Selo Truebox

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Pappasalt, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Pappasalt Augur

    Just silly at this point and pure stubbornness. I don't know of many players after por or even sof that would argue to keep truebox.

    Although it's something we're accustomed to on selo where we give feedback and get nothing. We're the red headed step child at this point lol.
  2. KimchiGoddess Augur

    Honestly the only reason I like rerolling classic every new TLP is because I always feel like I screwed myself over on the new servers. This time I feel like darkpaw screwed me over because I couldn't actively play on Aradune. Sure I'm playing on Rizlona but it's not exactly what I wanted. I want to find a TLP "forever server" eventually where I feel like I didn't screw myself over in the first week and I want to stick with it until the end. I don't know enough about the content past about 2008-2010 to be confident jumping into live servers and I would like to progress on a progression server to enjoy all content but with each new server a percentage of the player base moves on.

    I rolled on Selo but ended up being quickly left in the dust. I'd like to find a "home" as it were. I'm already feeling like I have to wait another year after the horrible launch we just had.
  3. Duality Augur

    Release the true-box! Gets hot enough in the summer as it is w/o having 5 pc's crankin!
    ForumBoss and KimchiGoddess like this.
  4. Duality Augur

    It'd be nice if they let us know what will happen when they reached live too. Phinny and Selo both hit ToV in February. Are we going to get the firiona or the vox treatment? For me it currently seems more worthwhile to play on live where you can rotate subs for j5/aa's and not have to be bound to multiple PCs. Selo xp is sick and can cap fast, but a month to enjoy the bigger expansions isn't much. At least drop the truebox on phin/selo and find a sweet spot for it to auto drop on the tlp's that follow.
    KimchiGoddess likes this.
  5. sieger Augur

    Yeah, from what I can tell basically the entirety of Faceless and CI are in favor of dropping Truebox, which no disrespect to the non-raiders on Selo, I would estimate our two guilds are probably 80%+ of the server active population.

    While I won't speak for Phinny I still have a good number of friends on that server and I don't know a single one who is opposed to dropping Truebox at this stage.

    I think this issue is actually worth looking at as a long term issue for TLPs in general, not just Selo and Phinny. I think that the view should shift to more that Truebox is a tool similar to MOTM, to correct for things that worked in 1999-2001 but just don't work well in a modern context. For example I actually did occasionally play a family member's character to buff/power level myself even back in Luclin and Planes of Power 18-19 years ago, but it was tedious and not something you'd do seriously. When I played on Ragefire and Lockjaw, obviously the technology and ability to box had gotten to the point that mass boxing in the earliest eras was distorting the game in ways most players didn't like (thus the demand for Truebox and the popularity of Truebox TLPs.)

    But I think just like we understand MOTM solves an era-specific problem, I think there should be more openness to viewing Truebox as being in that same vein, it solves an era specific problem. Clearly there's broad acceptance that Truebox isn't the best way to enjoy EverQuest when the entirety of EQ live is free box.

    For Phinny and Selo specifically, dropping Truebox now would not do a ton to be frank, these servers are in "terminal progression" and both will hit live relatively soon, and I don't think anything will attract large numbers of players to these servers. That's fine, what dropping Truebox would do is be a nice quality of life boost for the players and guilds still active on these servers.

    If we could roll back the clock to level 70 era when I know lots of TLPs (including Selo) start seeing bad attrition, I do genuinely think if Truebox hadn't been around we'd have seen more people stick around.
    Skuz, FranktheBank and ForumBoss like this.
  6. That0neguy Augur

    Would be nice if we could get a response as to why this hasn't been done yet.
    ForumBoss likes this.
  7. ForumBoss Augur

    I too play on Selos regularly in Faceless, and played on Phinigel well past the lvl 70 eras. It would be great if they removed Truebox - if only to help our AC bills and reduce ergonomic strain slightly for those sticking it out on these two servers.
  8. Machen New Member

    This is the entire point of removing truebox and not nearly as grievous as people think. 90% of the players on live (still the majority of eq servers) use this stuff. It will not result in box armies running wild on open world content. There just isn't a market for farming stuff with 7+ accounts when everyone can farm their own stuff.
    Alakshak and Skuz like this.
  9. Pappasalt Augur

    Perhaps we can get some type of response, at least a "we'll look into it?"
  10. Aegir Augur

    Yes! Please, remove truebox once Seeds of Destruction unlocks or similar.

    It makes no sense the point where Miragul, Selo and Phinigel is at atm and more servers will come to these eras as well.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Removing Truebox is going to get different answers depending on who you ask & more importantly, depending on which server they play on as some servers start having population related grouping issues sooner than others.

    I support the idea of removing Truebox on TLP after they have progressed beyond a "certain point".

    I don't think the game has any way to "dynamically" do anything with unlocks or features, so it cannot remove Truebox when active players drops below a threshold for a long enough time to trigger this and it would have to be done manually or at a set point / set expansion unlock.

    The "certain point" in my opinion was originally around SoD - to tie in with when Mercenaries are available anyway, but that's based on my experience of playing on Phinigel & having invested in 3 PC's to 3 box with which I had to do in order to catch up on my Berserker as I didn't start on Phinigel until GoD unlocked, but not everyone can or wants to do that.

    Therefore I would actually be in favour of removing Truebox on TLP once GoD unlocks to help future Berserkers who have to go through what I did (twice already), at least so long as DPG cannot or will not allow players to play BST/BER on TLP at the start - if those classes are in at the start of a TLP then I would say the Truebox should stay until TSS at the least.

