Shaman DPS potential

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Mehdisin Mahn, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    So, just for discussion.... in current raid content, what is a shaman's dps potential over say a 15 minute, single raid boss fight? assuming the shaman is doing little to no healing,
    other things i'd like to know:
    - how many debuff slots does it take?
    - what AA / ADPS / spells were used?
    - mana pool necessary to maintain the damage over the full window

    I've seen someone top 350k on a parse, but they were using both their own and their neighbors kitchen sinks (even hit rabid bear and were swingin' on the mob)…. and I think the fight was around 10 minutes rather than 15. so you could say i'm curious.
  2. chocster Lorekeeper

    Do not speak of such things,
    Spoken words of the true power of Shaman DPS potential leads to nerfs.
  3. Szilent Augur

    The meleeing you mention as a "kitchen sink" add-on isn't such a throwaway. Depending on group makeup (in particular ranger & rogue teammates with Synergy AAs), meleeing for procs is a really real thing.

    From a million-dps 2 minute battle a couple months ago:
    /GU Seneschal Radiant Propensity in 135s, 4,569.4m @33847595sdps | #10 Shaman + pets 129.7m@960.7k sdps (1,021.2k dps in 127s)

    the shaman's top nuke was rogue Synergy, contributing 4.3M, 34k dps (the crit% will have been boosted by Auspice full time on this duration):

    Blackguard's Synergy Strike III Chromatic 4292295 20.0 3.4 34338.4 17 17 17 100.0 10 58.8 0 0.0 245760 252487 257902
    Feral Bite XI Disease 3962398 18.5 3.2 31699.2 15 15 15 100.0 7 46.7 0 0.0 235724 264159 296180
    Arms of Holy Wrath VI Magic 3793647 17.7 3.0 30349.2 45 45 45 100.0 22 48.9 9 20.0 76798 84303 170909
    Dissident Roar Strike 6 Chromatic 3634753 17.0 2.9 29078.0 27 27 27 100.0 12 44.4 6 22.2 123558 134620 219659

    The lion's share of damage of course came from Fleeting Spirit twinned dots. Poisons, Magics, and Diseases(breath & pandemic, not affliction)
    Black and Tucoh like this.
  4. chocster Lorekeeper

    Joined the 1Billion damage club on ToV T3 raids.
    - Druid, Bard, beastie, ranger, zerker, in group
    - Yes I was swinging
    - Yes I throw everything and the kitchen sink at it when I am able to DPS
    - Yes, Shamans can throw SERIOUS raid DPS
    - Yes, contrary to others, there are some events that we can "Let if Fly" and not hurt the raid healing
    needs.
    * 828 casts/received on parse
    * a spec over 1Billion damage
    * 7.27% damage
    Tucoh likes this.
  5. Nylrem Augur

    This is from an alt raid, with like 42 in raid. Most/all lacking top raid gear, focuses, etc.

    Probably not the best raid to use to choose for shaman parse, because of the damage mitigation, but isn't a lot of events where shaman doesn't heal a lot, for us, on alt raids. Does show that shaman is capable of sustaining with the best of DPS though.

    /GU Combined: A velium sentry (19), Combined: An unstable velium sentry (11), Combined: A velium custodian (2), Combined: Servant of the Sleeper (1) in 1331s, 5,308.9m @3988685 |

    Necromancer + pets@426.1k | Magician + pets@360.1k | Shaman + pets@320.7k | Berserker + pets@282.0k | Druid + pets@233.6k | Magician + pets@227.5k | Monk@196.7k | Rogue@160.8k | Beastlord + pets@159.3k | Beastlord + pets@158.2k | Ranger + pets@151.7k | Ranger@148.2k | Bard + pets@140.5k | Rogue@130.5k | Magician + pets@108.9k ...
  6. Nylrem Augur

    Alt raid, again...

    /GU Combined: A shivering dire wolf (18), Combined: A restless Kromrif (11), Combined: A restless dire wolf (5), Combined: Narandi the Restless (4), Combined: Huntmaster Grondo (1) in 1446s, 10,403.1m @7194431 |

    Druid + pets@509.9k | Necromancer + pets@485.8k | Shaman + pets@445.5k | Magician + pets@399.6k | Monk@398.3k | Magician + pets@371.2k | Rogue@369.6k | Beastlord + pets@324.8k | Ranger + pets@323.3k | Rogue@314.4k | Magician + pets@306.8k | Monk@276.1k | Bard + pets@239.3k | Beastlord + pets@2 ...
  7. Nylrem Augur

    /GU Combined: Griklor the Restless (11), Combined: A cursed dervish (11), Combined: A haunted Ry`Gorr (3), Combined: A restless Ry`Gorr (1), Combined: An icebound dervish (1) in 1441s, 10,032.4m @6962129 |

    Berserker + pets@591.2k | Rogue@426.8k | Necromancer + pets@393.5k | Rogue@386.1k | Druid + pets@382.0k | Monk@378.5k | Shaman + pets@361.7k | Magician + pets@359.6k | Ranger@296.5k | Magician + pets@253.4k | Beastlord + pets@252.3k | Monk@240.0k | Ranger + pets@236.9k | Berserker + pets@219.7k | Ba ...
  8. Nylrem Augur

    Here's the spells cast during the GD raid for that shaman, notice, still lotsa heals cast...

