RoS T1 raids [Seal of Charassis]

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Blitter, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. kizant Augur

    You'd be a lot more helpful if you try and figure out what the main cause is. Is it an ability that isn't working or new spell that does less damage than the old one? Or like the hornscale blade issue maybe there's a bug in an EoK item causing it to do more than it was supposed to. In those cases you should probably figure out what old items are better and just keep using them.
    Maedhros likes this.
  2. Reval Augur

    If it is on a full burn, then it might be because the weapon procs currently are lower. Bloodlust adds a fair amount to the burn on a beastlord.
  3. Fian Augur

    Does the test dummy scale by level too? If the dummy is always your level then that might explain the dps difference. I can't see how using the same gear but attacking a mob 5 levels lower than you wouldn't be higher dps than attacking a white con mob.
  4. Millianna Augur

    I will take a look at it some more.
  5. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Of course, none of that has any direct relevance to this thread, but i want to take what you posted serious, so here i go:
    Back in my time, i underwent several splits and subsequently also several mergers.
    The "bad blood" i had pointed is a very important thing, if there is too many people of one resenting too many of the other.
    Otherwise, it is quite doable, but:
    A merger of two guilds that bring, say, 45 raiders each will of course result in a HUGE bench, bringing other problems with it. So when talking still "almost-intact" guilds that have a significant amount of numbers but a suboptimal roster, that is another point that has to very thoroughly thought through.
    From my point of view, this thread exists because there ARE guilds still actively working on their progression (as a single entity) but bringing just that much of a lack in some department or the other to the raids that they fail - most likely DPS, but that's for the other thread.
    Aside form these two points, i agree. a merger might be viable - both to progress in general and bypass this "dumb" restriction across expansions.
    (For DKPs can always be found a way of conversion, even if totally different earning/bidding systems are used, for example, but it's also been a major fear in my past for people and another reason to hesitate)
    I just do not think it's THAT easy for most of the guilds that are listed on the guild progression site but have not yet beaten EoK.
    In ANY case, it's a major undertaking, not to be taken lightly or in a spur of a moment.

    And i agree:
    I do not HAVE to LIKE somebody to raid with him. But it sure helps :)


    That's a numerical way of looking at things and that is, in such cases, not valid.
    People do not distribute and integrate that easily - we're talking in-game ties here that date back years and in some cases even a lot longer than a decade.
    Just like you cannot simply take the number of unemployed and open jobs and subtract one from the other to get your "true" unemployment number.
    Cliques exist, but tend not to be as large anymore than 8-10years ago.
    And at least the 4th guild on OUR server (the only listed one that has not beaten EoK yet) is NOT a "half guild". i think they're even "better" than a "2/3rds guild". If THEY would want to merge, it'd "have to" be with one of the 3 other guilds, resulting in

    Only one reason for not (being able to) doing this imo: Lockouts.
    If i were able to, i would long since have helped them on our off-raid days.
    Sadly though, my main is ofc not able to due to his lockout timers and other than my primary ALT (which is also called into our raids at times), my others are possible more a liability than actual help.
    That's the problem with any (capable) guest you might want on your raids...
    It boils down to me whether you want to raid as a guild OR an alliance (however you call or implement it). you HAVE to work that out, and make it mandatory for all (mains) involved.
    An "official" raid alliance seems to be the best mid-way if you have, like in your setting, two guilds that are in a similar situation.
    Again, not applicable for a guild like our 4th, as they are already doing open raids and allow guests (not for 1st wins from OUR outside point) as the other 3 have made it through and are farming EoK or most of it.
    So RoS will be totally unraidable for 1/4th or at least 1/5th of our server's total active raiders, simply by that Seal of Charasis requirement, for as long as it takes them to power though the multiple times to get flagged AFTER having spent additional time leveling up. That's in my eyes a pretty significant number. And i expect it to take the minimum 6weeks plus another two at least, more likely 4-6weeks to get it done. Again, a rather significant amount of time of being held back in an "old" expansion.

    Open raids are a nightmare.
    Even moreso when talking EoK T2+T3 with the flagging, let alone any flags that RoS requires.
    You get a lot of interest, especially if you were to open up current expansion's (as opposed to any past expansions which yield next to no interest) raids to the public, but also any number of under-geared and under-AAd people.
    From the open raids my guild has done last year (in TDS while TBM was current), you can do it if the bulk of your force is already flagged and geared and knows what to do. Not if any of these 3 is missing.
    So while a nice idea (on paper mostly), it's virtually impossible to implement this with any increase of likelihood to win an event
  6. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    This might be due to the upcoming patch, that's already on test, so most likely on beta (with it's daily patches) as well?
    Namely the reduction of Dichto duration?
    Also not the whole raid consists (hopefully) of Beastlords and other Hybrids.

    I am sure that
    a) the upcoming patch will immediately bring DPS on live servers down even more, hurting the wrong audience the most again and
    b) after all is said and done, level 110 and the new spells+abilities WILL enable many that are on the verge of winning NOW (before the upcoming nerf) to win THEN.
    The new max level and AAs won't do much for those that simply lack the numbers too much though.

    If a guild can do 1.7 or 1.9 million DPS NOW, so just under the about needed (approximately) 2mil+ i think RoS will help them - perhaps even when they're as low as 1.5mil now. Lower than that and i think they likely need to take a closer look at what Xnao posted for an "alternative", as sad as that'd be.
  7. Bigstomp Augur


    That's silly. If you aren't beating it you aren't locked out.
  8. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    *sigh*
    See, that's why i said "use specific examples" instead of going by how things look on paper.
    My statement above is only "silly" (and not even then really) when you have two guilds that fail at the same stage, or in different tiers.

