Save Time and Players: No More Rank Buffs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Ninelder, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Tappin Augur

    The focus part of many buffs are maxed out with lower ranks. No one is going to notice if you slip them an RK. II buff or even RK. I in these cases.

    The DPS uptick from RK. III spells is noticable for most classes in the parse. You would be silly to get RK. III buff over a DPS, or heal.

    We really do not need different ranks of most buffs - it just adds to confusion and waste time.
  2. Bigstomp Augur

    Casters get (most of) their upgrades from spells.
    Melee need weapons.
    Buffers get an annoyance at expansion launch.

    I'd like for there to be a bigger gap between Rk 1, 2, 3 non-buff spells.

    I agree with the op in the case of buffs:
    Make the buff spells 1 rank so anyone can overwrite anyone.
  3. Ninelder Augur

    This was explained in the first post:
    I have not gone back and forth at all, except to reiterate statements you seem incapable of comprehending.. Perhaps ask someone in RL to explain it to you. Everyone else knows exactly what I am talking about.

    Its not just vie, its every rune cast by an enchanter.
    Its the protector buff used by every paladin.
    Its the vie like proc from your adrenaline line of heals.
    Its every HoT that any cleric or shaman casts.
    etc.etc.etc.
    So you see, Its a heckuva lot more than 100k.

    But even taking your extremely narrow-minded piecemeal point of view its a lot more than an 8k difference, with just this one buff.
    If a toon has 1hp left on their vie rank 3 it blocks over 60k worth of damage mitigation from a cleric that only has rank 1 or 2 of the same spell.

    To give this a more simple comparison that you might be able to understand: Imagine if a priest casting a higher rank heal on you or the tank or whoever blocked any lower rank heal from landing on that same person for any amount of time.

    You could also compare this with DPS:A wizard casting a rank 3 Ethereal on a mob would then make the mob immune to all damage from rank 1 or 2 versions of the same spell. Can you comprehend that?

    I have had more DKP than anyone else in my guild for like a decade now. Your attempted ad hominem dig does not apply. The only reward I will reap from this fix is a better gaming environment.

    I understand these forums have a lot of trolls that view normal peoples reasonable well-thought-out requests as some kind of threat. They are afraid this will take up dev/coder time that they would rather be spent on the "insert-class-issue" that they think is more important.

    BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE...

    Fixing this issue would free up dev/coder time.

    The devs and coders will be able to accomplish more by doing less!

    Then, they can use that extra time to pander to you on that housing issue you believe is ruining the game more than real issues that are actually ruining the game...
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  4. Liljit Augur

    RK 1 or 2 would always be blocked by a RK 3 as it’s been for literally years of EQ gameplay...whether there’s 1 hp or the full rune left.

    That was a lot of text to say: “give me what I want because I said it over and over while insulting others!”
  5. Horyuken Augur

    Anyone who doesn't understand what the OP is trying to convey is not a buffing class. They're exactly what he has described, people who afk till they here afk check on their wireless headsets and come back to push buttons and get the raid chest~

    The 3 ranks of buffs ARE a waste and should consist of one spell. Most spells with a duration over 10 minutes this should apply to.

    Ah yes EQ! lets keep it the same every expansion because that's the way it's been, same raids, same AA, same spells...can I have my 10 raid currency for keeping balance!
    Ninelder likes this.
  6. Lianeb Augur

    I don’t know what that is!!
    My raid hates me
  7. Ninelder Augur

    I should not have been condescending, I just did not find your counter-arguments well thought-out, on target, or actually addressing(pro or con;) the effects of fixing this bad system.

    I also do not accept, "It's fine cause its been that way for years;" as an answer to... anything. Tradition? Seriously? Why not add "Natural law," or "Divine Providence."

    Try using that argument anywhere, to justify anything. Sure it works in the Midwest to justify wife-beating, sodomy laws, racial profiling and old dudes marrying their 6 year old sister. Doesn't make it right. Did you want to be lumped in with them?

    I mean you might, but I would like to think that most people playing this "D&D-like game" have a branching ancestry. So lets give you the benefit of the doubt. Did you misspeak?
  8. Allayna Augur

    So in your original post you ask to remove ranked buffs only for 3 “reasons”....2 of which are not alleviated by your suggested solution.

    Even in your half attempt at an apology you insult your counter-argument opposition, a true sign of a failing argument.

    Your #1 reason for wanting to remove rank buffs, would not go away by removing rank buffs. A solution to constant buffing and re-buffing would be to suck less...I mean ask DBG to make buffs become shadow buffs. That would address your “reason” to get rid of ranked buffs.

    The vie issue seems like it should be a ticket item and not a whining post to revamp all buffing spells.

    The cleric drama makes me laugh, never met a cleric who didn’t have at least RK II of their buffs....

    What I get from all of your posts is that you have rank envy. I’m all for change if it makes sense, your arguments fall far short of “sense”.
    code-zero likes this.
  9. Tappin Augur


    The only reason we have ranked buffs is give players roughly around the same amount of upgrades. There isn’t really a noticeable difference between the buffs in most cases – certainly not worth the hassle
  10. Littlelegs Elder

    that's unkind.
    Sancus likes this.
  11. Ninelder Augur

    His counter-argument is a version of the Appeal to Law(Tradition) Fallacy; the same argument used to justify Jim Crow Laws and Apartheid. Your support of his position is questionable. Also, thin. You can google fallacies on the interwebz if you would like to learn what makes an argument "failing."

