Selo 2.0 in 2021

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by a_librarian, Oct 8, 2020.

  1. Rasper Helpdesk The Original Helpdesk

    The idea being all content for a specific level range opens at the same time with 2.5 months (10 weeks) to consume whatever part of it you want.

    When 60 hits you can get your Kunark epics, ignore VP key mess, get a little NToV candy land while farming for VT keys, then sit on Vex Thal till next unlock.

    When 65 hits you can blitz to Time for quick gear, maybe some group LDoN for augs, and then work through GoD progression

    When 70 hits you knock out Trials fast to get some easy Anguish loot and orbs for 2.0s, mostly ignore DoN and PoR, and then work through Demiplane.

    When 75 hits you do TSS for weapons and augs then TBS for candyland

    When 80 hits you have 10 weeks to farm enough MMM to get into Crystallos and max out your gear

    With 85 you blitz through SoD progression up to Korafax, then dabble in Underfoot while getting keys for Citadel. Get Citadel on farm while you move up to Convorteum

    The idea being that during the kinda bleh/small parts (ldon, don, por, tbs) you have plenty of options on what content to do and what to skip. It is up to your guild to decide on best bang for the buck and how to get the most out of your 10 weeks before the next level jump.

    Would need to check on when Plane of Power spells become sold in PoK though, think they show up with Gates currently, and if PoP-GoD all opened together they would be available instantly.
    Mithra and That0neguy like this.
  2. Hateseeker Augur

    I cant do classic thru PoP again so the server may as well not exist til it gets past there (for me).

    And some need to be skipped like LDON, LOY, POR, and of course, this would be the time for that all trade loot (FV) TLP. and it makes sense too.
  3. FranktheBank Augur

    2 months per expac is too long for a "Selo" type server. It actually doesn't change much from the mangler-type schedule. It just seems like it does because all of you people that keep rerolling classic-PoP. After PoP, It's less than half the expacs that would be different.

    2 Months is probably better for a normal server. Selo is an accelerated server in which people understand they would be disadvantaged. I think if they were to do anoter accelerated server, to make it successful they would have to [be able to] alter a few different things. Like some flagging req/drops and some loot amounts. I dont know that I would ever recommend half lockouts again.

    The biggest selling point to me, as someone who has been on Selo from Day 1, is that it was a 2 year vs 5 year committment. Some side benefits of 1 month locks is that expacs like DoN, PoR, TBS, etc only last 1 month. You also get to leave expacs like GoD, UF, etc on a high note. UF was (so far) my absolute #1 expac so far and its not even close. It was a 5 week expac and I probably could have easily done another 4 weeks. But leaving it before it got real stale was absolutely perfect.
    That0neguy, theonepercent and Foaming like this.
  4. Thez69 Elder

    the single best thing they can do for a selo 2.0 server is release it on its own

    If you release it alongside phinny 5.0 forget it, it'll be doomed to low pop from the start like selo 1.0
    Foaming and That0neguy like this.
  5. vylo Augur

    Still on selo and the speed still seems good. Honestly feels a bit slow for some expacs, which causes a lot of folks to not show up to raids later on, especially in the more lackluster ones.

    If they do another one, they need to speed up the lvl 70 era a bit. DoN has little content, and if anyone actually enjoys PoR, they probably also like hawaiian pizza and other terrible things :p. shaving 2 weeks of DoN and PoR would probably help retention.
  6. Rage Lorekeeper

    They could also just do a TSS launch server to skip the level 70 problem. Its a natural expansion for a launch since it has zones to level 1-75 in. They might be reluctant to do a later era launch after miragul flopped though.
  7. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Tss unlocked at start with no truebox could work.

    Miragul probably flopped mainly because of Truebox.

    OTOH maybe the audience for 85+ EverQuest is so small as so many oldsckool players are simply not comfortable with how macro-driven / keybind driven the later game actually is - all those abilities make a lot of older players feel really inadequate & out of their depth & that scares players off.

    If not that then maybe they simply don't want to go beyond their "comfort expansion" i.e. they may have fond memories of the game up until a certain pre HoT expansion but going beyond that would take them out of the era they are familiar with & felt strong in & that makes them anxious.

    Eq is a game that basically reinforces the notion that knowledge is power, all the aa & extra abilities mean very little if the player has little or no familiarity with them & little to no knowledge of them - taking the time to learn them & figure out how best to use them - puts players who consider themselves EQ knowledgeable really out of their depth, add to that everyone is getting older & the older most people get the less they enjoy having to learn new things, they like familiarity.
  8. sieger Augur

    Yeah, the decision to make Miragul truebox was baffling considering the server launched at level 85 with mercenaries. Like the whole existence of mercenaries was a tacit admission many years ago that the direction of the game eventually more or less mandates boxing. Most all players on live box to some degree, the issues that caused so much drama on Ragefire/Lockjaw 5 years ago simply do not exist in EQ of this era, and the obstinance and baseline ignorance of the community involved in the decisions behind something like having truebox on Miragil is shocking. The decision to not treat Truebox akin to MOTM (something that is phased out after the eras in which it is no longer necessary), is another recurring piece of bad decision making around TLPs.

