. Retaliation adapts quickly, hence why Retaliation still destroyed Wudan during Wudan's magician exploitation, and now with SOS2. It's also why Wudan sends in their "rogue army" to try to stop Retaliation from farming, and the Wudan rogues either die or gate and Retaliation continues their farming. Wudan is, and has always been, a one trick pony that tries to find exploits and take advantage of them, without knowing how to actually adapt to pvp situations.
  19. Dermel New Member

    I wasn't. I was referring to people in both guilds.
  20. fransisco Augur

    Well, the new patch notes fix this.
    Any ability that grants see invis(2) now grats see invis(3).