Shaman woes

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Ryanxp, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Brohg Augur

    I'm saying that the experience you've founded your opinion on is flawed. Your judgement in this or any other matter may be superb, but you've come to a wrong conclusion and assigning an undeserved value to your limited exposure is, prima facie, at fault.

    Before mercs, when a healer was required, I actually played a shaman and was taken enthusiastically in that role. The only thing that's changed is improved tools populizing the capability. More of the population know that more shaman know more about having great healing.
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  2. gotwar Augur

    I may be forgetting a few things out, but:

    Pros:

    - Raid essential melee ADPS. Shamans are what make the melee DPS world go 'round.
    - One of the most desired melee buff sets in the game
    - Best heals over time, second only to Clerics in single target healing, best new Alliance priest spell in EOK (and it rocks)
    - Best slow in the game, fast cast time, and AE slow
    - Malo. OMG, the Malo!
    - A wolf pet that somehow, despite the odds, is a functioning tank
    - Awesome ghetto CC
    - An unlimited pool of mana, regardless of gear
    - Inconspicuous Totem might be the best "fade" in any game, ever. It's super inconspicuous
    - Always rolls with an entourage of supermodels, no matter which guild you join

    Cons:

    - Garbage dps. Lower than Clerics in some situations
    - All that hawt supermodel action can tire you out

    Yeah, nothing to see here. Shamans are complete POS.
    IblisTheMage and Sindaiann like this.
  3. Sindaiann Augur

    Properly played shaman are extremely powerful. If you raid end game content and don't roll 3+ shaman for the melee groups, no idea what you are doing (obviously speaking of ideal raid group makeup) lol
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  4. shruggz Lorekeeper

    and again were back to properly played meaning that you sit back heal others and let them kill mobs for you.

    and why is everything about raid tunes. some of us don't, would in fact bet the majority don't.

    and by extremely powerful you mean when surrounded by all your raid geared friends, I guess I couldn't dispute that. I'm sure my shaman would have no problems at all healing a raid geared tank, but try in group gear with a tank merc in a pick up group, or an under geared/augd/aa'd mt or group focused mage pet and see how powerful you feel.

    I'm not looking for a lot more for shaman, for the most part we are in very good shape. but being brought up to at least the same level dps wise of the other priest classes would be a step in the right direction. I would I think be satisfied with that.

    my shaman coming into eok, 16k plus aa, in mostly tbm group, and tds3 odds and ends, now 18k plus aa and 1pc short full eok t1 visibles 1 pc of nonvisible,

    it may well be in another 3-6k aa and rounding out my gear into all t1 eok or better will have me feeling the same way that some of you do. that shaman need ask for nothing because were all golden, but for the moment I'm thinking a boost in dps is not out of line, I'm not looking to be a dps class, nor do I think we should be even able to compete with a dps class but we should have the means to take down a trash mob if the need arises. and if your not in raid gear surrounded by raid geared friends the need does arise.

    and I want to make this clear, If you want to raid great. you've earned the gear, some of us cant commit like that, and I'm not saying we should have the same perks that you that have made that commitment do I'm just saying that the picture looks a little different for many of us.
  5. Brohg Augur

    Gear makes little to no difference in shm power. That's either good or bad depending on your perspective, but true regardless. Shm power, like enchanters', is all on the spell bar with a couple AA backing it up.

    Bit better personal dps would absolutely be welcome. Most particularly, ways to dps comfortably without sacrificing the healing ability that takes so many spell gems for shm (9 of 12 gems, by my count: Counterbias, Gift, Surge, Reckless, Reckless, Recourse, Intervention, Shear, Lion. another if a questionable tank needs Ferocious Growth).