    Selo players kinda wonder this too, like those of us still going on Selo rate a few of the later expansions as literally some of the best EQ any of us have played--Underfoot and VoA being real stand outs. But a few others like RoF, SoD, and SoF are actually quite good as well. But it may just be that you have two types of players: those who want to just do classic through PoP over and over (maybe with a splash of GoD), and those who want to play live EQ, and the people interested in anything else are just too small a group of people.

    Early TLP and its popularity is heavily reliant on nostalgia, and I think it's hard to generate interest in eras of EQ most "original era" players never saw.
    Skuz likes this.
  9. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Good points there, I too have been very much enjoying the later era expansions, TBM was bad, it had problems due to the scaling issues that made it way worse than it should have been while EoK was a particularly good one, but RoS so far has tested my patience and I'm not enjoying it quite as much as I did EoK - I feel like it is less accessible, you hit the first zone & its a bit of a face meets wall moment, almost no ramp up in the early zones so you kinda feel like you needed to be 110 already to start playing in it.

    After a 7 year hiatus from EQ (I quit just prior to SoD launching & returned to live for a few months before I then went to Ragefire (just prior to kunark unlocking sometime in 2015) I too came back to a game I barely recognised and it took me a good week of feeling overwhelmed & inadequate before then taking some time to acclimatise, reading up on abilities, testing them out & some trial & error on 4 characters with all the new abilities but eventually my live 4 box setup was feeling natural, then I had some old buddies get in touch so I tried the TLP thing.

    The Nostalgia thing is real, I get a bit annoyed when I hear players use the old excuse that EQ after PoP is garbage because that just isn't true, but people like what they like I guess & some really are happier recycling classic to PoP rather than trying something they hadn't played through previously.

    Maybe after a few cycles of the TLP they'll eventually grow bored of the classic to PoP thing & try sticking around a bit longer.
  10. vylo Augur

    I find it ironic that many say EQ is garbage after PoP. PoP was the start of raids actually being fun IMO. The later expacs have mostly been a blast. p99 era raids are boring AF to me. While I had fun in WoW for a while, I wish I had come back to EQ during warlords, maybe as early as Cata. I feel like I missed out on some good times.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. Rage Lorekeeper

    I agree that a lot of EQ is about knowledge and a lot of players would rather stay in the eras they are knowledgeable about but doing a HoT start was always going to be a rough transition for TLP players, a TSS start would be a lot less overwhelming then the HoT start, most players have played till at least 65 if not 70 so you aren't starting with that many new abilities. Then people can learn the new abilities as they are released each expansion.
    Skuz likes this.
  12. sieger Augur

    I think there's multiple things that lead to this mindset:
    • Lots of players just vaguely remember getting tired of the game some time after PoP, and old memories die hard
    • Lots of the TLP cycler players start getting really bored by PoP and LDoN being the next expansion is a good incentive to quit playing, thus reinforcing the narrative
    • GoD was (correctly) viewed as very bad when it was originally released, you can even find interviews with old SOE team members talking about the problems that plagued that expansion's release. Many people still assume this to be true.
    • The ones who are willing to see what it's really like after PoP, who make it to GoD, usually love it because GoD is actually a very good expansion in its modern TLP form. But then they are subjected to what by any measure in my mind, is the worst four expansion stretch on any TLP: Omens-->Dragons of Norrath-->Depths of Darkhollow-->Prophecy of Ro. This is no trivial time to survive on a TLP, and it will often feel like the more you stick with it the more you are rewarded with poor content and multiple baffling and unpleasant game design choices made in the early to mid 2000s. Things start to get brighter with TSS, but it's almost a year at level 70 to get to that. This sort of cements in many of the players willing to try to tough it out, that post-PoP is trash, and they quit some time here and never find out what else is on offer.
    • Curious TLPers will sometimes jump onto later era TLP or live, maybe grab a heroic character, and spend a few weeks trying to get up to speed. This isn't a forgiving or easy experience, and without a lot of help feels bad, thus reinforcing in their minds that newer EQ = bad.
    Skuz likes this.
  13. Trevalon Augur

    Selo Server but with 8 Week Expansions and 1 week DZ Lockouts = perfect server IMO.

