Shocked any business would choose to destroy itself.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Elysha - Ragefire, May 6, 2022.

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  1. Elysha - Ragefire New Member

    I have been playing EQ off and on since it started. I had periodically over the years had problems finding a consistent group of people to play with to allow me to progress...and as such, I would leave the game until it sucked me back in to restart sometimes years later.
    I have been playing full time the last 5 years and have built a fairly large group of accounts on ragefire. The game has never been more fun for me. The 3rd party software that is causing suspensions on our server has increased my enjoyment to the point where I happily pay monthly fees for many accounts. I have never AFK camped anything, I have always helped others progress to strengthen our guild and progression on our server. The game is designed to be played a s group but getting a group when you have time to play is near impossible to achieve long term....
    We have already seen many people chose to cancel their accounts on our server to the point where we struggle to get raid forces to progress. The only way I will ever play this game is the way I have been playing and many others feel the exact same way. These are not people who exploit or afk camp...these are people who simply want to enjoy the game whenever they log in. The continued suspensions WILL end our server, they WILL likely destroy the game all you forum warriors are trying to protect in your selfish way. One multi boxer leaving = 6 to 24 accounts gone. You 20 forum warriors aren't worth what a single boxer brings to the game financially to keep it going.
    My solution...Police the disruptive who hurt others vigorously...and leave the rest alone and lets keep this great game rolling for everyone to enjoy in whatever manner they choose!
    Gheed, yukan, Leerah and 4 others like this.
  2. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    People cheat for one reason, to gain an unfair advantage.

    Less cheaters is good for the game, no matter the mistaken belief that cracking down on cheaters will kill EQ.

    Because if successfully tackling cheaters were to kill EQ then EQ did not deserve to exist anyway. but it will not, cheaters are not the majority.
    sauron3030, Arkanny and Bigstomp like this.
  3. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Policing the servers is probably more expensive for DBG than taking the subscription hit.

    DBG has concluded that the game is better off financially, with stricter rules...
    My guess is that those who use non-approved thirdparty software is actually a small minority, compared to those who respect and approve the rules.

    Maybe you should try to box without breaking the rules, it seems to work for others...
    sauron3030 likes this.
  4. Slasher Augur

    Totally agree but i wonder what % of revenue they generate for EQ.
  5. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Often when they launch a new TLP, there is a big majority of newbies who complain on the forums about excessive automation and boxing. I guess DBG has decided that they are worth listening to.
    Who knows, maybe they will stick around next time, rather than fade away to other games with less cheating.
  6. MacDubh TABLES!!!

    Can we just convert a server or two as third party friendly and offer one time free transfer on or off 1 character per account. People can argue on the % of users that use third party software to assist playing this game but you cannot deny that there is a large subset of the user base that does play this way and has for many years without any threat of suspension/banning as long as they play nice.

    Honestly forget the forum throwing stones, from a pure financial standpoint what is the downside to allowing a server or two as needed for people who want to use third party programs. The argument I've seen is it will allow people to further develop their methods. Let me tell you something, this stuff is 20+ years old, it is developed.
  7. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    If there was enough cheaters to facilitate an entire server, then Im sure DBG would launch such a server. As you say, it would make sense.

    They haven't launched such a server yet...Maybe the demand isn't as big as we think it is...
  8. Cicelee Augur

    I was not going to make any comments on any of the 187,643 threads that have and will be started on this topic over the weekend, but this statement caused me to do so:

    The absolute irony of this statement is beyond hilarious. People who cheat using automation and third party software/hardware are the very definition of selfish- they keep everything to themselves, they never do anything for anyone unless there is profit for them, all they care about is themselves, they want nothing to do with anyone, everything about cheaters is "me me me" and "I want this, I want that".

    That is the epitome of being selfish.
    Skuz, I_Love_My_Bandwidth and Sancus like this.
  9. Velisaris_MS Augur

    On Live servers, probably not that much actually.

    The botters/cheaters that stick to Live servers will sub their main toon, and maybe one or two others. But the vast majority of their "army" will remain FTP. They'll powerlevel them up as high as they can (depending on whether or not they bought expansions for those toons), use a krono to sub them for a month, max out their AA as much as they can, then let them go FTP again. They'll repeat this whenever they think they need the level/AA boost for their bots.

    The cheaters are not a steady revenue stream for Daybreak on Live servers, which is why they have no problem dropping ban hammers from time to time on certain servers. It really doesn't eat into their profits.
  10. MacDubh TABLES!!!

    These forums are great for sweeping generalizations of a subset of players and speculation on the low revenue that comes from said players.

    Seriously, have any of you ever been on the forums and discord associated with this stuff? It is more active and far less toxic than here.
  11. Zanarnar Augur

    If they let people cheat how every they want, the game will be destroyed. They have to enforce the rules they have decided on.

    Server pop is dead? Well that server needs a merge, not carte blanche permissions to cheat/break the server rules. The core issue here is their extremely slow reactions to merging servers that need to be. Only doing it once per year is problematic, as a server might be ok in the summer but 6 months later, nearly dead.

