I stated it very clearly in my post that you quoted, but I will try to rephrase. You and others here have repeatedly stated that the problem is Rampage and how it's unfair that you get 1-shot by it and casters don't even get hit by it. I agree with that. My argument has not changed - something needs to be done about rampage directly. A solution that keeps people from getting 1-shotted by something they can't avoid and makes it more fair to all involved. Increasing mitigation of all the melee classes is just a huge bandaid that avoids the actual problem at hand and has a huge effect on other aspects of the game. I'm just repeating myself here. Every single thing I just said above has been typed in my previous responses to you. I'm glad to debate with you about the topic, but not when you're just picking at words and avoiding my responses.
This is to you Ragnard. Rampage is a huge issue, and yes it needs to be addressed by itself. I suggested an AA for Non-Tank Melee Range characters that reduces the damage of Rampage and Melee Range AoE attacks to a survivable and reasonable level. In addition to the Rampage issues there is also a serious issue that Rogue and Berserker characters have with MOLO of even level content. I'm not making the argument that they should be able to tank for a group, that they should be able to solo even level named mobs, or even that they should be able to take sustained damage in a raid. I simply want to be able to kill normal even level enemies with my J5 Healer on Reactive without risking death 95% of the time. Summary: 1) Rampage is a problem for Non-Tank Melee Range Characters and should be addressed independently of other issues. 2) Melee Range AoE damage can be a serious issue for Non-Tank Melee Range Characters and should also be addressed in a similar fashion to Rampage. 3) Non-Tank Melee Range Characters should never be able to take sustained Raid Boss damage. 4) Non-Tank Melee Range Characters should be able to MOLO even level non-named content and should be able to take 1v1 sustained damage from non-named even level content with a Healer Mercenary. 5) In a Raid, if a Caster is able to maintain a high sustained DPS without worrying about ever running out of mana while also not causing any strain to the raid healer due to them not taking any rampage damage, Non-Tank Melee Range Characters who have a sole purpose of DPS should be able to provide additional DPS to offset the added strain they bring to the raid. I feel that these are reasonable points.
I agree with you on almost everything completely. The only one I would want to have some discussion about is 4 and 5. 4) Maybe it's because a huge amount of my playtime was in the classic era and my "return" to the game was just in time to get my butt kicked all over underfoot (and love it) - but I'm not a fan of melee moloing current-content mobs for the most part. I know some casters can do it, but we know they aren't going to change that. So that said, let's just consider melee classes and tanks since we can make fair comparisons with classes that DO have to stand in melee range. My group geared SK (CoTF T1, 5k AAs) has a pretty tough time moloing mobs in T2+ RoF that are equal level (I didn't see trash equal level in shard's landing). It takes forever and my merc is out of mana very quickly. Put a player group with some buffs/debuffs around me and I'm unkillable. If we translate it so that melee DPS classes are able to molo with a high level of difficulty while doing much more DPS - what happens when we put them into a group with support and they gain all the benefits of the buffs/debuffs/heals/slows of players? They become pretty darn good tanks. Maybe not as good as the pure tanks, but good enough to tank pretty much anything and with the benefit of 3-5x the DPS those tanks put out. I wonder how the game dynamic would change when real tanks can't only be replaced by pets, but also any melee DPS class in group content. 5) I'm torn on this. Melee and casters are currently pretty unbalanced on burst and sustained DPS and I'd like to see melee come up a bit - but not to a point where they're putting casters in the same place casters are putting us right now. I'd rather see it become less risky to be a melee DPS.
4) The current fact is my HoT T2/VoA T1 group geared Rogue at level 92 is completely unable to molo Tired Farmers in Lunanyn and pretty much any even level content. This causes me to need to rely on others in order to complete my level 90 dailies. I can "barely" kill the light blue Wasps or Snakes in grounds 1v1 with my J5 Healer on Reactive and full Unity buffs. If a second comes in I need to escape and wait off my timer so I can try again.. otherwise I die horribly fast. 5) I would much rather see Rampage simply go away. It was an interesting mechanic back in the day.. but that in addition to Melee Range AoE spells DoT or otherwise cause my Rogue to be useless or dead in a fight. With these mechanics I simply can't do damage sustained or otherwise. I'd be perfectly fine with similar DPS as casters if we didn't add extra strain on the raid. If your choice is a character that does 30,000 damage and takes no damage or a character that does 30,000 damage and requires sustained healing in order to do it.. which would you take? If you only had one spot left which one would you leave out?.. That's my main concern. I just want to be on even footing. (Numbers are completely made up for example purposes)
Addressing the rampage problems addresses the molo problems. We're not asking to be group tanks, it's not unreasonable to want to be able to knock out merc/solo tasks in T1 of an expansion via moloing. For that matter it's not unreasonable for the top melee dps to expect to be on par with the top caster dps assuming equal ADPS and equally skilled players. Right now that's not even close.