    Bite and 2*Swift is alright, but shm haven't yet gotten the level 70-some druid upgrade to Sunflash/Horde for fast casting. The "rain" style poison nukes were pretty good, but the upgrades didn't quite keep pace AND it missed the most recent level upgrade. Also cast time issue shared with dots so can't cast in a fast paced situation… Anyhow, yeah. Could use some developer attention, but also may be fine after the spring dot revamp? Will see.
  6. Raccoo Elder

    Spring dot revamp?? Please tell me this is true.
  7. IblisTheMage Augur

    I play with my buddy shaman, and he rocks. His dps is low, but it helps somewhat on EoK mobs with more health. Where shines is in the adps, the added tanking capability for my earth pet, CC, and of course slows and debufs. Our group dps goes op around 50%-60% when he is playing,with all the stuff he does. And he can heal a bit when needed also, we normally use a healer merc. His pet somehow moved out of the speed-bump era, and can now tank a bit in a pinch, but is also a channel for Roar, which is always up. Roar is about 830.000 pr cast. I wish I had a 830.000 damage spell...

    I think that if Shamans should ask for more, I would go for more adps, or a special "overslow" that Stacks with regular slow, if that is possible. Shine on, crazy diamond, and don't try to something else... :)
  8. IblisTheMage Augur

    Oh, and if casters are not meleeing while nuking, kick them. Roar procs wonderfully during GCD for me, and it is free damage.
  9. shruggz Lorekeeper

    @ Ibliz, You are correct sir, that the Shaman does bring a great deal to a group situation.
    my shaman is my main, but Ive taken to boxing the last couple years.
    and he runs with a mage and a bard,

    what I am trying to get at here is take the rest of the group out of the equation. go into eok, with just the dog and a tank merc and try to take down any trash mob. and see where that gets you.
    I would like to be able to actually kill something If I have to.

    as for roar, yes it is a step in the right direction, my crits on roar are about 71k and I usually see 2 sometimes 4 per cast of the spell, the dog and tank mercs proc is considerably less.

    (I may be less informed, where does the 830,000 damage come from? because I don't think I'm seeing that)

    and while helpful, will not kill a mob before your tank merc drops, it eats your dog and comes at you looking for desert and you then have 3 choices,
    1 totem
    2 cast the aa makes your target forget you(white striped kitty of forgetfulness idk sorry don't remember the name of it.)
    3 die. period.

    as far as the pet being less speed bumpish, yes indeed, with healer merc, and shaman heals as support, he can indeed sometimes last long enough to get something dead, however if you are running a tank merc with just shaman heals, his odds (and your odds) of survival plummet.

    I haven't run a healer merc instead of a tank merc in a long time, might be that the shaman with full defensives, and full hp and everything else is less squishy than a tank merc with full tanking and general aa's I may experiment some with that.

    and it could be that the problem isn't shaman power its the tank mercs lack of but that's a different topic and issue altogether

    the entire point of my post is that some classes with appropriate merc can handle several mobs, and the ones that cant deal with several don't have much problem with one. I'm asking for the tools to be able to deal with one, not a named, just one.

    and my crazy diamond keister isn't trying to be something it isn't, its just trying to be. and will continue to always shine.
  10. Brohg Augur

    Tank mercenary dps is really poor, I can't imagine that strategy, even if it worked, being more desirable than root-rotting. Shm obviously ain't necro good at that, but one of the shm I'm guilded with basically soloed all EOK progression that way.
  11. Raccoo Elder

    Raid geared from TBM mostly. About 21k AAs. So take that into consideration. This was solo with no mercs. Pet tanking most of the time (except for when my dots pulled agro. Didn't use my burn AA.
    A greater plaguebone in 119s, 5115k @42980sdps --- #1 Raccoo + pets 4566k@38369sdps (38369dps in 119s) [89.27%] --- #2 Kurama 549k@4612sdps (4690dps in 117s) [10.73%]
  12. Sowslow Elder

    There is very little in eok that cannot be rooted so root rot is way easier than any tank method for solo play.
    For those that needed to be tanked I used combo of dog and myself while loading up dots.
    I moloed a majority of progression tasks this way.
    I haven't used a tank Merc, well pretty much ever. I use healer most of the time or damage one when I need to burn something.
    As for DPS with just lion, dog and a few dots or dd, you should be hitting 30k or so. With full burns I get up to 90k but I sacrifice most of my healing. Nothing great but I can definitely kill stuff in eok.
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  13. IblisTheMage Augur

