Server Discussion - Non Truebox rule set.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by dreamweaver, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. Machen Augur

    Just throwing in my support for a non truebox, AOC enabled server. I've been one of the people asking for this ever since Phinny launched.

    I would prefer to see it begin in an era with instanced group content begins, to avoid mass boxers in open world stomping people. I could live with Luclin or later, anything earlier and I'd probably wait til it hit those eras before playing. PoP/LDoN or OoW would be even better.

    Beyond removing truebox and including AoC's, please DO NOT give it any weird additional rules. The biggest mistake, imo, would be to throw some obscure ruleset on it in addition to removing truebox, that would prevent people from wanting to play there. See Coirnav for example. You won't be able to judge how popular the non-truebox factor is if you screw it up in other ways.

    Edit to add -- this should not be the server to experiment with FV ruleset. At least not the first one. Make it simple, basic, AoCs and no Truebox, and let us see if there is a significant player base that will play there.
  2. birisu Lorekeeper

    Yes, I would be interested in a non-truebox server with AoCs. I would even suffer through a classic start if I knew it would end up in a place where I could box a couple characters on a single PC once the hype died down
  3. Eetra Journeyman

    Non truebox, AoC server would be great. FV loot would be double great but not holding my breath. Do not care what era it starts in, but luclin-popish would be my preference if given the option.
    ForumBoss likes this.
  4. Potawatomi Augur

  5. Brovaar Elder

    I am usually silent, but I will chime in on this one. We have had one after another of True-Box for years now. I think a Non-True Box with a Firiona rule set would be grand.

    1) Non-True Box
    2) Firiona Rule set
    3) Selos experience rate
    4) Selos speed progression unlocks ( or slightly slower if some feel it is too fast; Mangler speed would be too slow though).
    ForumBoss likes this.
  6. Eangel Elder

    Non truebox please.
    2-3 month expacs
    Wouldn't mind FV loot, not a deal breaker
    Starting point HoT with heroic toons. I really that idea and honestly was pretty excited about that combo (Hot & Heroic toons)
    AoC indifferent
    Echokid likes this.
  7. Finchy Augur


    Dreamweaver, what really needs to happen here is a clear understanding of the question. There are people that are going to disagree with what I post below, which is fine, this is a discussion, but i need to get this point across.

    Truebox intended purpose was to mitigate those that were taking advantage of the ability to box literally dozens of accounts from 1 computer. Some of these people used software to help automate that process, some did not. The fact is people were taking advantage of technology in a game that was around before it possible to do these things. Whether it be mages locking down an entire zone for all the sought after items, or mage armies steam rolling through other content, or throwing mages at raid targets at one point. It was also the high ego people that think they are above everyone else and want to simply 6 box and take content from others.

    The early days of EQ plus the technology of what our computers can handle made this very easy for those folks to destroy the fun and experience of others. This is why truebox was put in place; to eliminate as much of that as possible.

    People will always circumvent rules and do what they can to cause an unpleasant experience for those around them just to get joy of their own. Truebox was a way to help mitigate those people and make it more difficult for them to accomplish this. In addition to Truebox, they reach out to the company that handles the automated software and go into agreement with them to not support the software on Truebox servers (current TLP sets).

    These two pieces added up nicely and allowed for a round of TLP servers to actually be playable and enjoyable for most(yes of course people still did stupid crap and there was still drama). These TLP servers also started from level 1 in classic(except for the one that opened with luclin, but same concept) with open zones and no instances. Along come AoCs to give the old content the ability to be completed by all so 1 or 2 guilds don't hold all raid targets hostage. Then came zone picks to help eliminate people fighting over camps and help spread people out. These were all good changes to the TLP ruleset, and allowed people to more so enjoy themselves with limited amounts of trolls and people causing drama for the simple enjoyment of it.

    Again, the Truebox, agreement with software company, AoCs, pick zones, all great additions in an effort to mitigate as much crap as possible. The only stand-a-lone addition in this group is the Truebox piece. The other, what i see as Quality of Life changes, are good additions not only to TLPs but to live servers and event servers. They serve a purpose for all ages of EQ, new and old alike(obviously you can't put an agreement for all servers for the software company for obvious reasons, but i think you get the point).

    Then there is Truebox. A great solution to what was a large problem in early expansions. However, over time and the changes to EQ instancing becomes more available and the massive armies running around become more of a moot point. In the later expansions, almost every single zone can be instanced through missions and quests of the like. During that transition, Mercs are introduced which allow people to play off by themselves with a little AI support. In addition to mercs coming out, attrition begins to set in on those servers in that era. Slowly over the following 5 expansions more and more people dwindle from the server leaving grouping/leveling/hanging out with randoms far and few between.

    So with all these changes taking place, you have lower server population, AI group members, and Truebox. What happens here is this far into a server people have been beaten down having to maneuver multiple toons across multiple computers, so they stop boxing as much. So now grouping is at an all time low on the server and your not boxing as much because of how cumbersome it is, you find yourself logging in and not doing much night after night until you go do something else. Now attrition really sets in and this is where the server "dies".

    By removing Truebox code from certain server rulesets it will help preserve some of that attrition, as the nights when people are having a hard time finding that group, they can fire up a box or two and go do something to pass the time instead of hanging out in the guild hall watching youtube or netflix on another monitor. We have seen it time and time again where TLPs start to fade after Underfoot. Phingel has been the most successful TLP to date, and is moving into Rain of Fear with 4 guilds remaining, which is pretty strong for a TLP in that era. Attrition is really setting in on that server, and 3? guilds fell just in VoA alone. The point here, is Truebox is no longer needed on that server. There are no arguments I can identify that justify keeping it on, on that server.

