September Patch Preview

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Aristo, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. Swiss Elder

    Pacify is still capped at even cons, snare and mez would still use fade(as much if not more than now) unless you're mezzing(I prefer to spend that song on a group buff etc) in camp or kiting until the group kills the other.

    So we're losing one splitting ability and having our fade which is used for almost every pull nerfed.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  2. Tribbious New Member

    Since Bard AOE Kite is not longer effective while a mob is moving, it only makes sense to increase the duration of charm and to eliminate the mana associated with it. They took one of the biggest things from us and gave us nothing.
  3. Kaeth New Member

    People are combining criticism of everyone else's fade with that of Bards. Along with lots of other stuff that also came much later than fading memories. The game wasn't suddenly transformed to EZ mode way back at lvl 62 (except when it comes to travel and PoK). On the contrary PoP, GoD, and OoW were really hardcode raiding expansions that were plenty difficult.
  4. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    As good a bard as you are, class abilities can't be balanced around incidentally high DPS parses and things like tanking a raid boss that one time. Anyone can tank raid bosses as long as they aren't getting one-rounded, and they have enough healing. Although we only have our own experiences to influence our opinions, this isn't about your or my playstyle - it's about the bard class as a whole. Classes have various abilities to defend themselves - enchanters have runes, monks have Impenetrable Discipline (longer reuse time), rangers have Cloak, all INT casters have a 75% Vie, and bards have... fade. Drastically increasing the mana cost is going to make the game a lot more dangerous for bards, especially for those that have recently died.

    Here's an update to the AE ramp damage taken by all classes on TDS raids (9 months of raid data):

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    Take a look at the highest damage taking classes. Without being able to fade on raid bosses, they will have nothing to do except die. These classes need a way to defend themselves - not to tank in group content and raids, but just to live through raids. Otherwise, please remember when tuning raid content that not everyone is as beefy as a tank, and can't handle those 40k+ AE rampage swings.

    As for bard mana regen, here's a graph of cleric & bard mana regen over time (since Luclin):

    [IMG]
    Although the mana cost of bard songs has remained relatively low, our ability to recover mana has not kept up over time. We have comparable mana pools to other classes, but the problem is what happens to a bard after they've died. A bard who dies will now have to wait 4 minutes to have enough mana for 1 fade. It takes one hour for a bard with max mana regen to regen 100k mana (what my bard has unbuffed). It takes two hours if they're playing Aria. As a comparison, monk Imitate Death has a 2 minute reuse. Cleric Divine Peace has a 3 minute reuse. Now that other classes can sustain fade more frequently than we can, bards absolutely need more mana regen to keep up with something that has quadrupled in cost, or the cost increase needs to be reconsidered.
    Schadenfreude, RPoo, Riou and 2 others like this.
  5. segap Augur

    Currently starting to go through all my various characters to figure out what I need to put back in to all the "Not Usable" hotkeys that point to AA that have been moved... Joy!
    Gialana and Motherlee like this.
  6. Swiss Elder

    If I want to get back home I use one of my many gate items. These people eating that exp loss and not caring instead of using a gate potion or one of the many many options now sound really made up.

    There is as much risk now as before except you can only fade about 20x before you're OOM which may sound like a lot but if you are killing fast 20 pulls can be less than 15 minutes assuming you only had to fade once a pull. I still don't see how using displacement to knock one a few yards out then tagging it is considered too easy when you could snare one then tag it(if they ever change immunes like they are claiming) or pacify and tag(if under 105) or just pull them all and wait for pathing to split then tag.

