Discussion in 'Priests' started by Nnewg Kahnzerson, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Flowst New Member

    I went back and read through all 4 pages of the thread. I see frequent mentions about how Shaman are priest class and shouldn't have high DPS....the year 2000 wants that tired argument back.
    Cleric, Druid and Shaman are all priest class. That is a label. Who has the fast and powerful heals? Cleric. Why not Druid and Shaman? Trade off for other abilities. Who gets to wear plate, leather, chain? Do I need to go on?
    Cannibalize is a nice AA/spell, but hardly efficient. That is a big chunk of health, for some instant mana. Can't be done in every fight, certainly not while soloing.
    Our heals are less powerful, cost more mana, take longer to cast. The trade off was we could DPS.
    They reduced our DPS, but gave us nothing back. Hardly motivating.
  2. Flowst New Member

    Read through the individual spell changes, thank you for that post Taldiwen.
    If they want shaman DoT DPS to be lower, and the recast time or spell duration remains the same, why is the high mana cost still the same?
  3. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    Shamans and druids both are adequate healers. and shamans do have fast and powerful heals, the reckless line is $. not to mention the splash and gift combination.

    I canni while soloing all the time. not every fight though, you're right there.

    we can still DPS, just not better than pure dps classes. you're being greedy.
  4. Ghubuk Augur

    Lowering the mana cost to something reasonable would go a long way to making people live with this. I get it that if you are raid geared, mana is a lot less of an issue but for a group geared shammy, the over the top mana costs are a very limiting factor.
    Absolutely no reason that the damage reduction took place while leaving the mana costs the same.
  5. Whulfgar Augur

    Then my mission as soon as i get off tower.. Ill be shaman dot killing sarnaks in OT.. And seeing first hamd whats what .
  6. grusuum New Member

    I keep reading these post and all I can think is ... wow most of the people whining here have no real idea of how to even play a shaman or even understand what priest class even is .. we should not be top dps over dps classes .. we are a healer and played well we can be a great healer and we can be the only healer that never runs out of mana.. we are a support class healer .. we can main heal to if needed .. but we are support we make everyone better .. if you want to dps like a dps class then there are many to choose from or if you want to tank like a tank then choose from the tank list and if you want to main heal then make a cleric .. every class cant do everything the best ... so pick what you want to do and play the class that can do that
    fortuneteller likes this.
  7. fortuneteller Augur

    A shaman that is realist.
  8. Venedar Lorekeeper

    I would say a majority of thoose shamans that are so called, "realist" or think this is "great/good"! Is not real playing shamans. It's people that focus more on how to nerf other classes then focus on their own. Mostly they are boxing their shamans so the nerf doesnt mind or affect them in anyway.

    I also think some people can't do the dmg they are suppose to do and feel loosy, instead of raising their own dps they kick on someone who does more then them. I play shaman since 2001, I play everyday and I raid 2-5 timer per week. I would call me a playing main shaman.

    First of all I want to say, I would rather see necro as the top DoT class as they are suppose to be. But shamans should'nt be far after. If necro had less and stronger DoTs, lets say 6-8 DoTs that was better then shm this problem would been solved naturally. Shm and druid could jump in and DoT when their healing is less needed and lack of necro. This would make raids easier to customize according to conditions.

    But back to the nerf. I will say the same thing ive said before.

    It feels like a totally rip off for the shaman class. First they gave us the DoT revamp because it was needed (majority of us didnt use the DoT at all before that). After two months they analyze, adjust and nerf(it was needed). Everything is fine we play with our DoTs we can burn in grp game and contribute to the guild dps when needed. Then Beta for RoS is launched and our DoTs is further increased! Yey fun we can do even more dmg!

    After 2 months they decide out of NOWHERE to massively nerf us, to what I consider is back to the state of DoTs not beeing used anymore. That's not playing nice, thats like liyng.

    Why did they increase our DoTs in RoS expansion?

