Should there be intended unbeatable raids?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by uberkingkong, Feb 28, 2024.

  1. uberkingkong Augur

    No beta test, its intended beatable so no point in putting it in beta.
    Beta testers have limited play/test time, test the things that are intended and not test unbeatable raids.

    The Sleeper supposed to be unkillable.
    all that time spent on coding and intention for unkillable, it was killed.

    Who designed Cragbeast Queen.
    CBQ Vaniki server, was not killable for the challenge before next levels unlocked.

    Should the designer take notes from the designers who made CBQ?

    Should there be a CBQ 2.0 in 32nd expansion? Just outright unkillable T1 raid.
    Raid that exists but not intended to be beaten, and you can try all you want.

    Has a loot table but, outright known to not suppose to die so try all you want, if you do it good, but expect to lose. lose. lose. 100% lose intention.

    CBQ, Vaniki, not killable too tough for the best of the best EQ raiders, failed, miserably.
    Designed to be too tough, not like Sleeper, which got defeated.

    Maybe just maybe, if you manage to kill the unkillable Cragbeast Queen, the King spawns, its all over. Pandora box opened.
    CBK attack is whopper, and double whopper, and triple whopper. whopper jr.

    Time spent on these bosses?
    Not good?

    What do you say about time spent on sleeper, could've did a lot of other things if they didn't work on sleeper, no point if its intended to be unkillable and wasted all that time working on it.

    Same situation, same reason, of why they choose to do it for sleeper, now use it in this case.
    Super raids, unbeatable, mysterious raids, 32nd expansion sound good? They should do it?
    Same design just modify the stats so its like Vaniki server vs CBQ challenge all over again but on Live.


    31st expansion.
    LS 2.0 of course.
    Door 12, giant zone bunch of stuff and and a hill like in Natimbi and CBQ does the spawn thing and raid event. Everyone can try try try and lose lose lose. Just there to humble all the raiders.
    Why was the sleeper existing? To humble raiders? But Sleeper got humbled instead.
  2. Conq Augur

    You lead some raids Uberkong. I'd bet kronos that those raids will be unbeatable.
    Barraind, Ozon, Cadira and 5 others like this.
  3. fransisco Augur

    whats the point of unbeatable content? Might as well not make it
  4. uberkingkong Augur

    Thinking about in Door 12 too.

    Is a mech guardian, SoF like area too. Could be a huge zone. Like 31st expansion is 3 zones but massive. huge. You play EQ2, think of those zones, antonica huuuuge.

    All it does is run around the zone and punts people. It knows where people are at, it follows people around and punts them.

    So you gotta get good at something punting you while you do your normal routines.

    Those designers back in the days, they were something. Kudos.
    Mysterious factory, mysterys all throughout kunark velious etc.
    creative interaction some giant punting people
    unkillable intended unbeatable boss

    Kudos designers.
  5. Warpeace Augur

  6. Gillette Lorekeeper

    I think this would be an awesome idea but with a few conditions. 1) Put the mob in a regular zone (in an out of the way spot), 2) It's aggressive, 3) Set all of Uberkingkong's character's bind point on top of the mob, 4) Move all his characters to their spawn point, 5) provide a tally somewhere on the number of deaths inflicted and 6) Enjoy. This would likely provide more value than a raid that would rarely get used.

    Seriously though, players are already upset about only getting 8 raids with the expansion this year instead of the normal nine. Spending resources on a raid that would not get used by 99+% of the player base would show really poor decision-making skills on the part of Daybreak management, both in use of limited resources and their ability to listen to the player's concerns.
    Rijacki and Nennius like this.
  7. Disapointed Lorekeeper

    I have been waiting for a botb tower.

    Raid force goes in, starts script, wave 1 pops, kill it, 30s later level 2 pops, and continues until it wipes the raid force. wipe message says grats you beat 37 floors, here is the loot for that (more floors = more loot (1:5 ratio etc)

    essentially, the tower can never be beaten, you either wipe, or hit the 6hr time cap on a dz but there will always be another level... if you can survive/stomach it
  8. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Didnt GoD and underfoot pretty much have unbeatable final raids when they were current?
    alanus likes this.
  9. EagleTalon99 Elder

    If The Sleeper was suppose to be unkillable, then why does it have a loot table?

    The Sleeper was killed faster than Sony anticipated, but Sony didn't have a master plan of what level it should have been beatable either.

    My first toon was on Mith Marr, and I remember I was a lowbie in East Commonlands the day The Sleeper was killed.
  10. theonepercent Augur

    It doesn't.