    On our server though, we have a prime example for when it is NOT silly.
    You know.. 3 of 4 guilds beating ALL events and the 4th being stuck.. somewhere.

    I do not know about your guild, but on our server, basically ALL guilds have rules about raiding with other guilds.
    On mains for sure, and most if not all also on ALTs.
    So please... think before you post and call other people silly, mkay?
    It will only make YOU look bad if you don't.
  9. High Voltage Augur

    Being a "casual raiding" guild has its drawbacks - progressing slower than the "pro" guilds is the price we pay. Thats not a problem, so no solution needed.
  10. Bahdah Augur

    This thread still kicking...
    [IMG]
  11. Millianna Augur

    This was 100% correct. The difference in DPS weapon proc. DPS seems have increased within the normal spread. His HP total went up 40k from RoS raid gear.
  12. Reval Augur

    Cool. I just activate bloodlust on the last part of frenzy of spirit now (so that I don't lose weapon dps during bestial alignment), and when I do I bandolier higher dmg proc weapons. I might start using ferociousness during that time instead of savage rancor, haven't tested it enough yet though. Sort of waiting for things to feel more finalized before I go into that sort of test.

    Stuff like that can be annoying, but also great, because the more energy and thought you put into it, the better the outcome (I like that vs just gear that makes someone stronger personally).
  13. Smokezz Augur

  14. Blitter Elder


    Hi :)

    Look at Infinite Elysium, they beat Prince in Feb, and Queen in May. and then Vault just recently.
    Assuming they beat Prince and Queen every week (i'm counting 4 weeks to each month)
    Feb,Mar, April = 4 flags x 3 = 12 flags
    May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct = 8 flags x 5 = 40 flags
    Nov = 2 + 3 = 5 flags
    So a potential total of 57 flags.

    They only need 18 for Kar'Zok.

    Guilds at this sort of level don't have mandatory attendances. It takes 2-3 times the number of flags to be able to get enough people flagged to have a shot.

    Even when this guild does beat Kar'Zok+, they are still going to face another 6months flagging for RoS T1.
  15. skabe Elder

    Without airing this guilds dirty laundry ... there are reasons why they are where they are. Also if you look at the extended history of the guild going back 10+ years they are more or less where they always have been as far as progression goes. Oh there were years where they were far closer to having an expansion beat before next one was released. More often than not however they beat prior expansion after a new release.
    Their raid leader (Zunnoab) as well as some of the other officers should be nominated for sainthood considering all the issues they have faced and put up with over the years lol
    Bobsmith likes this.
  16. Blitter Elder

    Without doubt - i'm not knocking them at all. I just choose the guild from the progression site that has been doing T2 for some time and hasn't done T3 yet, to illustrate the problem with the flagging. There are plenty of guilds in that situation. 57 potential flags vs only 18 needed. This is the reality, when folks say "t3 is only 6 weeks of raid flags". Yeah for a guild with 99% attendance.

    The thing is - I'm sure most of their members are happy to progress at that speed. They are used to it. They are onto the last tier or close to it by the time the new expansion rolls around. They finish up - or not, and proceed onto the next one. Maybe they come back and finish up once they got a little new expansion gear/lvls.
    In every mid tier guild I've been in, it has taken at least 2-3 times the number of flags required to be able to flag everyone. And that gets exponentially worse with the more flags required.
    Arx #2 required 4 flags and it took us 8 wins b4 we could proceed with Vitio.

    Half of our raid force has less than a 50% attendance record.

    But thats just the way it is. It takes us longer to flag for the next tier, and I'm ok with that.

    But we are still paying customers. We had 70 people in our raid window last night, just because more folks showed up.

    What I'm not going to do is pay for a new expansion, only to have to have 6months+ of raid flagging in the old expansion b4 being able to even attempt any RoS T1 raids.
  17. Millianna Augur

    One item from the current expansion doesn’t make a parsable difference
  18. Thrillho Augur


    Depends on the item and the upgrade range. I think the EoK Raid H2H/1HB (Droga / Queen drops) combo to the 2HB (Atrebe drop) for monks is a 7-12% increase in auto-attack DPS (old parse from EoK beta). I can't recall the % increase from the TBM 2HB (Grummus drop) to EoK 2HB though.

    Clickies help as well for various stats. Even with the best, there's still a noticeable increase. The AC click from the range item is a sought after item for tanks for good reason.

    Single AA increases have large impacts as well. Again I'm biased towards monks - I had several focus AAs that increased the duration of my main burns. A single AA increased the burn time of Heel, my main burn disc. Secondary burn (Speed) was increased as well through a single AA. Within RoS, there is a new one that returns 0.3% of melee damage as endurance for 30 seconds +6000 instantly, which applies to the whole group. (For a modest 250k burn, that's 28,500 endurance back). Game changer.

    EQ has never been about the single. No single item was ever meant to be a game changer. No single person is meant to be able to do full content (groups of 6, raids of 54). No single spell. No single disc. No single ability. Add them all up though, and you have something formidable.
    Attickus likes this.
  19. Reval Augur

  20. sojero Augur

    Its not how big your sword is sir, but how you use it! That's a BIG screenshot though :) you must have zoomed in and used the good snapchat filters.

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