Roshen, tell us more about your enforcement plans.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Hateseeker, May 6, 2015.

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  1. Teren_Kanan Elder


    This is EXACTLY how the Hardcore vs Casual relationship should work. I applaud you.
    Irbax_Smoo likes this.
  2. Fallfyres Augur

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    Sounds logical to me Vaclav. Demanding the devs tell us exactly what they are going to do and when is ... well, unreasonable and even immature. Its gonna be what its gonna be. The devs cannot 'make everything fair and equitable', nor should they since its supposed to be 'competitive' and based on history, is exactly what EQ is known for. I hear them saying they are going to watch and see, expect player guilds to work out a minimally accepted rotation and IF whatever DB's definition of 'out of hand' is breached, they will step in.

    We are paying players, and want access to content. We also know going in how that access is likely to be taken/gotten at the highest levels of EQ. There is not some correlation of fair distribution of every notable target, camp, individual squabble or unfair tactic utilized so that we can all have a nice lil outfit and weapons just like every other guy/gal in our class. Oh wait, that pretty much describes Defiant stuff eh? And even for those who somehow think they should have a guarantee of fair and equitable distribution of the goods, the company isn't going to show their hand right up front. o-0

    We all alternately screamed and begged for MOAR information, for DB to make decisions and tell us what this server is all about, what we can expect. They did that! Thats it. If/as they ask for more suggestions ie during Beta etc of course give those to them. But it is not the players ,right, somehow to micromanage every iota of the framework of this new Progression Server.

    Here it is. Wanna play it? Jump in. Have positive suggestions to improve it? Submit those. Wanna deal crap over every single pixel of playtime on DB's game? No.
  3. MBear Augur

    It is true, though, that people need a framework of rules and an expectation.
    Daybreak would be wise to say if they plan to enforce PnP or not.
    Irbax_Smoo likes this.
  4. Hateseeker Augur

    I don't actually want competition or contested mobs, I've been asking, along with many other players, for solutions that remove the toxic element, which Daybreak Gaming Company has declined to do.

    Given that refusal, there is still one more crucial piece of information that's needed. We need to either know that PnP will be enforced starting day 1 so that players can play accordingly, or that it won't be enforced at all so players can play accordingly.

    Otherwise, if they're going to wait 6 weeks to start reacting, by then even the "nice" players that haven't quit will have decided to fight for content in any way they can. See Jagarr's prisoner's dilemma post above.
    Irbax_Smoo likes this.
  5. Fallfyres Augur

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    Yup there are some very reasonable expectations from those who will be playing at the most competitive levels of Ragefire and hoping for a little more information or clarification is to be expected.

    That is not what some of the posts railing about equity on these forums are demanding though Hateseeker.
  6. Banai Augur

    As it was said before rotations will not work. People simple don't care and there isn't enough time for too many guilds to get them done.

    Someone suggested increased spawn times. Well that *could* work if it was done right but knowing that DB has already said they can not change things on this server without affecting live it really isn't even worth talking about.

    Honestly without DB changing spawn times I don't see any of these issues going away without instancing or them stepping in and enforcing some ruleset for raids. If they are in fact able to change spawn times then shorten them from 3 days to 2 and force the spawns between like 1pm-11pm (times negotiable to be fair to the EU players) server time. That way not every guild is forced to push for the same mobs as there would usually be more than 1 up at a time.
  7. Jamz Augur

    You guys are ridiculous if you think Daybreak is going to do something. The developers know its going to be a massacre, they know they are short staffed, they didn't implement anything to fix the situation. They aren't going to police it, it literally accomplished nothing last time they had 4-5 dedicated GMs on our server. NOTHING is going to fix the situation, you're either going to have to live with the socking/ksing/training thats going to occur or go find a new game to play.
    Irbax_Smoo likes this.
  8. Lilbadaz Journeyman

    I wouldn't mind playing on the new TLP server despite whatever happens with contested mobs, I would just try to have fun and not take things too seriously, I'd like to think of the TLP server being just a way to have fun on your time off and live what I missed when the game just started, but of course that's just me.
    MBear and Fallfyres like this.
  9. taliefer Augur

    even if the "best' guild on the server was willing to rotate, there will be simply too many guilds of people capable of killing all the raid content to rotate with. rotations with 3 or 4 guilds can work...when you get up to 10? not gonna happen.
    Aenoan, jagarr and Irbax_Smoo like this.
  10. Barton The Mischievous

    I am totally familiar with what has led to this discussion a lack of people being willing to share.
    I do not think petitions will be answered in an hour or anything close to that.
    Players then deciding to break the rules as well does not help as for me I will be obeying the rules and following community standards however if then people are breaking the rules and not sharing I will just obey the rules.

    The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the EverQuest Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

    There are cases where two or more groups wish to kill the same NPC or hunt in the same area. In these cases, the groups are required to compromise.

    Let's take a named mob I want to camp, and another group is there. I will ask nicely if they are almost done or if a may join the group and if these things do not work I will then inform them that we need to make a compromise and share the mob if we do not come to an agreement I will petition and then start taking turns on the mob even if they disagree as per the rules they are required to compromise. I will not however take the mob more than what is fair that is not Kill Stealing per the rules as all groups are required to compromise. When the GM shows up I will abide by their decision if needed I will then petition further up the chain of command if the GM intervention is not equitable.

