Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Blitter, Oct 31, 2017.
Nah, level 110. Higher level spells. More DPS. More AA. Those are all useless!
Most mid tier guilds lack enough players with sufficient AAs. