Shocked any business would choose to destroy itself.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Elysha - Ragefire, May 6, 2022.

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  1. Timmyboi Dunning Kruger Award Winner

    Yes please! As long as you put the cookie in my mouth for me. I always prefer a person put a cookie in my mouth after they just finished putting words in it.
    Shenovar and Conjuration like this.
  2. Khat_Nip Meow

    Please do show me where I put words in your mouth when all I did was directly quote you.
  3. Shenovar New Member

    I just really want them to either clarify their statement: "Lastly, we will not publicly list specific names of approved third-party programs and software as we cannot guarantee that those programs will remain approved in the future."

    This is directly from the most recent post about what constitutes as cheating.

    So they are saying that they have a list of what they allow right now but may ban you for in the future. I uninstalled the input broadcasting software after I read that just to not risk my accounts. I only sub one account now because Alt+Tab isn't a great way to box. Would be nice to know what DBG meant by that last part.
  4. MacDubh TABLES!!!

    This argument isn't going my way, quick point out the age of the forum account! Lol

    Don't forget people, these forums are more of a ghost town than EQ servers. Without a few new accounts you only have the 20 usual suspect who frequent veterans lounge.
  5. Khat_Nip Meow

    No, they're NOT saying 'they have a list'. This is reading comprehension 101.
    What they ARE saying is they don't want to outright name any specific programs because they're unable to vet them and ensure they will always work 'innocently'. It's also not their job nor should it be.
    Why is it so difficult for some people to play the game as it was intended?
    /Personally if I knew someone IRL that ran cheat software in a game then I would consider that person untrustworthy in all other facets of my life, too.
  6. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    It seems like the new owners cares more about fairplay than the old owners did.

    Generally speaking, that is a good thing for a gaming company. :)
    I have heard of games that failed badly because of excessive cheating, but I have never heard of a game that failed for being hard on cheating.
    Stymie and Ariana like this.
  7. Manafasto Augur

    I understand why people box, a group game where there is no groups. It is time they be honest about what can be used software wise. It might be helpful to merge some servers so these low pop server folks can find groups as well. I found this thread an interesting read, please keep it going.
    Ariana likes this.
  8. OlavSkullcrusher Augur

    At this point, I've pretty much decided to step away from EQ indefinitely, with no expectation of returning. But I occasionally check the forums still to see what is going on, and this debate is a big part of why I looked elsewhere for my entertainment. Thus, why I will give my 2 cents.

    What Skuz said really sums up the issue. If you need 3rd party software that is, at best, borderline in whether it fits with the game's EULA, in order to enjoy playing EQ, then EQ is not a good game anymore. If actual cheating and definite violations of the EULA are part of why you enjoy EQ, then you are definitely not going to be making anything but a negative impact on the ability of others to enjoy EQ.

    If Daybreak/Darkpaw reduces cheating/bots/etc., that should improve the play experience of the majority of players that don't want to cheat at a video game. I would understand concerns that efforts to reduce cheating and bots might sweep up people not violating the rules and/or that such efforts might infringe upon privacy, but that is about implementation, not the validity of the goal.

    In the end, I also feel it doesn't speak well for the health of EQ as a viable MMO if there really are that many players that feel that boxing (within the rules) is the only way that they could enjoy playing the game. I didn't box when I started playing EQ in 1999, nor did I box for the years I played back then. I only started boxing once my group of friends dwindled, especially when I came back full time around 2016, after mostly playing EQ2 and other types of games for a long while.

    That EQ was never a truly solo player game is fine. When the game population was high enough, that wasn't a problem. The issue, as I see it, is that the original model of having the players divided up between different servers is what is not really viable any more. In terms of the back end hardware and software, I don't know if that is something that could be rebuilt, but it does inherently fracture the playerbase more than what can work well given how many different things there are to do in the game.
    Skuz and Ariana like this.
  9. MacDubh TABLES!!!

    Why is it difficult to play the game as intended? Time and life situation is the main reason.

    This game was never meant to be a solo endeavor which was the magic of EQ back in the day. Before social media, this was a way to connect online, build friendships and work together to reach goals. The game is still essentially this, the main difference is the player base is mostly the same old timers that started back in 1999 as I understand it (at least personally that is my situation).

    In the old days I could sit at the computer hours a day, investing in online relationships, sitting in camps for hours on end day after day to xp, camp drops, etc.

    Now, I get about 4 hours 1 night a week where I can play, and there is always a good chance one of the kids will wake up and need me to take them to the bathroom or whatever. My 4 hours 1 night a week gets interrupted or canceled all the time.

    I tried playing 1 account, got so far and hit a wall. I tried manually boxing 2 accounts and got a bit farther, hit another wall.

    Even without any of these constraints there is lots of older content that is very difficult to find assistance for if you want to see all the game has to offer. (I did TBL progression and didn't see another soul in any zones or anyone LFG for TBL progression as an example).

    I can fully appreciate the impact of third party programs on the state of the game, but labelling every player who makes use of said programs some sort of cancer on the state of the game is a bit much. I have heard many stories similar to my situation and I think it is a pretty common thing.

    Sure there is people who are running armies and afk farming, PLing etc who are a huge issue, and I think that is a problem that needs addressing. It would just be nice if there was an outlet where someone like myself who just wants to enjoy a bit of nostalgia a few hours a week and mind my own business.