    It was absolutely intended to be unkillable.
    fransisco likes this.
  11. Eaedyilye More stonehive bixies.

    You certainly are trying to make it where people quit. Unkillable content isn't fun or rewarding. But what the heck, I can take an under-geared toon that's lacking AA's and dominate T-1 zones with my uber merc.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  12. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    GoD yes underfoot im pretty sure is no.

    Raid guilds were raiding on live servers with devs to try and fix the mess that was made of GoD.
  13. Bilderov Augur

    I think there should be unbeatable raids but with a roguelike gamble.

    The longer you hang around in a battle, the more rewards you get. Eventually you will be overwhelmed and get nothing. It’s up to the strength of the raiding guilds to decide how long they stay in the fight before they head out with their loots.

    Better gear, better strategies versus a taking on of higher risk is the balancing act..

    EG. Defend a castle against marauding enemies and get loot ever 100 kills etc. then the wave gets stronger. You choose to fight the next wave or keep the loot and retreat.

    Kill mobs against a timer. Reach a checkpoint to extend the timer..

    Just some quick ideas. Obviously they will be more involved than this.
  14. fransisco Augur

    so like the ring of fire back in luclin? Where you didnt get all the rewards at the end, you got progressively better ones as the waves increased
  15. Knifen Augur

    Was that the in acryila caverns or something like that. I remember one of those being the first time i had a PC just stop working. When all the graphics from all the AE's where rendering. Completly hosed my video card.
  16. alanus Augur

    yes, at least GoD was.

    This is how I heard it: GoD was around the time of everquest 2 and also was supposed to get a level increase. A lot of the devs working on EQ got moved to EQ2, and new devs came in for EQ. What the devs had worked on, tuning-wise, was intended for a level increase. The level increase got cancelled, but the content never got re-tuned.

    GoD was absurdly difficult at first. The first locked zone, KodTaz, trash quaded for 2400. The best geared tanks at the time had 10-11k HP with full buffs. You can probably see how this is a problem. Uqua was next to impossible due to drop rates of stuff you needed in the raid and trash running away at sow speed while being unsnarable.

    It got updated to make the stuff hit less hard (IIRC it was around 1500 for named, 900 for trash) in KodTaz (and I'd assume other zones but I don't remember those). Uqua drop rate was increased a bit. They updated Uqua again and drop rate was increased a lot and stuff became snarable and the adds from deaths became mezzable, which would send the adds away, too. So it made it a lot easier

    However, Tacvi was still a zone of pure destruction. Everything was hard in the zone. Even the trash mob between each named. Everything was killed pre-OOW except Tunat, who was just too difficult for the gear at the time. In fact, Tunat was only killed a few months before OMM in Anguish was (and that was before the mask trick was discovered for OMM; with mask trick Tunat is harder than OMM). I would guess that Tunat got a nerf at some point, too

    ROI was first guild to beat Tunat before OOW on the first progression server.

    I think Cragbeast Queen was also not killed until way after OOW came out but I could be mistaken on that
  17. Agrippa Augur

    I can vaguely remember one of the leading raiding guilds binding a lot of the raid at the Freeport gates to bind zerge a Militia Enforcer in East Freeport. At the time, he was known to rampage well over 100k and I think that had been when the level cap had been 105th. I forget if they beat him or not, but it was a cutting-edge raid attempt for something that they knew full well wouldn't likely drop anything. The same mob was later moloed by a 120th shadowknight with a cleric mercenary. Player power had advanced enough so that he wasn't taking any hits.
  18. fransisco Augur

    yea, it was in Acrylia Caverns. I remember I was in a clan at the time, and we went in knowing we wouldn't beat the whole thing, but wanted to see what we could get out of it.
  19. uberkingkong Augur

    You should be on the norrathian council feedback group or whatever.

    You know those kind of modes, good modes.
    Tower defense.

    Starcraft used map settings a lot of tower defense fun play too. Setting up and then starting and watching all the mobs try and goto the end, gotta stop em all.
    Some game in the 2010s popular time for tower defense games.
    Think tower defense is coming back in popularity too.


    thats an old school term.
    Quake Clan Wars

    I never knew EQ had clans back then. Pretty cool stuff.
  20. Barraind Grumpy Old Bastage

    Tacvi suffered from it being tuned for a level cap raise that just didnt happen, and honestly, the only boss that probably wasnt beatable at the level we got was Kex, because she was the only thing in the zone that could actually 1-round you every melee round.

    Zone was great at the level they tested it around! Kex was still Kex, because she could still 1-round your tanks, it just wasnt essentially a guarantee.