    This could been handled in many diffrent ways. Here is a few examples what could have been done.
    1. Not increase dots in RoS expansion
    2. Give some sort raid limits on our pre-nerfed DoTs
    3. Raise dmg on our fast DoTs while cut down on other pre-nerfed DoTs (make us help in fast killing grps)
    4. Cut down 20-40% of dmg of our pre-nerfed DoTs
    5. Make our disease dots no stackable on our pre-nerfed DoTs

    The 50% nerf was way to big. I know classes in game I consider OP in some ways. But I would never go out and whine about thoose classes should have a nerf. And there is classes in need of a boost like bards and necros. Tbh I wouldnt mind see cleric class get a ability to do a dps burn as well.
  9. Flowst New Member

    I would have thought the expensive increase to the cost of mana per spell was enough of a limit. Did they consider increasing the recast time instead? The reduction in damage frequently is more than 50%. Look at Jinx alone. So its all the punishment and none of the reward. Ugh, not fun folks.
    Analyzing some of the posts above, a few say we are a priest class. If I wanted to be a healer, I would play a cleric.... and do, on a separate account. More than enough Merc clerics out there anyhow. The draw to (and fun of) playing my shaman was the utility. Able to do much, not great at any particular thing.
    Maybe you guys have raid gear and 30k AA's and it doesn't phase you. But this big of a hit has a dramatic impact on my playability.

    Reminiscent of the Sting of the queen DD nerf ages ago. I don't even want to play these days. Haven't logged on since I DPS tested the change.

    Maybe I am only 1 person, but I vote with my wallet. Daybreak....most people are free to play. I am a 6 account annual subscriber with full expansions on each. Did you really think about guys like me when you did this? I love EQ but you reaally pulled the rug out from under me here.
  10. grusuum New Member

    ok now you want cleric shaman and druid to burn on raids .. who is going to heal the tank ???.. i agree that shamans should have their dots do good dmg .. but them outDPSing DPS classes and topping the pars over DPS oh raids ... im not saying out DPSing lazy people on raids .. im talking about the good DPS doing their jobs the best of their class as a DPS and shamans doing more .. that should not be .. now i do agree that with the lowering of the dot dmg that the spell cost should be lowered .. but if you think that shamans should be anywhere near top DPS then you are not playing a priest class .. just because you played a long time does not mean your good
  11. grusuum New Member

    you are posting in the priest forum .. as a shaman you are a priest class .. yes you can do other things but as you yourself just said not the best at it .. topping pars means your the best at it and my shaman is in group gear and the mana cost of these spells didnt mean a thing with casting on a few mobs then canning back up and healing in no time
  12. Venedar Lorekeeper

    Heya mr, Ano New Member. Maybe you should re-read what I post. I never wrote that a shaman or a druid should top parse or even dps at a raid(I said they could have a option to do dps if needed and if it's wanted). And I never claimed that im beeing good, because I think im the best;)

    However I did claim im playing a shaman as a main in both grp and raid game, and ive done that for a long time.

    And to let cleric have a possibility to burn does'nt mean they should dps on a raid or stop heal, neither beeing top of a raid parse. I said they should have have a possibility to burn. A random example could be: a 150k dps sustained for 1.30-2mins nuking boosted with some sort of AA that has 15min downtime. Because a paladin can heal does'nt mean he should stop tanking and healing. One thing doesnt always exclude something else, sometimes you can try keep two thoughts at the same time in your head, it does work I promise.

    Somehow it did work to have shm dps through whole EoK expansion. And honestly even with pre-nerfed dots shm didnt do much dps in a grp, mob went splat before 2-3 dots where on. Yeah sure a shm could parse high on a raid mob where meele and caster dps killing adds or whatever. That doesnt mean other classes beeing usless.

    You have not read what I posted, you just cherry picked what you wanted and made random assumptions about it.
  13. Ninelder Augur

    If your shaman or druids were topping parses it means that your DPS players have no skill, no gear and no luck. They are gentlemen of three outs, masquerading as DPS when there is no substance other than their class name to dub them as DPS.

    If you are a DPS class routinely getting beaten by non-DPS on parses, your complaints tell us more about you and your skill/gear/playstyle than the balance in the game.
  14. Jetslam Augur

    Depending on the event, topping a parse was pretty trivial as a shaman. Events like Cactus and T2.1 where it's very little group healing required, one boss standing there, with adds to toss dots on as well are perfect for DPS.

    My best on cactus was 330k dps over an 8-9m event. My best on T2.1 was 515k over 5m. Both of these are with me being in a melee group with no group deaths. I have a hard time believing anyone but the most elite players under perfect conditions would be able to throw out those numbers on those two events specifically.

    Gorowyn and T2.2 don't have enough ramp up time and I don't dps much on those. Skyfire has the potential, but I'm one of our guild's shield clickers and also prioritize healing over dps on that event due to the massive aoes. T2.3 has potential to be decent, but I've had to prioritize spamming heals on that event over DPS the last few times we won.