    Combined: A shivering dire wolf (18), Combined: A restless Kromrif (11), Combined: A restless dire wolf (4), Combined: Narandi the Restless (4), Combined: Mandrikai (1) on 5/14/2020
    Turung - 392
    --- Ancestral Aid XXXIV - 2
    --- Ancestral Guard XLVI - 2
    --- Ancestral Guardian Spirit IX - 1
    --- Call of the Ancients XIX - 1
    --- Cannibalization XVIII - 9
    --- Chaotic Poison Rk. II - 26
    --- Circle of Power IV - 1
    --- Dissident Roar - 18
    --- Elkikatar's Pandemic - 25
    --- Evil Eye Rk. II - 36
    --- Fleeting Spirit (Decay) VII - 1
    --- Forceful Rejuvenation - 1
    --- Glyph of Arcane Secrets V - 1
    --- Glyph of Destruction V - 1
    --- Glyph of Dragon Scales V - 1
    --- Group Perfected Levitation - 1
    --- Intensity of the Resolute - 1
    --- Invoke Pact of the Wolf XIV - 1
    --- Malaise IX - 11
    --- Marlek's Curse Rk. II - 21
    --- Mass Group Buff - 1
    --- Potion - Crystal Mana Tonic - 1
    --- Potion - Restless Focus - 1
    --- Primordial Intervention Rk. II - 1
    --- Prophet's Gift of the Ruchu - 8
    --- Rabid Bear XII - 2
    --- Received Auspice of the Hunter - 4
    --- Received Bard Epic - 7
    --- Received Bestial Alignment - 2
    --- Received Commanding Voice - 30
    --- Received Dissident Fury - 1
    --- Received Fists of Wu - 53
    --- Received Paragon - 5
    --- Received Quick Time - 2
    --- Received Ruaabri's Fury - 1
    --- Received Shaman Epic - 6
    --- Reckless Rejuvenation Rk. II - 3
    --- Reckless Renewal Rk. II - 3
    --- Resurrection - 3
    --- Silent Casting V - 1
    --- Slain - 1
    --- Spectre of Renewal Rk. II - 32
    --- Spire of Ancestors XII - 3
    --- Spirit Call XXX - 4
    --- Spiritual Channeling V - 1
    --- Spiritual Squall Rk. II - 87
    --- Staunch Recovery - 1
    --- Svartmane's Affliction Rk. II - 17
    --- Turgur's Swarm VI - 19
    --- Turgur's Virulent Swarm X - 3
    --- Union of Spirits XXVIII - 1
    --- Unity of the Kromrif - 4
    --- Wind of Malaise VI - 11
    --- Wintry Gift Rk. II - 12
    --- Zrelik's Recourse Rk. II - 14
    Produced by GamParse v2.0.0.98 BETA
    Duder likes this.
  9. Szilent Augur

    hmm. 1446 is 24 minutes of battling. not a terrible lot of downtime, based on the Spirit Call & Ruchu counts.

    Turung - 392
    dps
    --- Chaotic Poison Rk. II - 26
    --- Dissident Roar - 18
    --- Elkikatar's Pandemic - 25
    --- Evil Eye Rk. II - 36
    --- Fleeting Spirit (Decay) VII - 1
    --- Glyph of Destruction V - 1
    --- Intensity of the Resolute - 1
    --- Marlek's Curse Rk. II - 21
    --- Rabid Bear XII - 2
    --- Spire of Ancestors XII - 3
    --- Spirit Call XXX - 4
    --- Svartmane's Affliction Rk. II - 17


    heals & supports
    --- Primordial Intervention Rk. II - 1
    --- Prophet's Gift of the Ruchu - 8
    --- Reckless Rejuvenation Rk. II - 3
    --- Reckless Renewal Rk. II - 3
    --- Spectre of Renewal Rk. II - 32
    --- Spiritual Squall Rk. II - 87
    --- Unity of the Kromrif - 4
    --- Wintry Gift Rk. II - 12
    --- Zrelik's Recourse Rk. II - 14

    +stuff

    14/13 spell gems used, 299 total spells cast for ~12.5/minute

    Notably, grouped with bard who didn't *quite* match up epics with epics. Received 4 Auspice, but that version of GamParse wouldn't note if he was grouped with one of the two rangers to benefit from Scarlet Cheetah.

    nice parse :)
    Duder likes this.
  10. Nylrem Augur

    I just wanted to point out... that it's doable for either 'other' priest to consistently make top 10 on a DPS parse...

