RoS T1 raids [Seal of Charassis]

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Blitter, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    I would agree if we were talking about the confines of one expansion.
    We are, however, talking about a condition spanning expansions.
    So i think the core of the issue is rather if it's a "healthy" decision overall - having basically only certain parts of the playerbase adversely affected and in a blocking way.

    I am with you there, although i cannot agree with the "unwillingness to put forth the effort" part.
    To ME, these people have put forth way MORE effort than all of us who have already beaten EoK. And for less rewards too. That they kept trying over the year should tell you too of their dedication and effort. Do not think that the "solutions" you refer to haven't been tried by many of them - this has been talked about above.

    Exactly. WithIN an expansion.
    Looking at other threads and beta boards i am not so sure if even the guilds you refer to will WANT to go back to EoK T3 to immunize people. Much less to actually flag them all over as is required of the guilds that haven't beaten EoK yet - for anOTHER expansion.
    The cross-expansion thing is actually the reason for the outcry, when faced with a year-long try to beat certain blocking events that have been - you have to admit - made harder over the year and even moreso with the recent patches.
    If you felt you were close to beating one of the blocking events and get that step closer, you are now seeing, not feeling, yourself thrown back even further. This causes frustration. Frustration causes things we do not want in the long run - guilds folding, people quitting or going on a break.
    I really wonder why anyone can even think that would be a good thing then.
    The people do not, as you put it, "*****, moan, complain, and demand for change" over nothing - it is an expression of that frustration. and pointing to just the level-upgrade and saying "all will be good" doesn't really cut it, even if that were going to be the case.
    It's a carrot dangling in front of an already more-dead-than-alive donkey, a straw they can grab.
    But the real CAUSE is elsewhere.

    That is the point of this thread!
    They CAN NOT "simply skip it and move on".
    How would you feel if you had graduated from highschool and just because you weren't able to earn a scolarship at Yale you find yourself also excluded from PennState or UTSA or Texas A&M but you know that you're above a Job with a name on your shirt?

    Noone asked for any free lunch - that's just an unbased and wrong statement certain people are making in an attempt to dismiss the discussion as a whole.
    That's what's boiling MY blood!

    And since they are given no choice, it CAN not "come down to choices".
    Except the choice to take it or leave it - and do we really, REALLY want even more people to leave?
    Rashod and Ghubuk like this.
  2. skabe Elder

    I say BS they got plenty of choices. Just because they don't like the options they are given doesn't equate to having none.
  3. Xnao Augur

    Plenty of choices indeed. The issue is refusal to make a choice coupled with fear of change.

    The Deadliest Duo
  4. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Plenty of choices, you say. ok.
    Even though it will make the discussion go off on a tangent yet again, let's list them please.
    Then we can go on discuss those "choices" and how valid they might be.

    I can almost see the replies you'll make, so just remember please, that we are talking people interested in (and quite capable of, but hitting some kind of "ceiling" put in their way) raiding but for some reason or the other not having "made" it yet to the very end.
    So please omit like "they can go on as groupers".
    Use EXISTING guild structures and recruitment possibilities to base your list of choices on please, not some far-fetched or idealized "model" you create just to promote that theory of yours like the "fat is bad, sugar is good" campaign did.
    Preferably an example of a server/guild/alliance you are familiar with.

    Btw, Skabe:
    The part you quoted above
    a) refers specifically to the requirement of a completed Seal of Charasis for RoS T1, the very point we are discussing here - nothing general.
    and b) has a sentence that follows it.
    So yes, there is a "choice" they have: take it or leave it.
    I'd like to see the "plenty" others that you apparently see, because to me that seems like a very binary thing right now.
  5. Reval Augur

    He's not gonna get in deep, because he knows the moment he sincerely goes beyond this base surface, he loses.