    So basically, your crying about the wrong thing here, you need to be asking them to merge you into a more populated server, not let everyone break the rules as much as they want without consequence.

    ORRRR go multi-box on live where they allow it. I swear the entitlement in these posts is astounding.

    (and yes losing players is bad for business; but I don't know to many business that welcome thieves who steal from them at every visit, just because they always buy something while they're there too. Its a bad analogy but I'm sleepy and my back hurts like . So its the best your getting)

    Also, you might want to lay off all the insults to forum posters; its really not helping your case in any way. Just makes you sound like a petulant child.
    Hobitses, Ozon, Thancra and 2 others like this.
  12. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    or you could move to Bristlebane server with a high population and find consistent groups even at level 1.

    Ragefire is full of botters because it's lower population. I played there until Underfoot wiped the 2 remaining raid guilds. At that time it was evident that there wasn't a real sustainable population there without botters.
  13. Thancra Loladin

    You're like a drug dealer explaining that since you're bringing some momentarily happiness to people, you're actually someone usefull to the community. No matter how you spin it, cheating is cheating and the game is better off without it (and you included if that's the only thing keeping you on this game).
    Annastasya, Raccoo, yepmetoo and 3 others like this.
  14. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    Oh and @ your clickbait title-

    You should check out the title World of Tanks, put out by Wargaming and see news about update 6.0, the one where they completely removed the original game and replaced it with a crap chinese knockoff because they lost rights to their engine. One day they're selling crew vouchers to boost crews, a day later, removed all crews and rerolled a new system. Took people's cash for YEARS and just stole it all. This month sees Wargaming closing it's game forum entirely to stifle dissent.


    Ever hear of EA?
  15. Ariana Augur

    Are people under the impression that Daybreak doesn't already know exactly how many accounts use third party software and have already decided that that's an acceptable loss?

    They have every right to suspend and ban for violating EULA/ToS. If they choose to suspend they need to make sure that they are offering the real opportunity for players to correct their behavior. If second suspensions or bans are actually happening after people have stopped using software that's a problem.

    As a software developer I find the software interesting and very impressive. I've used it in the past. I can also recognize that the environment has changed and its use is no longer tacitly accepted.

    If you want a constructive discussion encourage Daybreak to fix the real issues with the game that drive people to automation in the first place. Define those issues concretely and offer solutions.

    Automation is dead guys, as it realistically should be. No game allows for this, why should EQ?

    If you want a game that's all about automation and writing scripts to accomplish goals, check out Screeps. It's a lot of fun, but you have to actually write the scripts yourself, and everyone is automating so on a level playing field.
    Conjuration and Joules_Bianchi like this.
  16. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    These are devs who simultaneously nerf mob kill xp and announce sales of level 100 mercs and XP pots, but add Defiant Gear etc as "catch up" mechanics.

    The seeming contradictions are endless, like they want us to level up and buy the next expansion, but then keep kiting barriers to entry AND pay to win solutions the this self created "problem"
  17. Tappin Augur

    Sigh... you are describing everyone who boxes. There’s little no reason to sub (long term) on a box that isn’t a alt. So is everyone that uses a box a cheater?
  18. Shenovar New Member

    These forums are so toxic, people are unable to look at things from a larger perspective. Yes it's against the terms of service and yes let's stop the massive groups of automation. I never see it happen, Im on Bristlebane and I had had friends get a suspension from using [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] while the player "Sellers" is always returning and has 80+ FTP accounts selling power leveling all day. To clarify for the "White Knights" or whatever that means [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] let's you view your other accounts on one screen. No automation, only used to avoid having to Alt+Tab back and forth. So why are the AE plat farmers and power leveling groups that are causing the server latency issues from the amount of spell effects never eliminated? I got scared and uninstalled [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] and removed the subscription on my five alt accounts. Unless I buy five monitors or frantically Alt-Tab it makes it impossible to use them anymore. To repeat I am not justifying or saying any 3rd party is allowed but WHY DON'T THEY ACTUALLY TARGET THE ISSUE.. How about we target the companies selling platinum, accounts, kronos and power leveling rather than the almost non-existent player base? There is a website that sells this, people make a living from day trading Krono, let's just make it a NFT while we're at it. I would legit pay $9.99/month for a mercenary that ACTUALLY functioned I could possibly do something in the game without having to box an alt account.
  19. Knotty Pines riz New Member

    my take on it is this they sell Krono to players from db store, they see the sales, they don't see who uses them to make them wanted by others when those box crews stop playing there will be a glut of Krono, Krono market crashes because not as many folks boxing, folks don't see Krono as a good deal anymore then maybe they will see the connection
  20. Notanewperson New Member

    You sound like one of those people that smashes out an expansion in the first week it drops then only logs in for raids. Probably stick to the 6-12 clique of people in your fellowship and refuse to help out anyone else. You sit there and cry about "cheaters" but it's people like you that contribute to the problem of people having to use software to play because there is a lack of groups or people willing to group.
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