4) When it comes to this, I agree that everyone should be able to complete some T1 content in the current expansion molo. My earlier proposition for this that wouldn't change the current balance between tanks and melee DPS (that I laid out in my previous reply) is to use "weak" conning mobs for mercenary/daily tasks in T1 zones. This solves the concerns that I outlined in my last response about group content tanking and also gives a solution for your concerns. 5) Yep, this is basically what I was saying. I'd like to see the DPS be more equal between ranged/melee (instead of the ranged being ahead... sense, this makes none) and I'd like to see the risk of having melee DPS go away for the most part - rampage would have to go away and you wouldn't have punishing mechanics like damage shields except in cases where it's a special mechanic of the fight to shut down one damage type or the other (sometimes casters can't nuke, sometimes melee can't attack, etc).
I am in top end raid gear and moloing is extremely risky, it becomes less risky when we fight mobs that are blue con and don't resist our stun but it's still exceptionally risky, damage spikes can be extreme. For comparison sake I'm in similar gear to phrett but perhaps he knows tricks I don't . Main issue is no slow on mobs means damage spikes can be very quick and brutal, usually too quick for a mercenary to adjust in time.
As cotf is a level 100 expansion mobs started at high blu/white/yellow, as the new tier gets released there won't be many white and below meaning moloing is less of an option, for zerks this expansion has compounded our moloing problems due to our stun being no use on mobs above 100 and having a high resist rate.
I read this as "Everyone should totally be able to MOLO except for Rogues and Berserkers. Nah, we should put in weaker mobs for you to go play with." Can you think of any other class that can't MOLO T1 content? Rangers and Bards have methods of killing enemies without being in Melee Range with them. Tank Classes may kill slowly and rely heavily on their healer merc, but they can take the hits. Casters can pretty much kill their enemies at range without too much if any difficulty at all. Healers can grab a tank merc and go to town. That leaves Monk, Berserker, and Rogue. If you ask me I find Monks to be a little more than a bit better off than Berserkers and Rogues and if you listen to most people Monks are normally able to handle T1 MOLO though with a little difficulty. Berserkers and Rogues though? We can't do damage at range, we can't heal, we can't take the hits in melee even with a J5 Healer on Reactive. Do you not see your suggestion as even the slightest bit unreasonable?
Half the time healers are better off with a wiz merc and healing them through it or chain rooting, it's kind of ridiculous.
From dev chat yesterday. Darkomen42: Elidroth. Is there any possible chance of survivability for melee being increased where we might be able to molo T1 mobs of an expansion? I'm raid geared and still get smoked if I try to tank entry level mobs in VoA/RoF. Elidroth SOE: EverQuest is at its heart a group-centric game. While some classes are fully capable of soloing or moloing, we don't set out to design content in order to enable that play style. Adding in additional mitigation or survivability in something we might consider but it would have to be done VERY carefully to ensure we're not creating another balance issue down the road. WarriorSheena: Are there plans to tune down the rampage damage of raid mobs or give melee some survivability against ramp? Elidroth SOE: WarriorSheena: Rampage and AOERampage is a delicate balance for sure. I don't think we'll really be altering the way we handle rampage damage, but AOE Rampage is certainly something we need to keep careful eye on.
You do Realize that with the tons and tons of immune to run speed mobs at least Rangers and most likely bards can not kill at ranged, and even mobs that we can kill at ranged our damage output for that is nothing to what we can do at melee.
Nothing from the irc chat made me think the devs are working on a solution for the rampage/ tanking issues of rogues/zerkers, extremely disappointing.
I am a t1 RoF raid geared rogue with every aa, and I can molo t4 RoF mobs reliably. Just me and my cleric merc with about half her aa;'s and just 2 pieces of gear I bought for her from Ethernere. My hps drop to about 35-40% on some rounds sure. No way I could handle 2 even with stunning my target and when that wears off mezzing the add with smokescreen. There's just too many seconds where both mobs would be DPSing me and the cleric to deal with an add. I can tank 2 in molo of t1 RoF mobs, though, by alternately keeping 1 mob stunned and mezzing the other when stun wears off.
[Mon Feb 24 23:23:24 2014] Commander Galenth slashes YOU for 14654 points of damage. (Wild Rampage) [Mon Feb 24 23:23:24 2014] Commander Galenth slashes YOU for 53523 points of damage. (Wild Rampage) [Mon Feb 24 23:23:24 2014] Commander Galenth slashes YOU for 13252 points of damage. (Wild Rampage) [Mon Feb 24 23:23:24 2014] Commander Galenth slashes YOU for 53523 points of damage. [Mon Feb 24 23:23:24 2014] You have been knocked unconscious! [Mon Feb 24 23:23:24 2014] You have been slain by Commander Galenth! From full health to dead in a single round, no possible defense, no time to react, nothing. Stupid random DT. Buffed, I am just 12k HP too short to withstand a single round of rampage. Seriously, I lost all faith in the devs' ability with their own design.
