Shaman Burn Discussion - Cactus

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Liin Edud (Tunare), Aug 22, 2018.

  1. Liin Edud (Tunare) Augur

    Looking for some opinions on Fell Foliage and maybe this is actually more of a stacking conversation.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the difficulty of the mission or the developers decision to make this a T1 roadblock. We do beat/farm Fell Foliage group mission fairly consistently but we do get the lock @ under 5% on occasion. I'm just trying to figure out if there's anything more I could be doing.

    We've talked about it a few times in the Tunare Shaman channel and I've talked it out with a few high-end "raid guild" shamans, but there are differing opinions so I figured I'd try to go server-wide.

    Our guild is all 110 group geared (more and more T2 every day) and a few chase. Our standard group for this mission is Warrior, Shaman (me), Cleric merc, Box Bard and then a rotation of DPS classes (rogues, beastlords, berzerkers, etc.)

    Typically as this goes I'm hitting Spirit Call, Roar 3, Fleeting Spirit, Shaman 2.0 and Third Spire . I set 5 dots and backup heal (group instant and HoT) while doing 2hb melee in rabid bear (refresh Roar and dots as needed). Draconic Magic and Pack are running, shaman dog buffed with pet weapons. All my DPS AAs are maxxed along with the focus AAs for all 5 dots and the relevant type 3 augs for those dots.

    Long story short the only thing I can come up with to be doing differently for me is trading out for Spire 1 since bard is using Fierce Eye IV and 2.0. This over-stacks most all of my Spire 3 but except for my increase to the lower bound of the group minimum melee damage. The flip side of it is that Fierce Eye and bard 2.0 are going to give me just about Spire 1 in crit dot chance anyways so I'm not sure there's much gain.

    Maybe I'm just overthinking it and I've done what I can.
  2. Monkman Augur

    You’ve done what you can... tell the 3 dps in group to step it up
  3. Monkman Augur

    Also lose the cleric merc, you’re totally capable of healing through that event. Replace merc with another dps
  4. Conq Augur

    Merc's are the Devil. Get another player in there and maybe ask your dps if they're clicking all their ? I've run this on my warrior with only a shaman healing, no problems.
  5. Liin Edud (Tunare) Augur

    Thanks for the responses guys, I was starting to suspect that this was the case but I just wanted to confirm I wasn't missing anything.

    We've tried it this way a few times but we're not quite there yet. We're getting closer and I agree I can keep the warrior standing forever but some of our DPS get really beat up on the DS. My HoTs and group heals are just not enough to save all of them the entire time.

    Am I wrong on this stacking issue or are we going to end up about par either way Spire 1 vs Spire 3?
  6. Brohg Augur

    As a healer, it's not on you to compensate for other players doing things wrong. It's nice if you can throw out a rescue, but just like them you're there to fight mobs. Not change diapers. If you have the sort of dps that might beat themselves to death via the reverse melee tap, then they should just crush all the a_sprouting_succulent (they should hotkey /tar a_sprout) as they come up instead, then kill Burgeoning. Shm dots & bard dps (mmm bard dps mmmm) will kill Cactiikii, np. It's less exciting, but it's a pretty easy win.

    SHM 56% dot crit rate. +12% vesagran, +13% fierceye gets to 81% . First spire actually gets you to crit% cap. First spire.
  7. Belkar_OotS Augur

    Melee get ripped apart on this event. They must stop attacking aggressively if they get the debuff. A better option with melee is to have a beastlord cast.... beastial evulsion? Which blocks it.

    You need about 850k dps for 90s to ignore the adds and not get the immunity.

    I think we have 7 total dots we can toss in, and some nukes if you feel like it. But you are doing quite a bit with the group.
  8. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    technically 9 lines we can toss in....
    2 magic, 2 poison, 3 disease, languid bite, and the rabid bear proc if you have the chance to melee.
    realistically on a short duration fight you're looking at 2 magic, 2 poison, 1 disease and languid, if you're lucky. my groups are usually full of suicidal rogues so we let an sk tank (with epic) and I spend the duration using every fast heal/click I can find to keep the dps alive.

    personally, i'd agree with the first response and say your dpsers need to step it up. there's no reason 3 bard/shaman supported dps classes shouldn't rip this mission apart, even if they're just in group gear.
  9. Liin Edud (Tunare) Augur

    Thanks for the responses, I think I'll try using Spire 1 instead for a while and see if that pushes us over the edge every time.

    Like I said, we still get consistent wins but if I can do anything to not lock @ 1% (has happened more than once) I'd like to try.

    I guess part of the problem is that based on my original post I barely know what the stacking issues are with my own class. I know next to nothing about any of the others.

    I wouldn't even know what to ask if they're using everything to its fullest or if we need to grind out some AAs to get some extra buttons to push.

