So I'm a returning player after a few years off. I haven't bothered with boxing yet, seeing as I'm just trying to reacquaint myself with the game. Right now I'm main an SK, with multiple alts just to get a feel for different classes (Beast, Shaman, Ranger, Mage - all various levels). Planning on trying to box this week. I'm familiar with the SK/Sham set up. Ran it in the past. But now I'm interested in the idea of a Druid. My only concern is: once I get into EoK, will my SK/Druid set up be okays? Or am I going to need the slows from the Shaman? P.S. - I will eventually end up 3 boxing, adding in a DPS once I get back into the swing of boxing (mage or wizard I'm thinking. Swap over, hit a macro and don't worry about them) Last time I played I ran a Paladin / Mage / Ranger box, so it shouldn't take long to get used to again.
With all the slow mitigation in high end mobs, I believe that the Druid's attack debuffs are actually better than slow (search for druid attack debuff in forums for more info). I think a mob fully debuffed by a druid vs shaman is fairly equal (at least in my limited testing with a pally in group gear). The big win for the shaman vs druid is going to be on the ADPS side with your SK...you will learn to love Roar of the Lion. Shaman dots are in a good space right now as well (although who knows how long that will last). I have both in my main group (with a pally). One thing I have noticed, druids can bleed mana if you are killing at a fast rate, requiring some down time. The shammy, with spell and aa canni, just keeps powering through.
Just a question if your druid is bleeding mana are you using the appropriate wolf forms (self and group) on recast?
I've heard this but I don't believe it is true. Which druid debuffs? There are quite a few and usually by the time you cast them all the mob is half dead. Shaman are the clear winners for duoing in my opinion. They can cast a slow / heal proc buff right on the tank, so they don't have to spend half the time of the fight debuffing the mob. They can also place a heal over time on the tank to cover a few seconds if they need to lower the mob magic resistance first. The shaman "focus" lines stack nicely with cleric buffs (get from a cleric merc), while the druid "skin" line does not. Plus haste for your tank, etc. Your other points also cover where shaman are better. Druids get ports and, I believe, can do a straight healing job better than shaman, but otherwise do not contribute as much. Druid dots have gained quite a bit of punch lately, but as you say, they also use a lot of mana. I like my druid but shaman have always brought more to the group. With cleric mercs, the need for a druid to take the place of an absent cleric has lessened. The player behind the toon is always the most important factor but if you can skip ports, I see no time a shaman would not be better.
How on earth does a druid do a better healing job than a shaman? Those reckless heals and quick cast group heals are vastly superior to Rejuv/Adrenaline/Vida and Lunar group heals for both recast and cast times
I prefaced my remark with "I believe". I can be wrong. I really don't know enough about shaman to make a good comparison and I should have made that clear.
Pellicle of the Reptile (which is pre buffed on the tank. a feature you mysteriously call out as enviable in the shaman version? includes a 4k heal) + Moonbright Frost (spell includes 7k base heal) + Blessing of Ro AA, for -43-229-270-82 = -624atk, takes 3s to land all and begin casting whatever the next spell is. If 3s is just much, much too long to spend debuffing? if fights are over that fast? --then your party sure as wasn't going to benefit from the 0.2-0.4s (content dependent) longer between mob melee rounds that a shm slow gets you, either. While not necessary with either a shm or dru in group, if the group is using a healing mercenary then what matters is what else the priest brings to the table. In the case of druids, it's completely legit fill for a dps class, and very good support for the party's spell damage.
Shaman healing output kind of craps on Druids, the only thing druids have going for them that is their damage model is preferred in faster content. Druids could honestly use some love. And not the tough love the devs usually hand out in bitesized nerf packages. Healing wise atleast IMO. Shamans got reckless reuse timer reductions and quick group heals where as druids are stuck using a group heal that takes an aeon to cast and long recast quick heals.
Not so much interested in a Zerker. While I'm sure a Berserker would be great DPS, you'd almost have to focus on that toon to get the most out of him. Wizard would be a better set up for macro. Given that, wouldn't be a bad idea to use the Druid for another DPS slot and back up/emergency heals if need be, while given a caster DPS the boost (yes, I'd rather have a caster DPS over the Zerker).