    That brings me to my last piece, Miragul. This will be the first TLP(non event server) starting later in the game. Level 85, HoT, Hero chars. That is awesome. It gives those that haven't had a lot of exposure to the later EQ expansions to try things out since you start with a geared character, and will be able to immediately group with any character on the server even years later. This server starts in HoT, yes there are some zones like The Grounds that's an open zone and will be a popular zone right away for easy gear drops, but with the pick zone feature people will be able to space out. The same thing will be said for VoA as well, however I believe there is more instancing in VoA so it becomes even more of a moot point. The strains and struggles of the earlier expansions don't exist on these later expansions, so again, I find no justification to have Truebox code on a heroic server such as Miragul. I'm really struggling to see why they decided to keep Truebox on for this particular server. Attrition will set in faster, turn over rate will be higher due to the nature of what you start with, and instancing will be 95% of grouping very soon.

    Now, with all that said, if Miragul remains a Truebox server, I am 100% against having a non-Truebox server to follow if it's the same ruleset. By doing this you will cut the community of players who want to play the later expansions in half. This will hurt both servers, but Miragul will take the brunt of the damage since Truebox will be enabled. If it ends up being a fresh server starting in classic, then that as well does not make sense, as all the issues I outlined previously would be back in effect and the grieving/drama/trolls will be out in high volumes.

    Just because I <3 you all....tl;dr - If Miragul stays Truebox, i'm 100% against any Truebox servers for at least a couple years.
  8. Gootak New Member

    Glad there was a tl;dr there :D

    Since this is a discussion on a non-truebox server and not a miragul discussion.
    Non truebox starting in a good era for it. ie. GoD or OOW would be great or SoD for added mercs would be amazing even if you start at level 1 and build up into the merc progression quests later on even having them to start would be useful.

    FV rules don't phase me how ever it would add a unique spin on the server further to help the longevity of the server.

    Xp rate to be reasonable depending on Era. On par with Mangler at least. (Wouldn't expect GoD with live exp).
  9. MarttinPH Augur

    Truebox: Hell No
    Agent of Agents: Yes
    Launch Level: 85
    Launch Expansions: HoT
    Unlock Format: 2 Regardless of level increase or not
    Exp Rate: Super Hyper Fast
    Misc: N/A
  10. James Fumble New Member

    Yes, I would play 1-2 chars on a non-true box TLP server. Preferably with AoCs and starting in Luclin/PoP as level 1
  11. oldkracow Augur

    non-truebox but if you are going to open the gates at least have either a limit of boxes and enforce some rules when it comes to 3rd party tools.

    If you plan on doing zero-enforcement well then might as well not make a server.
    Chatoyan, Gana, Ghubuk and 1 other person like this.
  12. Machen Augur


    There are a whole lot of live players that have lived with zero enforcement on 3rd party tools for many years now. Some of them might try a TLP that has the same rules/non-rules regarding boxing that live does.
  13. Frogbert New Member

    I am not interested in progression servers, per se. However, I would log in/play to support a server that finally took a stand on Daybreak's terms of service, namely:

    You may not develop, share, or use any software, program, macro, or interface that modifies the game play in any way or that gives a user any kind of advantage over other end users, except as expressly authorized by Daybreak.

    https://www.daybreakgames.com/terms-of-service

    If you expressly authorize something, so be it; as of now, there is no express authorization for anything yet many openly post about their use of rule-breaking software (per your own definition). There is too much rampant flaunting of the rules (on all servers). Since the theoretical non-truebox server being discussed here is the only one for which a ruleset is not clearly defined, I would be interested in said non-truebox server if you as a company become interested in enforcing your terms of service.
    Chatoyan, Ghubuk and Yinla like this.
  14. Ghubuk Augur

    Only because have no choice if want to play and box. Guaranteed there are a ton of boxers that would love to see a boxable server that didnt allow 3rd party cheats on it.
  15. taliefer Augur

    the ONLY reason id be interested in a non truebox server is because you refuse to police the ones you have. people have found workarounds, and its glaringly obvious on Mangler with the mass box armies that rival what was seen on ragefire and lockjaw. but DBG doesnt do a thing about them.

    if you arent gonna police it, enforce, or fix it, get rid of it.

    that said, if you do release a new non truebox server, make it different enough. im actually getting tired of seeing new TLP every march that kills, or at least severely maims, the previous ones.
  16. Finchy Augur


    I mean they did give specifics on what you can and cannot use...

  17. Randomgamer Journeyman

    I would be interested in a non truebox server with a classic start. I know some are sick of classic but I just like that whole era.

    Just gonna throw this out there. Have you guys (DBG) ever thought of a premium TLP server?
    What I mean is a server that costs a little more to play on, but pays for GMs on it. I think that would help a lot with the problems the TLP's have with bot armies and such. I know this was brought up before, but I thought it was a good idea. ;)
  18. jeskola Augur

    Perfect, count me in
  19. riffy New Member

    Non True Box!
  20. Villana New Member


    One server too late. I have no idea who makes the stupid decisions at DBG, but making Miragul a Truebox has to be the worst decision EVER made in Everquest history. I'm tired of the devs refusing to listen and not reading feedback on these forums, BECAUSE IF YOU DID, MIRAGUL WOULD NOT BE TRUEBOX.

    Time for me to move on to another game, or just grow the hell up and quit gaming.
    Icaen likes this.

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