    This failed argument is a fallacy called an Ad Hominem Attack. Why didn't you just say "Git Gud?"

    I have also never seen a guild defeat all raid content in less than one minute, which is the duration of many Rank buffs and buff-procs. Many of these also go to your short duration buff window so you would have to defeat all current raid content without zoning...

    Wow, your guild must be really good if they can beat all current raid content in under one minute without zoning. It almost seems like you replied to a post without reading it first. Certainly without comprehending it.

    Vie is a buff, its has the exact same "rank-induced" problems as every other buff and every other proc buff.

    They are very lucky, perhaps you could tell us how your clerics got rank 2 buffs just for leveling like your healer merc did?
  12. Ninelder Augur

    Nukes, dots, and heals(non-HoT) do not block other players nukes, dots, and heals. I understand the rank system with these. EQ is a progression-based game, the rank system allows the devs to create things for people to "strive for" as they slowly increase their toon's power while sparing the devs from having to think of 3 different names for every spell. This part makes sense.

    The problem occurs when you have two different players of the exact same class grouping or raiding together. The one with the higher rank buffs and buff-like abilities completely blocks the capabilities of the ones with lower rank buffs and buff-like abilities.

    The analogy, to put it in terms melee could understand, would be if your monks had to stand in line to DPS the raid mob; because for no good reason whatsoever, the mob can only be pummeled by one monk at a time.
  13. Ninelder Augur

    I did say I would give him the benefit of the doubt. I want to assume he misspoke, but I can only take his words in the context they were written in.
  14. Allayna Augur

    Wow....you totally lost me @ "1 min duration rank buffs". But it's okay, you lost me again with the defeating raid content without zoning...

    You zone often to defeat your raid content?
    Your Brells, VoP, Haste, Assurance or Skin / Symbol only last 1 min? It must suck to have your raid survival rate if they do...

    So we're back to Vie. So you have literally given 1 example, repeatedly, for why every single class should have ranks of buffs no longer.

    Git gud.
  15. Allayna Augur


    ...you know what's not worth the hassle?

    Changes to:

    TL in combat
    Charming 10 year old namer content
    CoH/Charm/Rez related changes
    DoT damage credit changes that broke/fixed/broke/fixed over the last several patches

    Let's see some content developed....you know, for the current expansions. The eq community, and I see it in many posts, makes these concessions...it's too time consuming, the devs don't have the time, etc... so we should settle for less?
    code-zero and Havanap like this.
  16. Yinla Augur

    Which is a good reason to get rid of them, if there isn't a much difference just give us one rank and free up some of Aristo's time or increase the difference to make it worth getting the higher ranks.

    I'd also like to see an increase in rank 3 spell runes dropping from raids, rank 2s drop 1 per mission, raids should have the same ratio of spells to players and drop 9 rank 3s per event. The raids having a 4.5 day lockout should balance out the fact a rank 2 doesn't always drop from a chest.
  17. Cicelee Augur

    The failure of this thread is that it only goes half way with effort.

    Just get rid of all buffs. That will save players countless seconds of time and energy. No need to worry about whether Jimmy has better buffs than Susy, because neither of them have any.

    While we are at it, since john5 eloquently stated that raids are not hard... just get rid of gear ranks. OOO get rid of gear! We can all run around as equals on the playing field, using only our wits and guile and knowledge and problem solving and stuff to separate the best from the rest!

    Or we can just leave things as is. Because, you know, it isn't broken...
    Ssdar, Sancus, Genoane and 2 others like this.
  18. Vumad Augur

    Two changes are really needed.

    Guards/runes need to check for remaining damage. Legion has a fix % but a varied max hp shielding. Ranks need to check remaining shielding, and if the remaining Rk3 is less than the Rk1, then the rk 1 should over write it. Vie, legion, Glyph Spray, etc

    Heal over Times should not have ranks, since there is no way to address the overwrite issue,
    Unless They can both land on the player, with the Rk1 not healing until the Rk3 fades, otherwise I can't think of a viable solution.

    Having various ranks of the other buffs is just fine.

    On a parallel topic, I would love to be able to assign a buff to a slot with it only going into a random slot if the assigned slot is full. It'd be nice if I could just assign C to slot 40 or w/e in my buff window. It'd make it a lot easier to check my buffs.
  19. Qbert Augur

    The only thing I dislike about ranked buffs(/spells) is that the research doesn't keep up. RoF spells are the latest we can research, and that isn't even the last expansion with a level 100 cap. We should be able to research rank 2 spells that are one level cap lower.

    If the research option isn't going to exist, then I would be in favor of doing away with ranked spells altogether.
    Yinla likes this.
  20. AcemoneyFV Augur

    I agree, ranks for spells are silly. The difference from RK2 to 3 is very minimal and useless for so many spells. Only very few spells/discs benefit from being RK3.

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