    I would also allow Free to Play accounts once VoA unlocks, somewhat in line with when live servers went F2P.

    on a side-note:
    Merging Selo & Phinigel once they unlock ToV makes sense since at that point both will be live servers.
    Merging them into Miragul once Miragul hits live should also be considered.
    KimchiGoddess likes this.
  12. MBear Augur

    Many of the people posting in this thread about removing truebox are the same ones that don't want it on a server to begin with.
    The reported majority of players on a server wanting it removed later is probably the same as a majority of players on a server not wanting it there at server launch.
    One would have expected that all of these imaginary majorities of players would have played on Rizlona then and it would have been a much larger server than Aradune where boxing is restricted.

    I'm sure Daybreak has their reasons.
  13. RizlonaBoxer New Member

    I echo everything said by sieger here. Thinking of Truebox similiar to MOTM would be a much more sustainable and workable model for a TLP server. It would more accurately reflect the way that EQ itself progressed to the point that most people were boxing some number of characters.
  14. sieger Augur

    I can understand why you might think that Mbear, but it really doesn’t jive with the actual population on these servers. Most people I raid with on Selo are on their 2nd or 3rd Truebox TLP, I also personally leveled a character on Aradune. So whether I am for or against Truebox overall, I’ve willingly put a lot of time into Truebox TLPs. I think the broad early TLP community at this point is very passionate about Truebox and wouldn’t advocate for it being removed in that context. But the attrition on later era TLPs is significant. Selo had over 10 guilds still raiding in GoD, and it steadily declined every expansion after that until now it only has 2. Coirnav, Miragul, and Phinny also all have only a handful of guilds left. So the idea there is a huge silent majority of pro-truebox players on these servers I think is pretty questionable, and I think a lot of us wouldn’t mind an in game vote, or even a forum based survey or something to demonstrate this.

    Also to be frank I think this would be a net benefit for Darkpaw as I suspect you’d have a modest uptick in subbed accounts on these older / more progressed TLPs. I can understand especially from people who really don’t play after level 65-70 skepticism and it’s easy to get bogged down in the early TLP boxer/anti-boxer drama, but that really isn’t the culture on later era TLPs. Most stuff is instanced, even lots of the group content, people tend to be much more chill and less conflict prone. The world is big and the population is smaller, I’d say for most later era TLP players boxing just isn’t a scary thing.

    I would be interested to know if there are “mechanical” barriers to dropping Truebox, i.e. maybe it isn’t just a setting flag and can’t be easily changed. If it’s just a general aversion to changing the published rules of the server, I think we’re all understanding that you shouldn’t mess with those rules too much and only for really good reasons. But I feel like the team at Darkpaw isn’t generally afraid to make changes that they view as being better for the health of the game, and I think this falls into that mindset, similar to the faster flagging code that went in for things like Underfoot / HoT / VoA.
    Skuz likes this.
  15. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    The gameplay and server experience changes greatly as populations decline and the game becomes faster paced, more linear progression and achievement oriented.

    The people asking for it to be removed on late era servers are the ones who don't want to abandon their character on their current server and need to reroll entirely to play on a server without truebox. They just want to pay for an additional account or two and more reliably be able to complete linear content at their own pace offered on their current servers with the newer expansions.

    Trying to have a single ruleset stay constant on a server that crosses all 26 everquest expansions is very crude. They could more elegantly have the ruleset morph as expansions unlock to better reflect and emulate the experience live players experienced in those expansions.

    For example by the time SoD was out with mercenaries, boxing was fairly commonplace. There is no reason to keep truebox in on servers once SoD unlocks.

    By the time CoTF unlocks, free to play options were available on live servers. TLP servers should also have the same free to play options once CoTF unlocks.
    Skuz likes this.
  16. Tierdal Augur

    People aren't talking about classic/Rizlona. They are talking about GOD+ expansions where attrition kills most/all TLPs.
  17. dreamweaver Community Manager

    Just a general reminder, bumping threads is against the rules.
  18. Tweakfour17 Augur

    The request for truebox removal after a certain point has nothing to do with Aradune or Rizlona, the point is lots of people have old characters they have invested heavily in over the years, rare drops, tradeskills, etc and they would like the option to fill in gaps due to attrition and continue to see the expansions post PoP. If people only cared about Classic->PoP then it wouldn't matter, however the people who rabidly defend truebox also primarily seem to be the ones who TLP hop every year either because they are scared of the unknown and want to stay where its familiar or they are professional krono farmers and know truebox helps give them an edge or for whatever other reason you can think of, its the ones who want to stick to a server and see it out that truebox eventually starts to encumber.
  19. HoodenShuklak Augur

    The precise argument being made here is that Truebox serves a solid purpose but as EQ TLP evolves it mimics EQ live in that attrition takes an inevitable toll and the gameplay evolves.

    Now, by no means am I speaking for the majority of players and everyone else in this thread probably is not proclaiming to either. But what they are is voicing an idea to change rules as a server changes. I even asked for contrary viewpoints, of which we haven't really seen much, so by all means if you have a counterpoint then bring it up. Now is a great opportunity.

    The point that you do bring up regarding that Rizlona should have been more popular is focusing on a point that the players in this thread are simply not trying to make. Everyone in this thread arguing that truebox can fade away after X expac is currently playing on a mature TLP because they want to see later EQ. In short, they aren't trying to have any effect at all on new or future early expansion TLP's.
    Skuz likes this.
  20. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    I cannot imagine a better use of resources than this, and far sooner than SoD.