September Patch Preview

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Aristo, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. Kaeth New Member

    Ragefire just beat Kunark. Funny as that statement sounds.They're a year and a half away I suppose. Lockjock will be along a lot later, but then spend a lot longer slogging through those expansions. And there's talk of a new progression server coming along too.

    Not sure what your point was though. That the nerfs weren't to benefit progression servers in some way? I would think not. On the contrary perhaps they did it early to try and head off the nostalgia drama over the change. But my point was simply that plenty of people will be doing plenty of raids dependent on pulling. Those servers are each the population equivalent of multiple servers too.
  2. Buler-il New Member

    I was literally just about to come back lol. I thought I'd check the September patch preview link on the launcher, see what that was about before I logged in. Thank you Daybreak for saving my wife from a husband spent enjoying his free time on a game again. Lol "Intended" from like 12 years ago, too rich.
    Motherlee likes this.
  3. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    So does the Ancestral Memories entry include Primal Guard, Taelosian Guard, Ancient Power, and Ancient Flames or will those still need to be clicked?
    I am assuming that due to the existence of the "Disable Item Abilities" that means that each time we get a better version of the clicky we have to disable and redo all of them? Or will is that just there for the Knowledge of the Past/Soothing Breath conflict with the other cases just keeping the better version. I.E. if I had Ancestral Memories I AA and clicked Ancestral Memories III would the AA auto upgrade to III or would I have to disable Item Abilities and redo all of clickies?

    How does this work when it comes to buffs and debuffs which previously would not stack with various buffs in this list? Since these are now going to be passive AAs are they going to stack with those buffs which would previously overwrite or block these clickies?

    It is painfully obvious that no one on the Dev team has absolutely no comprehension at all regarding how Pulling ever was or for that matter how the actual game works; news flash yellow cons are our level +3 (has been for a good what 4-5+ years now?).

    Neither of these abilities had any impact on the state of pulling in the game. Pulling as a group/raid role and player skill was not killed or even impacted by Fade; Fade simply made Bards faster pullers. As for Hate's Attraction and Moving Mountains which you are suddenly calling Fling (where did that come from?), Pulling as a group role and skill was LONG dead before these were even an idea in anyone's head. It had absolutely nothing to do with these abilities at all; claiming otherwise is just a straight up lie.

    The changes you're making are not going to do anything other than make pulling more challenging, or even harder at all. What it is going to do is make it so that Monks and bards won't be asked to bring mobs to the group, or in the case of monks they won't even be asked to some groups since they will now have no pulling abilities that anyone else doesn't really have that make them any faster. FD pulling is pointless today because no one wants to wait for mobs to split themselves, ID is completely gutted. Maybe you guys should stop making stupid changes without actually consulting the playerbase. I mean why are you guys making huge changes like this for no real reason, other than so that you can make an artificial AA line or two that we all will now have to buy as well as you guys can be even lazier when you design zones and mob AIs.

    Honestly, why is it that you guys will go out of your Y^&**()&*() way to not piss off the Necro's by unilaterally changing their 1.5/2.0/2.5's Focus to have a cap on it to fix what every Dev says is an issue and many Necro's admit is one as well as being a reason why they have to use a 10+ year old weapon as their primary at all times; but you have no problem unilaterally changing not one but 2 abilities that will have an impact on every single class, but specifically 2-4 classes and all in just as negative of a way as the necro's change would them. The Epic Focus you devoted a whole portion of a Beta to resolving the problem only to drop the whole thing without making a single change to it; but this considerably more wide reaching change you just say this is coming in a week deal with it?

    Stop lying to yourselves and to all of us. You are not doing anything at all that will improve anything at all to do with pulling. You are greatly marginalizing the pulling abilities of what used to be the two or three premiere pulling classes back in the day in the favor of every other class in the game. If you actually cared at all about making pulling actually challenging and something that mattered in the game again, then you would have left these abilities alone and actually addressed the game design decisions which were actually the reason for Pulling having died over 10 years ago.

    Then (I forgot that instead of sticking with the original timeline they changed Kunark from what is originally was to next to nothing) they are six months from voting on getting Velious; then they have to unlock velious which will take a bit, then another 6 months before they can vote on unlocking Luclin, after which will take a good bit to unlock; and then another 6 months before they can unlock PoP, which will give Bards fade. I think it is safe to say they still are at least 2 years from unlocking Bard Fade, and like 4 from unlocking Imitate Death for Monks. Neither of which had any major impact on pulling style or skill; just on the speed at which pulls came.
    Swiss likes this.
  4. lagkills Augur

    I have to politely disagree. :p
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  5. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    >_< I just hate when I miss a typo. Probably changed how I was going to say it half way though, or went back and reworded it somewhat and missed it. Just need to know if I should blame it on the time of night or the whole self censor to ones own mistakes due to already knowing what you mean to say.
  6. Emarra Journeyman

    4 days and 18 pages of speculation and concern. Not one response from the dev team to clarify any of the questions asked...
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  7. Riou EQResource


    It does, they are the earlier ranks and final rank

    Disable Item Abilities I think is just to remove them you just get the new grant if you click a better item
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  8. Winnowyl Suffering is optional.