    I am no expert, my humble advice:
    Re 1): group: shaman, mage, bard, enchanter, heal merc, nuke merc. Shaman main, mage main with boxes brd and ench. Bard singing and meleeing, enchanter attacks with pet and chain runes :), mage nukes, pet attack and melees, shaman pet attack, melee, and shaman spell stuff. After a session I used Gamparse to add up the amounts of Roar procs for each and the number of Roar casts. I guestimate a crit rate, crit dam for the different proc'ers, and calculated the damage, split that up on Roar casts, and got to 830k.

    2) I would never use a tank merc. A fully buffed, geared and AAed shaman pet will do better, I am pretty sure. Or maybe use a caster merc on burn as tank, if you can keep him healed? At least you get some dps.

    3) healer merc. The key thing is to block the three slow heals on the tank/pet/yourself. The slow heals are a killer, the merc is decent when they are blocked.

    4) kill EoK: root? Pet tank w. maxed out pet (Spells, gear, AA)?
  14. shruggz Lorekeeper

    ok, after a few minutes checking things out, I have come to the conclusion that I can at times be a dummy =), cleric merc works much better in the molo area that I was having problems in.

    and I'm not sure why but I (maybe see above) I was thinking everything was summoning
    thanks to your sage advice ive found that not to be the case, and I can root rot effectively if need be.

    so, in short, thank you all for your advice, its been helpful, and now I'm looking forward to the weekend when I will have some time to play. and I will stop complaining now =)
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  15. Brohg Augur

    It's my impression that summoning vs. not and rootability vs. not, on a population level, was approximately flipped from TBM (at least the high tiers) to EOK.
  16. Gelido Lorekeeper

    Meanwhile my shaman can keep my group alive in EoK through any named and any of the missions, but hey i guess we are back ups or bottom of food chain ( keep in mind i box my shaman )
  17. shruggz Lorekeeper

    @ Gelido, what is your group composition out of curiosity, with a solid tank I'm sure I could too. but if your relying on a tank merc or em18 mage pet, (without a chanter to chain rune) your results are gonna vary. as for me I'm doing fine decided to bring up a plate class tank to replace either the bard or the mage not sure which yet, likely the mage. but will see how things go.
  18. Gelido Lorekeeper

    Depends, when my Sk friend is offline, i have no issue with Dps wizard, my main ( Gelido a monk ) Shaman, and tank merc ( granted i only farm T1 nameds with Tank merc ) so yea having the solid tank being my friend SK it aids in that aspect. Without friend its : Monk Zerker Shaman Merc tank Merc Wizzies ( 2 ) ) with friend it would be: SK Monk Zerk Wizard Enc Shm.
    The only nameds you wouldn't be able to really keep a tank merc alive with would be those such as The Lost Hunter in Lcea, Zakija or whatever in SW. Things with the AE that would destroy the merc.
    So i do see where my previous statement was vague and i apologize for not stating clearly the line ups. But i can still see a Shaman being main healer nowadays.
    Something i failed to mention, but id highly suggest a Shadowknight being your tank, by far the best in my opinion ( Yes my opinion ) when it comes to Grouping, sometimes you don't even need to heal them, only time i find myself healing the Shadowknight is when there is 2+ mobs in camp
  19. shruggz Lorekeeper

    Thank you for the reply and your opinion, I am in fact bringing up 2 sk's lol, one on mage account one on bard acct, will see which one synergizes better. I have had no trouble with the mage bard shaman in most t1 nameds, some though like you said are difficult, I haven't spent much time in t2 zones yet,
    its the quests and missions that are very difficult for me, I suspect if I can get a sk geared properly that may help me with progression stuff we will see, is fun so far and that's what counts
  20. Millianna Augur

    I think the OPs problem isn't with the Shaman class - it's with the lame HAs. Sure, you can box a shaman - but why would you? It simply drags out what is already boring. He' is absolutely correct in saying he's better off with dps.

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