    In the end this doesn't make the game harder it just limits bard pulling options and makes us med more and less desired as the puller because of it. If they made FD use 5% mana per FD there would be so many people saying it was too much and those classes have better regen than we do.
  7. Tarvas Augur

    You would think that most competent pullers would have already had the area broken in before they hit their 10th pull.
  8. Blackhood Journeyman

    I suggest next expansion be entirely underwater and we'll 'fix' enduring breathe aa to take away exp for every 30seconds. Also pok will be removed altogether. I am now more creative than dbg, am I hired?
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Motherlee like this.
  9. Swiss Elder

    Too bad that goes out the window for instanced zones or questing where you are always moving somewhere new.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Motherlee like this.
  10. Tarvas Augur

    In which case you deal with the consequences playing that way and go slower. It is no different than people who give it their all on each mob and have to stop and med every 7 to 12 mobs. I understand people got use to easy mode pulling 24/7, but just like when swarming, headshot, HA changes happened people will adjust. This isn't the end of the world for bards or anyone else.
  11. Swiss Elder

    Playing what way? Everything but sitting camping one spot? Adding more mana to fade didn't make pulling harder it just makes me have to med when everyone else could keep pulling. You're comparing someone burning to someone having to split which is the only option for the group. Saying it was easy mode 24/7 to use fade is like saying FD is easy mode, it is our version. Fade wasn't over powered and needing nerfed, swarming was obviously messed up and if you notice all those changes happened fairly quickly not over a decade later.

    I never said it was the end of the world, it just sucks having to med when the rest of the group is full of mana and ready to go when any other pulling class would still be pulling. I'm still not sure why bard pulling was considered overpowered when it seemed pretty balanced with everyone else just each being different. We got multiple nerfs in this patch instead of just losing flings or having level caps on fade or losing invis based on proximity like everyone else.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  12. Fidde Lorekeeper

    Please put Gravity effects and fade back to there normal state.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  13. segap Augur


    You don't think it was a bit over powered that bards could pluck a named from one side of a zone and pull it to the other without worrying about all the mobs in between? While it wasn't something that was worth getting upset about, I also do not see any way to defend that ability existing.
  14. Poydras Augur

    in which case his post was right all along, in other words o_O
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  15. Tarvas Augur

    I just gave you an example of going out of mana in 7 to 12 mobs. You stated you could pull 20 mobs before being out. Not everyone is end game geared but I am pretty sure that those who live on the edge all the time run out at some point. Same deal with your pulling. Unless of course you group with people with unlimited mana and/or endurance in which case tell them to find a puller not completely dependent on fade for every pull.

    You could see it that way. Or you could see for what it is.
  16. Poydras Augur

    What I see is a person who doesn't appear to play a bard looking at the same partially-filled glass we are looking at and insisting half full is just as good as full. Bards have third rate dps and tanking ability and were given boosted pulling ability as an easy alternative to giving them something that steps on another class (well except for monks, who are already a dps class too). Fade doesn't allow bards to do more damage. It doesn't allow them to kill without taking any damage. Fade is something to replace nothing. Making it worse makes bards' primary ability worse. You are missing the empty part of the glass.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Motherlee like this.
  17. Motherlee Augur

    See, this is your and DBG management's error! Hard core, dedicated people will adjust. EVERY SINGLE NERF causes people to go find something else to do. Without company, without people to play with, half again will leave.

    I really fail to understand what management school teaches that it's a good idea to anger your customers on a regular basis!

    Turn out the lights when you leave, Tarvas.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  18. Tarvas Augur

    A bard's primary ability is to do what? Pull? I sincerely hope that is not what you are saying.

    Heh, I find this part of the post funny. I really think you might want think objectively about fade and what it allows people to do in game and how it limits the developers options for new content. And if I have to turn off the lights over this nerf then I will gladly do it. At the very least it will finally give all you doom and gloom people some satisfaction to finally be right after saying it for the past 16 years and I will be happy for you.
  19. Motherlee Augur

    Give me a break! I saw a bard pull the Chardok King to zoneline in 2004!
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  20. Motherlee Augur

    "Minimum viable population (MVP) is a lower bound on the population of a species, such that it can survive in the wild." Every person who says he's quitting and does, represents 10 people who just stop logging in.

    There will be no sudden threshold where everyone leaves. You're going to be sad and pathetic like the people who still play Ultima Online.

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