    Most of the concern involving raids isn't about pulling. It has nothing to do with pulling. It has everything to do with dps and tanks being able to fade after a rez and hit Rest. Everything to do with that cleric being able to fade off the ramps he picked up when the ramp tank went down. Everything to do with the monks and warriors being able to move that raid mob back where he's supposed to be, after the Wizard drew a bit too much aggro, and couldn't fade it off anymore.

    As raiders, we've all seen these things happen. We've all used our fades or flings for one of these reasons. I have nothing against making aggro management a thing again. No problem at all. I also firmly believe that dps are at least partially responsible for their own hp bars, and shouldn't blame the healers when they die, if they stood there like an idiot and ate wild ramps instead of backing out to wait for the heal. Darwin.

    But now, we get to..... return to the guild hall after we die, and hit Rest/Breather there? Sit like a lump, waiting to get endurance back before we banner back? Because no one is going to take a rez, if they can't get any endurance back. For the most part, as a rogue, I run out of endurance when I run out of hit points. Berserkers have a drain in their endurance pool. If I die, I need to hit Rest a couple of times, then can generally finish out the fight. Sometimes I'll need it again. Sometimes not. Berserkers don't even need to run out of hit points to need to recover endurance.

    So, since we can't use those anymore, when is the endurance regen on things like Paragon, and buffs like SE, Skin, etc going to be bumped? How much endurance regen is going in on the C line? When does Soothing Breath get an endurance regen component? How about the mod rods? At this point, once we die, we either get to sit in the guild hall, or take that rez and not even be able to perform to minimum standards. And again, Berserkers don't even need to die first.

    The sky isn't falling, and the game isn't going to die because of these changes. I'm not going to threaten to quit playing if it isn't changed. Not my style, and I'd be lying anyway.

    But some of these things are going to seriously bork the raiders, and REALLY need to be addressed. Yes, I can understand the desire to alter these things now, before the new expansion is released, if it's something that you want to make sure impacts the new raids.

    But seriously - stop breaking things that are older than some of your children, and just put a negation effect for those abilities in the zones/raids in the new expansion that you want to have impacted.

    You've figured out how to make anti-lev zones, without it stripping our lev. You've figured out how to reduce mana regen, without it stripping C and removing all other mana regen stuff. Figure this out too, without breaking everything you've already balanced us around. That's just stupid.
  9. Ghubuk Augur

    This is why I think it might be a good idea to tie the rest/breather to only being able to be used when you have a rez effect on you and disassociate it from being on aggro. I think this would allow it to be used for, what I feel, are the times it was meant to be used.
  10. Derd Augur

    Not to make people work hard , but has anyone actually raided with these changes? Maybe copied over and tried a raid? As far as grouping goes I don't see anything I won't be able to pull without a slightly more involved bit of care. I have no way of testing the raid /rest breather thing, but then again raids are so easy we're told I'm really surprised you die that often :p.. yes that was sarcasm.

    And it's the weekend, hopefully they are all at home resting and enjoying life and when they have comments they can add or answers to questions they'll post them when they come back to work. I'm surprised we still have so many people that think they should work seven days a week.
  11. Winnowyl Suffering is optional.


    That isn't going to help the zerkers at all tho. As I mentioned in my post - they don't have to die to run out of endurance. They run out all by themselves, with all the stuff they have to spam that eats it up. Monks and rogues don't have that problem. I'm not sure about Warriors. If their ability costs were brought in line, or their regen bumped, I could agree. Until one of those happens, and they stop pulling the plug on their endurance pools just to perform basic dps, then I can't agree.
  12. Ghubuk Augur

    I don't think that the rest/breather ability was ever meant to be used as a means to get endurance partway through a fight. I think it was meant to allow for melee to get endurance back after a death so they could more quickly get back into the fight.
    If there is truly an endurance shortage issue for any class, then that should be looked at as a separate issue to ensure that those classes can function as they are meant to.
  13. Winnowyl Suffering is optional.

    *nod* Like I said - if they were to address the issue for berserkers, I would agree.
  14. segap Augur


    After I die (rogue), I'm pretty much playing the fade/breather/disc game for the rest of the event. There's also the scenario that things are going bad and you die a second time with the timer still down on Breather.

    If it was meant to only get it back after death, the easy solution is to be rezed back at 25% and ditch Breather all together.

    The big problem is raids that are designed for us to fight the main target for a little bit and then switch to adds, then switch back. We're on the aggro list for the entire duration. Otherwise, we could wait until the current target dies, hit it, then move on.
  15. Makavien Augur

    After nerfing all these abilities to make plane of hate harder did you take a minute to think about the plane of hate that exists now isn't even the same plane of hate that was hard to pull ?

    And I will mention something else I mentioned in the test patch thread -



    Is Rage of the forsaken and bold attacks still going to even out to the same hate amount it produced before and why is the duration being reduced instead of just evening out the hate amount more ?