    CLERICS NEED DPS UPGRADES TO MAKE THEM MORE DESIRABLE in groups!!!

    Intervention/Contravention swapping, even with Turn Undead once every 3 min, ain't cutting it.

    Need some serious boosts to cleric DPS stuff.
  11. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    if that's doable for you, then literally all but 9 other people on your raid are slacking...

    a raid should have 2ish necros that should beat either of the other priests.... a raid should have 2-4 zerkers who should beat either of the other priests, a raid should have monks and mages that should all beat either of the other priests.... I could keep going but you should get the point...
  12. Sancus Augur

    Perhaps the raid just has competent priests.
    Duder likes this.
  13. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    sure, maybe... so tell me, are ROI priests in the top 10 dps consistently? if not then why don't you have competent priests? :rolleyes:

    I mean, maybe if you're raiding with 30 or you have half of your raid force as priests...
  14. Nylrem Augur

    Maybe I should have worded my statement a bit differently, or added some clarification.

    I'll try and be a bit less sarcastic than you, although it's not in my nature :)

    All but 9 other people in the raid are slacking. That's a hoot :) I'm talking mainly from the perspective of RA alt raids. 'Slacking' some, sure, maybe... ALL BUT 9... nah, never believe that.

    Shortage of high DPS classes, shortage of aDPS classes, absolutely. 1 necro, 1 zerker, 1 bard, maybe not even a chanter. 2-3 each rogues, magicians, wizards, boatload of rangers, 5-6 shaman. You know, stuff a 'typical' guild deals with on a regular basis. Abundance in one area, lack of in other areas. ROI probably wouldn't know anything about that.

    Facts:

    Shaman are capable of 400k+ sustained (indefinitely) DPS, while healing almost 50% of their casts...

    Druid are capable of 450k+ sustained (but severe mana depletion issues).

    These are numbers that are DOABLE.

    These are numbers that would CONSISTENTLY be in the top 10 of the dps parse for any but maybe the top 7 or 8 raid guilds. (I know some nights, RA top 10 for the evening dips down to the 450k range).

    The personal DPS, aDPS abilities, buffs, debuffs, and utility that shaman and druids have are comparable to many NON-priest classes.

    Bottom Line:

    Cleric is falling very far behind Druid and Shaman for DPS and aDPS abilities, and should receive some significant boosts. Since either other priest is perfectly capable of healing in all group content, the desirability goes to the other priest classes when a healer is needed doing progression and tasks. One that can, when appropriate, add a decent amount of DPS, aDPS, or utility to make the probability of success higher and completion rate faster.
    Mediik likes this.
  15. chocster Lorekeeper

    Saying a pure DPS class will outdo a Shaman during all raids is inaccurate.
    It all depends on the RAID and the mechanics.
    - Melee have to wait for the mobs to get to RAID. DoTers/caster DPS can cast from afar and can already be loaded up on a mob before it even get into a "swinger's" range.

    I've said it once,,,and Ill keep saying it.

    Some raids fancy "swingers"
    Some raids fancy DoTers
    It all depends on the RAID and mechanics of that raid
    minimind likes this.
  16. Tucoh Augur

    Which raids in CoV favor druids or shamans over which pure DPS classes?
  17. kookoo Augur

    there are some boss when they go inactive i still can see the damage from the dots , i don't know if they apply on the parse tho,

    and when there are multiple targets who can be doted , melee can focus only one one mob at a time, while doters can hit several.

    for us it is usually necro at the top parse followed by zerker , rogue , monk .

    zandlicar raid they put a pally in an group with shm and bard, , he was easily 1st on parse, since that boss is undead. and he got the new cov tradeskill raid weapon,
    Tucoh and minimind like this.
  18. Tolzol Augur

    I’m pretty sure i lose to at least one priest on every event that’s not over in less than 120 seconds. And even on a straight up burn fight they are literally right behind me on a parse.
    Szilent and Sancus like this.
  19. Behelit Augur

    idk what ya'll talking about, but boost shamans
    Raccoo, Jondalar, Black and 2 others like this.
  20. kookoo Augur

    here and there we have 3 necros in raid, and i got dots to not land because of the limited debuffs a mob can have , so when we have 3 necros i don't cast as many dots and let necros do their only role { dps }.

    if i have dots to not land i guess they have some of their dots to not land as well.

Share This Page