    Take recruiting a shaman for example. You could ask Xnao to recruit 3 good shaman for your guild that will stick around (hit epic responsibly, appropriate mgb's and buffs, keep group alive/splash heal a ton), and he's gonna look at that and go "man, I mean that MIGHT happen and it MIGHT not. I can't guarantee 3 good shaman, and plus that could take months even if it does happen." The moment he steps into there, he now goes from this invincible jerk that can just spout meaningless platitudes forever to a guy that is more than likely to immediately be on the losing side of this.

    Then maybe take coaching a guy that is not up to par - maybe it will work, maybe it won't. And sure what you put into it matters as far as the outcome, of course it does, but if you asked me to outright guarantee that I was going to be able to teach some unknown factor how to play a class that i know how to play then there's NO WAY I would accept. I'd try to help them, but guarantee it? Impossible to do. I've seen incredible learners and I've seen people that are all but unteachable.

    So if you can't guarantee new people that come in to be good, and you can't guarantee that the people that are already there can be coached in a reasonable manner to improve, then you look at this like an adult, and you realize that while things often do work out, this is a damn casino. Some people get screwed.

    And that's why Xnao is frozen. As he put it "The issue (for him) is refusal to make a choice coupled with fear of change."
  6. Xnao Augur

    The only argument against mergers I have seen in this thread is "bad blood." Do they want to progress as raiders or hold on to pettiness from the past? I have willingly raided with people I could not stand, in raids led by officers I despised. I can also be a little at times but have no fear of not being able to raid, sucessful guilds accomodate people. To me, the raiding is more important than the pettiness. If said person somehow committed unspeakable atrocities to you in real life, one of them can leave.

    This thread started out based around guilds that had to box on raids. Are you even a guild at that point? Do those "half guilds" opinion's carry as much weight as full guilds when they have half the people? The cliques in those guilds (don't pretend there aren't any) could each join another guild. Lose one "half guild" and bolster 3 or 4 struggling guilds. Eight less guilds have completed this expac than the previous. I imagine they are all "half guilds." Which equals 4 guilds who cannot complete the expansion before the new one.

    I have never been on a server with an alliance so I do not know of any structures. They do not seem like a good idea to me. I do think that a cooperative working agreement could be helpful though. Two guilds on one server cannot beat one event, why not work together one day a week to beat the event? Random on the loot or let each member have one piece for the duration of the working agreement. Once both guilds have enough flags to progress, terminate the agreement. Perhaps after a couple expansions of working together a merger or alliance develops.

    Could also open the raid up in general chat. Raids give currency so you do not need to reward these players. Who knows, one of the thousand "former hardcore raiders who no longer wants to raid" that post here every week is there and bored. Maybe an alt of a higher tiered guild. Maybe a longtime grouper heeds the call to arms. Some of these players might even want to app.
  7. Xnao Augur

    Ice your boner buddy, I was moving furniture and typing between. Also that is a long post for me, I am unable to type paragraph after paragraph that says absolutely nothing.

    In my entire time playing I have met two necros who I could not teach to be good enough for my standards. Out of 30-40 I have taught. You are perhaps not as good at teaching as empty victory proclamations.
    Maedhros likes this.
  8. Reval Augur

    It's alright everyone, he gets caddy when he gets drug a bit closer to reality, but as you can see from his previous post he's on the road back to his platitudes.

    Nice edit on the teacher bit, but wrong. If you took the people I've taught vs yours in terms of numbers or quality, you are a non factor. 40 people is laughable.

    But let me know when you wake up to reality here pal. You constantly avoid the harder truths when they come up so you can keep going. Drive into that snowdrift buddy, you'll save some gas, and the way you're driving isn't safe.
  9. Stymie Lorekeeper

    After watching the live broadcast of the up coming expansion I have no inclination of buying it. Look at Absor... He doesn't look excited about his work, and why should I as a customer feel it? We're talking about a darn near 20 year old game for crying out loud. I've been at my job now for 18 years and I still have a passion for all that I do. He may not like it, but he's in the entertainment industry. Just saying.

    I have a 105 mage on FV, but I haven't finished progression in most of EOK yet. Why would I spend any money on the new one beyond gaining the ability to advance to 110?
  10. Reval Augur

    I'm excited for the new expac b/c it seems really good in terms of the flow of things as it is progressing.