    Don't make it seem like everyone else was just bad allowing shaman/dru to top parses. We were broken and our dps total is back to where it is decent in the raid game.

    As for grouping, there are still issues with both mana cost, as well as burst damage (20-30s kills) that shaman have to deal with that need looked at.

    Of the classes that have had dots combined, only shm rely on them for 90%+ of their damage. On those two parses I mentioned previouosly, my damage breakdown was generally 90-93% dot damage, 5% DD (procs) damage, and the rest melee damage.

    This is going to be the same ratio generally for necro. They're going to have to do something pretty creative to not break them entirely when it comes time to do their revamp, and probably why it's taken so long.

    If their goal is to have necro be at X dps, then that means they have to figure out a way to tune however many dot lines they end up with to do that amount. For example sake, lets say they drop necro to 10 dot lines. That means they have to do X/10 dps per dot theoretically. The problem with that is that a single dot, or even 2-3 dots in the group game that can be cast in a 20s fight are going to do hardly any damage. The solution to that is to have a couple dots do the majority of the damage and then the rest be supplemental that can add to raid dps, but wouldn't be worthwhile using in groups.

    That's how shaman were setup. We had Jinx/Curse that were our top damage dots, and they both got nerfed 50+% so now their base damage is in line with the rest of the dots. As a result, we're left with a bunch of mediocre dots that don't do much damage each while still having a mana cost that is super high. These compound meaning to do decent damage we have to stack more dots and as a result use a ton of mana in the process. If you try and just do the normal swift+1 dot like I was doing previously, you're lucky to do 40-50k on a 30s fight. That's terrible at 110.
  15. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    you sir, seem to have no clue what druids could do pre-nerf..... a DPS druid could put up 300k+ on any sustained parse. a shaman could put up similar numbers (as jetslam described above). My personal best on cactus was 359kdps sustained over the event.
  16. Ninelder Augur

    Well I never saw a shaman do that on any of our raids or pick up raids. There were times one might make parse. Maybe your shaman are better than ours, or maybe our DPS are better than yours. The fact remains that there aren't enough shaman mains out there that DBG can afford to casually kill them off.
  17. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    there's a pretty extensive discussion of our DPS potential on the 'extra spell gem' thread in the priest forum here. several examples of shamans hitting pretty damn high numbers.
    Brohg likes this.
  18. Brohg Augur

    10 is too many, imo. Unless you count the Swift dots? Those are fighting-er sorts of spells, more immediate and spam & weave constantly style casting.

    The shm/dru model was pretty spot on, Dru especially. Put on half a dozen dots, one real beefy at ~30s total duration after extensions, four or so at 1-1.5mins, one long dot. Do your actual fighting with the other seven spell gems while those dots run.

    Honestly necros aren't too far off if the numbers were made to work, but sorting out what to do with all the redundant dot lines necros have accumulated over the years is an issue. I'm a savage, I'd just delete them. But I'm just a keyboard warrior atm, not a dev that would have to deal with myopic legacy play fetishists.
  19. Flowst New Member

    Maybe this nerf doesn’t impact your character or bother you personally. It absolutely impacts me. I love this game and appreciate the fact it is being kept afloat after so many years. The recent expansions, while appreciated, aren’t exactly deep or trailblazing.
    It is very noticeable that online attendance is down, and around me I see mostly free to play players.

    This DoT change is like using a chainsaw to cut a wedding cake. I keep reading this forum in hopes of seeing any acknowledgement that is too much and will be fixed.
    Can they at least reduce the mana to something reasonable? Maybe only reduce DPS if multiples of the same line are cast? Increase the recast time between casts?

    Imagine any product in the stores keeping the same cost but being 50-60% reduced in size. Wouldn’t exactly fly off the shelf.
  20. Jetslam Augur

    I think 7-8 regular and 2-3 swift would work well. I haven't raided on my necro in awhile, but what other spells are they memming nowadays besides dots? I guess alliance/impose nuke/tap? With shm, we have 7 dots, which left 6 gems for our heals/adps. Necro don't have those other roles in raid though and are just dps.

    I'd prefer if they did the swifts like shm where it's basically a duplicate of a regular dot's damage with less mana cost/duration that doesn't stack with the regular dot.

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