    Anyone know of a website or a forum thread somewhere that lists the most efficient/effective burns for each class

    • Press AA abilities 1-6 (refresh as needed)
    • Dicho
    • Discs 1-3 (refresh as needed)
    • Make sure you have these 9 passive AAs maxxed
  10. Brohg Augur

    If you're going with rogues & other melee, their contribution is going to be based on finding & killing Sprouts, not discing out the boss.
  11. Daedly Augur

    I box this mission with my characters listed below. I ignore the adds. There is only 2 pieces of raid gear between all of them, zerker weapon and his shoulders. The only character I hold anything back on is my berserker. Which is I won't use his dicho, nor his rampage button. Other than that I throw everything at it that I can.

    What I was personally finding when I started was that once my berseker died, I lost any chance I had at beating it. So what I did from then on was used my shaman and just spammed healed him with everything I had. Now the only time he dies is when I do something stupid, like forget to remove his dicho from his burn keybind.

    With a melee group I have always used epic and ancestral aid

    Don't suppose you parse at all do you? Might be interesting to see how well your other DPS characters doing.

    There are some good write ups here
  12. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    based on the way the OP is talking, i'm thinking trying to bypass the sprouts is the whole point of this discussion.

    If you use your intervention spell, followed by the AA, followed by the other group heal, BP click, and splash... use twincasts as much as possible on it, then you should be okay with melee dps swinging at the boss on this event. They have to ride the line to push their own dps, but stop hitting cactikii before they kill themselves.

    As far as stacking goes, your dps should be more familiar with stacking issues than you will be (this SHOULD be almost universally true) if they're any good at their class. Everything they do should be timed off of your clicks, not the other way around. the reasoning for this is simple, every class has different stuff to use, if you had to check everyone's buffs/discs before clicking your epic or hitting aid, or lion etc then you'd never end up clicking it. So you do your part by throwing on your abilities in a smart manner and then concentrate on keeping people alive. The most efficient DPS burn rotations would be in their own class forums.

    HoT and Lion pretty much as soon as the trigger mob spawns, then epic right as it dies.... 3rd spire and aid immediately when the boss pops, heal ward if you want.. someone should hit a CoP4 and bard should time his epic with yours. recast lion as soon as it the gem refreshes... After that you pretty much only have heals to contribute to the group, and they have ~60s of max dps to do their job. If it's not dead by ~90s you're going to have to deal with adds.
  13. Bigfan Augur

    Your dps is slacking..
    Warrior and bard alone should be hitting at least 150k+.
    Looks like you're doing all you can with your dps.

    Make the melee step up.

    (hint:alternate bellow and shout on bard)
  14. Liin Edud (Tunare) Augur

    We tried again Monday evening and lost the 1st time with a nuker merc because no one was online and then steam-rolled him the 2nd time when a beastlord signed in. I used Spire 1 this time.

    I have proposed the idea of the warrior coming off defensive and putting away axe/shield but I'm not sure we're there yet. We may need to take an evening of deaths and test it out.

    The bard is a box in every sense of the word, very "set it and forget it". He's being boxed by the warrior so I'm not sure how much more we could get out of him. We've been pulling up @ 30% on the monstrous to give the bard time to click Fierce Eye, Quick Time, 2.0 and BP before Catiikii spawns. This has seemed to help.

    Its getting easier and easier each time with additional T2 gear and more AAs. Some of us are returning late to the game (I came back almost exactly a year ago and hadn't played since CotF). Several are playing alts now instead of old mains. We had some family guild drama that caused a guild split and slowed things down. Looking over I think grinding out Synergy for our DPS is going to make this trivial.

    I enjoy the missions and enjoy the challenge. Its a bit more complicated than it was back in my old days but I've always like doing tough things with just a few people than having to manage a raid of 50 or more people (Launch to PoP days). Enforced limits of the number of people make it interesting. Way back when if content was too tough you just brought more people and you could usually get it done.

    Thanks for chiming in guys, I was hesitant to even start this thread because I know how threads on this topic and End of Empires have devolved into a stream of posts telling people to man up, learn your class, stop whining, etc. Really just needed some feedback on whether or not I was doing everything I could be doing.
  15. Bigfan Augur

    Problem with these missions, they require everyone doing top of what they can do..(see:atrocious achievement)

    The bard box is letting down your group.
    You're actually pulling above what you should be doing, which is fine, just need to coach the others to do what you just did, ask questions.

    Add edit: warrior baseline with adps with sword and board can hit 150k dps
  16. Daedly Augur

    I am gonna play with this tomorrow, but are saying to do this because both of them can be on a mob at the same time? Or is this just for that initial damage each time they are used?
  17. Lazipuppy Journeyman

    Can be on mob at the same time, they are on same timer but don't overwrite each other.
    Bigfan likes this.
  18. Bigfan Augur

    basically, if you juggle it, you can keep the 2 "count down procs" on the mob, so 950k~ every 18 sec or so, but more if you juggle the two, but it's a BURN only thing since it eats END.
  19. Gundolin Augur

    The atrocious achievement really keeps everyone on their toes. We plunge through the regular FF mission very fast and easy. But warrior purpled on our latest run through for atrocious. That one is just brutal, even after they toned it down.
  20. Tucoh Augur

    Getting your dps buddies in this thread or a similar one in their forums is probably the best way to improve yoyr groups dps.

    Your warrior buddy may also want to check out dual wield if he isnt already