    Obviously Post GoD alot of this doesn't matter, but were not talking post GoD were talking Classic > PoP.

    I wouldn't be against a Kunark start, or even a Luclin start again too.
  14. FranktheBank Augur

    That's strange to hear because I am actually enjoying TBM a fair bit.

    I'm confused by the wording here. So you just want accelerated XP/rares/etc but not an accelerated expac launch?

    To add on to sieger and skuz, I think there is wayyy too much importance put on getting in at the start of a TLP. You see threads 2-3 weeks after Aradune launch asking "is it too late?" Or even people miss the first week of an expansion and they quit entirely. I think it's just a silly mentality that people have. They believe they are gonna reroll on a new TLP and THIS time they'll stick it out.

    It's funny because catching up in the latter eras is just so much easier than it is in the first 10 expacs.
    Foaming and Duality like this.
  15. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    It is fun for a raid-geared group of mains with a solid tank.

    Try boxing it as a group geared trio using a merc tank, the kind of group it was originally working pretty well for before DPG went & borked it with the scaling let me know how many resses you need trying that, Prathun fixed the "kills-any-TDS-raid-geared-tank-in-one-shot" spell damage before he departed from the team but left the higher mob levels, higher hp & higher melee tables in, they were going to get done in months following teh spell changes but still haven't been.

    Good points there, and I agree with your take on them, certainly see that happen a fair bit.
    I think that these people explain why stock markets crash, humans are very much fickle creatures & their confidence levels drive much of their decision making, bold players do whatever the f**k they want, while anxious ones constantly seek reassurances as they lack confidence even in their own decision making abilities, so they ask things like "is this a good server?" "should I play here" "what is the best class" a lot of highly subjective questions for which the only real answer is "stop pu**y-footing around & just do it so you find out for yourself!"
  16. Duality Augur

    I'm liking TBS also, the only problem is capping xp out before even half of the progression is done. This is why I generally don't play on selo during xp bonuses. I do like some of the more raid style group missions, but some to seem to be way overkill for a group force. I haven't attempted Grummus! yet (the kill 4 at once when each of them can one shot 75% of your health.) May need to outsource that one, although I think I can still do it without a tank with a planned AA burn, runes, clickies, etc. I'm probably just doing alts from here on out until EoK anyway now since fellowship doesn't share when you're capped, and burning fireworks so you can seems pointless.

    I think the get to server early mentality is about finding the right guild. If you're not already in a classic-PoP dejavu we beat everyone first guild, they generally fill up pretty fast. If i'm not mistaken, FC never had to do any recruiting, but may have had to do with having a 4-split raid force from the beginning so attrition didn't affect them in the long game. I never cared for the split raids as the last time I raided they weren't even close to being balanced and ended up getting stuck in the recruiting officer led raids.

    But, hey, maybe people just like the game of having to med for 20min every hour of solid xp.
  17. Rasper Helpdesk The Original Helpdesk

    The differences in some mobs is TBM is staggering. You'll go from a trash mob that just melts, then another with 4x the hp. Some rares/bosses are a joke, others just obliterate anything in their path. Fully geared and aa tank merc routinely slaughtered, but my air pet just kinda laughs at it.
    Skuz likes this.
  18. Rage Lorekeeper

    I agree its been very easy for people to catch up with raid gear and AAs on Selo when you get to max level, but i think leveling up to max is hard for people who don't box or get a PL.

    Even back around SoF/SoD its quite a big commitment to level 1-80/85 especially solo. I think some sort of exp boost based on how far from the level cap you are, tapering down to regular exp when you get within 5 levels of the cap would help. There's a similar system for AAs already so hopefully it would be easy to implement. It seems more realistic then them adding more levels of heroic characters.

    Inherently servers are going to lose population over time. Sometimes due to in game stuff, often due to RL getting in the way. No changes to the unlock schedule is going to completely remove that. Anything they can do to encourage people to come back after a prolonged break or to join servers later on would help.
    Skuz likes this.
  19. Accipiter Old Timer

    True. Most of the time you know what those high HP mobs are but they are still a pain. As for the named, the HA named are much harder than the open world named.
    Skuz likes this.
  20. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Two of the nastiest HA bosses are in one of the earliest missions "defenders of the faith" here is when the higher hp & damage tables are particularly brutal as Xhut Adan has what seems like 100% strikethrough and Kavilis Adan is not quite but almost as brutal either can kill TDS raid geared tanks if the healer isn't 100% on the ball. Add to that the need to tackle / kill the advancing mobs before they reach the npcs from both sides of the dais and this is hard for any non-raid geared group and all but impossible for any boxer that doesn't have some 3rd party automation help.

    I hope the planned fixes go in before more TLP are impacted.