    I would LOVE a server that was 3rd party only, make KR server locked etc. Then I could help out others in need rather than fear of being reported for doing something nice. Then they could take a hardliners stance on 3rd party on other servers and clean it up for the players who want the classic group oriented friendship building EQ experience.
    I_Love_My_Bandwidth and Ariana like this.
  10. Veteran_BetaTester PIZZA!


    "New Member" ( 'main' is suspended ) knew the rules, you were once us and stepped over the line.

    Have a nice day.
    Too many threads '' it's not fair ''.

    Mic drop.

    PS, change you're name...
    Hugs Ely the UBER Bard!

    Close the thread. You don't deserve 11 pages of feedback.

    In the future, any discussion about illegal program playing should have the thread closed asap.
    Support the GM's... not backlash on what good work GM's have done on the pressure of playes following rules.
  11. Cicelee Augur

    I am curious...

    Do you think these types of players want to understand and respect the rules of the game?

    See, I think these types of players don't care about respecting the game and would rather do whatever they can to circumvent aspects of the game to give them an advantage over those who do respect the game. And for all I care, those people can get banned and go to a different game.
    Benito likes this.
  12. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I think a few of them actually want to, but have just gotten (really!)bad advice.
    Even if it is just a few of them, they still deserve a chance.

    I actually can understand some of the players being confused about the mixed signals from DBG. For example Holly's "musings" about allowing cheat software on a new server right before announcing Rizlona. And everyone being convinced that rules are "not enforced", while DBG is being waaay too quiet about it for years. Then its not hard to see were the confusion is coming from.

    Personally, I think this whole mess is partly Holly's fault. :(

    I also think they should have posted BEFORE the first suspension-wave and given players a few weeks to adjust to the changes. Surprising people like that, is just needless drama...

    Im happy that they are finally enforcing the rules now, but it could have gone a lot smoother.
  13. Stymie Pendragon

    So the deal on the table is that if your 11 accounts, that were caught cheating, are unbanned you will pay for an additional 39+ ($585+ a month) accounts in exchange? Am I reading that correctly?
  14. Ariana Augur

    Of course they have a list. Otherwise how would they have any way to differentiate between cheat software and supposedly allowed broadcasting software? How would their scanning and monitoring be able to determine what to flag for cheating? They scan processes looking for software names, not functionality.

    I don't see many people in this thread actually advocating for cheating software, what I see more of is asking for clarity surrounding what constitutes as cheating. Getting rid of cheating isn't in question. It's good for the game, and the decision isn't being influenced by any forum discussion.

    I think people are concerned that if they do make a clear ruling on broadcasting software they will go the route that many other companies have gone and determine that it gives a person or less people the opportunity to monopolize a zone or area, giving them an unfair advantage, and therefore ban it. That's the only argument against clarifying the rules that makes any sense.
  15. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Good post.

    As far as boxing goes part of the problem with EQ is that of "past experience".

    If you played on any server, live or TLP, you will at some point end up wasting hours of your time trying to form up groups or in joining one that is going to be tackling something you need/want for your character.

    The only people who do not waste hours LFM/LFG are those with established, sometimes long-standing cliques.

    Much of the boxing that exists on TLP is actually anticipatory, they expect the group availability situation to become untenable based on prior experience of that happening and so they are pre-empting it by boxing to have independence from EQ's unreliable group dynamic.

    Essentially I feel like a desire to box is simply predicated on a desire to play the game in light of the knowledge that inevitably groups will become scarce and that if they do not hedge their bets gainst that they will be left at a disadvantage.

    I don't think they are wrong.
    Ariana likes this.
  16. Triconix Augur

    11 pages to explain one simple concept:

    Don't cheat and you won't get banned.
    yepmetoo, Yinla, Cicelee and 2 others like this.
  17. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    I've reported dozens of cheaters. I video capture the cheaters, post it to Youtube as a private link, then link that video in my petition citing the details of the suspects' actions and why I think they're cheating. In nearly every instance, the cheaters are offline the next day and some haven't been back in months.

    Your argument about the Krono market is a non-starter because some ONE is buying the krono and using them as currency. The power leveling groups have been a fixture in Norrath for at least 20 years - again, non-starter. And fixing mercenaries ... how do they need fixed? They are, by design, bad in play. Mercs are bad. And that's good. They will never be good and that's not bad.:)
    Nennius likes this.
  18. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    This is the heart of the argument. I box because it's the only way I can enjoy the game without significantly impacting my group. I need frequent and unpredictable AFKs. I absolutely refuse to be 'that person' who rides the coattails of my group - benefitting from their effort while I tend to my IRL responsibilities. It's not fair to them.

    So I box. I use eye ess boxer. Have used it for a decade. I have conversed with GMs while boxing. As far as I am concerned I am following the rules. Is boxing like this an unfair advantage? No way. I pay for six accounts, six expansions, and put the work in every time I play to take on new content, new missions, and adjust the play across a dozen different classes. I also refuse to use Mercs. They're terrible and I consider them to be a waste of a good group spot.

    I digress. With so many varying views on what should and should not comprise EverQuest's player experience, I am thankful we all still have the opportunity to play.
    Notanewperson likes this.
  19. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Yinla and Benito like this.
  20. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Automation does not equal boxing.

    Why do the cheaters keep going back to that (conflation)? Lol.
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