    I can play the game by the rules and still get access to camps and mobs. The thing is everyone has to share and the faster most people that are going to play on the server agree to make that the standard that we all share, Then the less the GM's have to deal with a'hats when they do have to intervene
    Fallfyres and MBear like this.
  11. Barton The Mischievous

    Yes they can all they have to do is follow the rotation they won't want to and they likely will not but they could It is not impossible
  12. Mardy Augur


    It's impossible, because rotation doesn't fit the mindset of those that still enjoy contested raid content. Aside from that, you'll have to deal with gold farmers / RMT sellers that likely won't understand a word you're trying to say ingame. Raid targets will be dead before you can say "hello".
  13. Barton The Mischievous

    No it is not impossible.

    Impossible
    1
    a : incapable of being or of occurring

    Highly unlikely but not impossible.
  14. Hateseeker Augur

    1. We aren't disputing the text of the Play Nice Policy, and no one is disputing that players are unwilling to share; we are discussing what must be done if the GMs prove to be unable or unwilling to respond to incidents.

    2. You say "when the GM shows up"; OK, if they show up, then I guess you're good to go, and everything you say is what will happen. But to try and direct you to please address the actual topic of this thread, what will you do if they do not show up? Or...you know how they are now telling players to "re-acquire the item through gameplay"? What if they respond to say "Please continue your efforts to make arrangements with the other player"?

    Also, you say you will petition further up the chain of command if you believe the GM intervention is not equitable. If we already suspect that there won't be GMs available to respond in the first place, what kind of supervisor are you going to approach?

    I realize you're probably going to respond with assumptions that GMs WILL respond, but the topic of this thread is not what happens if they do respond, but what happens if they don't.
  15. Frenzic Augur

    This is a ridiculous argument. Daybreak should immediately ban anyone who uses cheats in the game, period. These kind of things should be met with swift and severe punishment. It's not an honest mistake to turn on a hack program, it's deliberate and needs to be dealt with.

    With that said, contesting raid content is not against the rules. Monopolizing content is not against the rules. We intend to contest every single spawn that we value. We will do so legally. We won't be training you while you have Nagafen at 20% life, we won't be exploiting mechanics to get into zones sooner. What we will be doing is having a presence at every boss spawn, leap frogging slow guilds and dps racing anyone who wishes to compete with us. If our attitude is not welcomed by Daybreak, they need to get with our leadership and make it known. We play hard, but we play fair.
  16. Dartaniun Augur

    The idea of casual vs hardcore has merit, but there's a point that I think people aren't seeing. With a long unlock between expansions, if everything in Kunark is dead and not going to spawn soon. You can bet your a$$ that the top guilds will be eyeing the classic raid targets too.

    This server is going to have to get to planes of power before top raid guilds ignore classic era raid targets
    MBear likes this.
  17. Barton The Mischievous

    I stated in my post what I would do I would take a fair share of the mobs and above it posted the policies/rules that allow that until the GM shows up. If he does not I will play and take mobs till I get tired and log off the sections in bold state that they have to compromise and are required to share period not only when a gm shows up but even before that. The rule is we have to share I am not sure why people do not get that a lot of us learned it in the sandboxes of our youth.

    Actually monopolizing content is against the rules

    Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

    o Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

    1. You may not steal kills.

    Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.


    DPS racing is kill stealing if I have engaged the mob or am about to engage the mob you are in violation of the rules period and should be banned
    MBear likes this.
  18. AntiGriefer Journeyman

    same thing here. And Will.
  19. jagarr Augur


    unfortunately it isn't the BEST that climb to the top, just the people with the most play time and the biggest zerg. naturally all of the folks with the most available play time guild up. it becomes a herd of warm bodies bootyclapping down every boss in seconds while the next best guilds struggle to bribe their officers into coming online with amazon gift cards for yet another weeknight of inevitable disappointment.

    every decent guild that isn't the top 1 or 2 superguilds becomes a feeder. the most active players from the lesser guilds eventually get tired of being beat to spawns and app the superguild. their numbers grow and the competition's numbers shrink.

    one of the two guilds actually killing eventually begins to edge the other one out, or one will suddenly split into factions and disband as grown men and women resort to high school drama in their never-ending quest to be the center of attention (a mediocre girl getting awarded loot/being promoted to Officer solely because they're female, somebody social engineering their way into the gbank and stealing it to RMT, raid leader throws a tantrum over nothing and disbands guild in a huff, etc.) and the cycle continues.

    once that happens, it's over. sure, some good players will get together and try to Fight the Powah, but it's futile. the uphill climb ends up not being worth it and goes nowhere since behind door #B is cruising to phats while watching Roseanne reruns with a spliff dangling out of your mouth, and we're left with One True Guild and a mostly empty server otherwise.

    without naming names, there is a server out there that is a perfect example of this running right now. you know who you be and you continue to do you, boo-boo. homeboy ain't mad atcha.

    tl;dr buckle up, everybody. unless you are independently wealthy/on disability and have the insane amount of play time required to play at that level, don't worry about any of this nonsense and just try to have fun.
    MBear likes this.
  20. Barton The Mischievous

    I guess to get any response we are going to have to go into the twitterverse and ask if the PnP is going to be enforced on Ragefire guess ill go tweet
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