Recks are good. 1.0s cast with 8 & 13s cooldowns on the unlinked 105 & 100 spells. Good, but "vastly superior" to Resurg 0.5s cast, 12s cooldown Adren 1.8s, 15s cooldown. It's bigger, of course, and has the protective recourse. Remote Sunflash 0.8s, 24s cooldown ? I wouldn't qualify that difference as "vastly superior" Krasir's Recourse 1s cast, but with 24s cooldown. Also, quite good. But versus Lunasoothe, ain't fast, 2.3s cast, but 12s cooldown not 24 ? That's "different", to me. Intervention(shm) and Survival(dru) are exact clones of each other. The druid atk debuff procs a heal, shm slow procs a HoT. Both classes have a twinheal-proccing TOT nuke, 1s cast 12s cooldown. Druids' is a touch better due to the twin not being contingent on the nuke, but whatever. Both classes, should they desire to, can spam their Alliance spell as a group heal. There are tradeoffs here also: shm 2.3s cast heals for 11.8 in 60' radius, druid 1.6(?)cast heals for 14.3 in 28' radius. HoTs exist. Of course, cle AE Celestial obviates shm Shear of Renewal, but there's also the HoT of Roar of the Lion. That could be characterized as better support than Dichotomic Winds. Lion can't be Forceful Rejuvenationed & quadded for a million damage, but tradeoffs, right? That leaves Spiritual Swell. Definitely better there than Promised Regeneration. So, there's that.
In a single group with a single healer, I would qualify shaman healing as vastly superior I stand by what I said. We can agree to disagree. The HOTs from Shear and Lion when combined with the quicker recast on reckless heals is a better healing model, throwing in a swell (if Area damage is a thing) to top folks off, is preferable over the Druid Lunar heal. Which yes it has a faster recast, but still that cast time is disgusting in modern EQ. Remotes should be on a much lower recast and/or unlinked. Preferably lower recast though. Both of their twincast heals are terrible in comparison to the cleric one though, so whatever. Pellicle of the reptile is more useful then the sloth line, meh yeh that's true. Counterbias compared to the HOTT si don't know I usually use the AA during GCD. On either class.
I should not have commented in this thread as I don't know enough about the subjects. Please disregard my comments in this thread.
I've not done any parsing recently but in the past the difference between the amount of damage a wizard that got aggro took between Druid ATK debuffs and Shaman slows was amazing. The wizard would usually survive the debuffed mob and usually died to the slowed mob. How the difference shakes out for a decently geared SK may be different but those ATK debuff are really great
Trieln - SK/DRU setup will be fine. Honestly, ANY real healer plus SK will be fine. SK can tank and heal themselves quite well nowadays. ANY (non-merc) healer is capable of healing them even through 6-8 mob pulls, if using their abilities. As you can see, it's fairly argumentative which would be better. IMO, for boxing purposes, the druid's DPS, ADPS, porting, and tracking abilities tip it over the edge on the scale, vs shaman, for boxing.
Druids are better for spell classes. Shamans are better for melee classes. Usually the decision is made by the last class of a three member group. In a two member group, there is no obvious winner, but I will say this: since you are playing a Shadow Knight and have a pet, you can get the equivalent of five Lion targets from using Shaman pet, Shadow Knight pet, Shadow Knight, and two melee mercenaries. That's nice for a two member group.
6. My shaman whacks away at mobs as well. It may not be a lot, but every little bit helps. I tried finding the specifics of what Roar of the Lion actually does, but didn't find it anywhere. And my toons are a wee bit off from 100-105 anywho. But is the Lion line (in terms of a melee heavy group), that big of a weight to perhaps tip the scales?
I prefer a druid healing me vs a shammy. Maybe it's the way I pull or tank, but a druid keeps me up easier. (I don't make it easy on them though)
I've done most EoK content boxing a SK/Druid (+1 or 2 other toons) and on the odd occasion I have swapped the Druid for a Shaman. My Druid/Shaman is there for utility/dps and I prefer to rely on a real healer or a healer merc (easier to setup a macro for damage than healing). I've not had any issues going without slow and that was with my Druid only using Blessing of Ro as a debuff. Also if you decide to go with a Druid then your SK will also benefit from Black Wolf and cold/fire aura. I suspect that the 3rd toon you plan to box will really determine if a druid or shaman would be the better choice. When I do switch to a Shaman I really miss tracking and port to bind.