    Warriors should be able to position npcs at will if we do it properly why not up the grasp level so we can do part of our job on most raid named npc? This skill really separates the great warriors from the ones hitting as few buttons as possible.

    We normally do not use forceful attraction so that change is not a big difference.

    We were one of the first classes to get positioning tools which is one of the cool not so known ways of controlling a fight as a warrior. Warlord's Grasp is not used for any useful type of pulling any different than shooting an arrow at the npc.

    We also really need our fade to work so we can hit rest when we get rezzed and are instantly put on the hate list .

    The cost for rest should be removed on the rest ability for us so, we don't have to wait or use an alliance elixer so we can cast it which I don't think you guys intended us to use a potion just to be able to cast rest just so we can continue doing our job of dying.


    Or we need another 2 minute refresh 15% endurance gain so we can get back in the fight as quickly as possible. Require this ability to make sure we are using it only when rezz effects are up so we can use it twice in 4 minutes after dying which will give us 30% total from it . Allowing us to cast our hate and our defensive abilities.

    Why are you guys nerfing warriors after a 5 year dry spell and just getting us up to par finally ?

    Right this moment when grouping or raiding I am having more fun then I even thought was possible 5 years ago.

    The intended amount on rage of the forsaken was 200% and was mistakenly made 2000%
    I see you put the intended amount wording in there which would be like trying to tell us sustainable means we have enough endurance to recast the ability every time its down instead of being able to keep the ability up the entire time like the no time to bleed nerf.

    But , besides that it was already nerfed in two ways # 1 was the nerf from 200% - 170%
    # 2 was the recast time was made longer it was only 1 minute to begin with

    So you are adding 2 more nerfs now
    #1 the uptime of the ability and #2 the aggro multiplyer for a second time

    Why not just delete it and say sorry warriors you must press 200 buttons per second to acheive being proficient.
    Mayfaire likes this.
  16. Gyurika Godofwar Augur

    Aside from raiding if anyone wants me to test anything on Test server let me know and I'll do so. I have every class at 100 and a 105 ranger, wizard & necro. I'll do whatever I can to help anyone out with info and can post here or PM it to you just let me know either via a reply here or a PM.
  17. Kaeth New Member

    Hrm I think my prediction of 1.5 years was reasonable. But again, what is your point in arguing timelines. We have plenty of time to find a new class to enjoy filling some other role? We'll all be dead in two years so the change doesn't matter?

    How can you say bard fade had no effect on pulling? It sure as heck had a monumental effect on bard pulling. I think perhaps all your analysis is slanted toward monks or other classes that can feign death. Yeah for them it just slows things down. Bards' however only only have access to the ranger variety of "feign death". Not that these changes will eliminate fade, but it is a pretty worrisome situation to be absorbing nerfs in the only escape skill you have.
  18. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Bard Fade had no impact on the challenge of pulling. It was still just as challenging for bards and every other class which pulled as it was before it was introduced; the only difference as I stated in all of my previous posts was that after the addition of Fade was that Bards could do it faster. This was due to Bards being able to reliably drop agro every time where as other classes it was all a matter of luck and waiting on the mobs to leave. Aside from Necros, SKs, Monks, Shamen, and Beastloards the other 11 classes are all losing this escape ability; so Bards are not alone in the loss of a close quarters escape method (they can still easily run half way across the zone to lose agro faster than anyone else).

    On that point, I love how the Dev's whole excuse for these nerfs are based on the lie that they want to make pulling 'matter' or be 'challenging' again; when with the exception of Bards, Monks, and SKs the rest of the classes only received a Fade for travel and agro control (mostly travel). The reuse on fade for most classes precludes it from being useful as a standard pulling tool. Expect to see a return to the days of unintended trains and the chief agro control tool being death or long periods of inactivity.
  19. Aurmoon Augur

    I'll just add one thought: I'm of the mindset that pulling should NOT be time consuming anymore. Back in the early EQ days fights lasted a long time. It could take you 30-60 seconds to kill a mob, in some cases multiple minutes if you were soloing or in a partial group. Taking 1-2 minutes to split a particularly difficult camp with FD made sense as it wasn't a lot of lost time relative to fighting, not to mention casters benefited from the med time.

    Sometime around SoD mobs got a mega dmg boost (to negate Complete Heal?) and killing became super quick. Fights sped up because mobs now take 25% or more of your total hp in 1 swing instead of 5%. When mobs die in under 15 seconds it no longer makes sense for someone to spend 1-2 minutes pulling. The ratio is way off. Same reason why necros had to be given quick dots --- fights are just that much shorter.
  20. Kaeth New Member

    Drop aggro faster than running all over creation or zoning (assuming it was even possible)? Ok I guess. Even faster still is probably just to die and get a rez. I played a bard on fippy and I think it would be more accurate to admit that fade does make pulling much easier for bards at least, as in night and day, propelling them from second-rate pullers to solid competition for the best. I'm not so sure that ranking will remain given that they apparently left feign death untouched. So I guess your argument is about not achieving what the devs wanted, but my concern is about a massive monkey wrench into class balance and indeed my choice of what class I want to spend playing the next few years on the TLP servers.