    I just don't want like 1/4 of the current raiding guilds to dissipate is all.
  11. Millianna Augur

    I said this a long time ago. You don’t need 110 to fish EoK. Why bother with RoS until EoK is finished.
  12. Cicelee Augur

    You don't need 110 to finish EOK. However it would appear that there is a segment of the player base that getting to 110 (among other things) would actually help them to finish EOK.

    Something that that segment of the player base wants to deny, not admit to, is embarrassed by, unwilling to accept, does not want to do, etc...

    And before anyone calls me "elite" or anything, I have a 105 monk that has yet to finish Lceanium progression. Who, after I do ROS progression on my magician, is going to be working on both EOK and ROS progression while levelling to 110. Where I am hoping that getting to 110 (among other things) will actually help the monk finish EOK. So while my magician might be considered "elite", my monk is far from "elite" and could use the assistance that ROK will give to finish EOK...
    Thrillho and Maedhros like this.
  13. Millianna Augur

    Hmmm a 105 bst full EoK raid gear does 15% more dps than a 110 full RoS raid gear bst on test. So either something broken on test or it appears your shooting yourself in the foot by getting 110 first.
  14. Fian Augur

    Main page on the expansion just had the following:

    There are nine raids in Ring of Scale set in three tiers that follow progression from the Empires of Kunark expansion. To access the first tier of raids, characters must have obtained the Seal of Charasis from the events in Kor-Sha. With the Seal they will battle the first tier of raids, which includes everything from giant succulents to a minor army of Kar'Zok. The second tier involves dealing with Venril and his followers deep in the bowels of the family tomb. Finally, in the third tier, characters will face the Ring of Scale in Veeshan's Peak and eventually battle the mighty Talendor as he takes refuge with Phara Dar.

    I am guessing their lawyers told them they had better let customers know that they won't be getting raiding in the next expansion.
  15. bigpapa Augur

    is there a " legal " way to cancel my 5 ROS pre-orders ?

    btw I logged into beta once ,did several toons level 110 but didn't had time to kill any mobs or do tasks yet there .
    I am a good player in a weaker guild that struggling with queen raid and what I like the most in EQ is raiding , but we won't be able until many months , when finally be able to kill queen and vault ( after several tries each ) we have few attempts to do kar zok t3 raid and got destroyed .

    yeah , being level 110 should help. but not 100% sure we will beat t3 raids.

    ps: btw we doing joint raids since a long time and know each others well , we don't have any who box .
    we got some very skilled players there but don't seem to be enough to progress .

    and yes all are using gina and in our guild , most are using gameparse to get players to improve their dps and healing
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Given how everything isn't tuned yet I am not sure that those numbers are valid. Also since you won't have RoS raid gear until you start beating the new expansion a better test would be to use your current gear or group gear with the new spells and AA.
    Sancus likes this.
  17. Tour Augur

    Or, you know, they just wanted to inform the players / customers of a game mechanic in the expan they were buying? I understand ours is a litigious society, but ratchet down the paranoia. Though I will admit it is funny to imagine a legal situation that required the suits to go into what is and is not a "raid", what a "flag " is. Exhibit A: a picture of a raid cactus.
    Bobsmith, Thrillho and Maedhros like this.
  18. Millianna Augur

    The numbers are 100% valid and both came from test. There is something not working properly on test or the new levels aren’t an upgrade.
  19. Reval Augur

    My bst on beta gained a little bit of dps at 110 vs 105. I used full RoS raid gear and the augs that I had on my original gear.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    First off I think you mean beta not test as none of this content is on test yet. Second off you miss the point that AA's are not yet complete and have not been tuned yet, spells and abilities have not yet been tuned and we don't know if the stats on gear are final as of right now. The problem you are having is that you are trying to test and make judgments based on things that are not finished yet and there is no reasonable way you can say that dps is going to be lower at 110 with new gear, spells, aa then it was at 105.
    Maedhros likes this.

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