ANY group? just what is the killspeed, gear, and as count of this "any" group trouncing directly into tov? How long have they been gone? I mean, an expansion is intended to be played on the previous expansion or twos aas, not 5,6,7 expansions back plus the tiny autogrants(I got like...200 or so, maybe up to 500 autogrants out of the entire deal myself on top of my RoF maxed aas. Out of 50k(30kmissing). Now, I haven't tried going out to ToV to kill with 1-2 toons, and see the killspeed there, but in tov t1 gear I took my group to TBL(which I know was tuned badly, but should be comparable to ToV I'd guess, not harder) and the killrate was excruciating. All I went to do was work progression to try to farm some posmoke collectibles, I quit after the first quest(kill 5 or 6 mobs) I understand the xp per kill is phenomenal, at least in tov, but I wasn't testing that. The kill rate was just painful, so much so that even at 2 aas per mob, there's not a chance I could do 80 aas in an hour without potions. Is ToV that much easier? Or are you basing your assumptions off people that have been here the entire time, not the returnees who are the subject of the request.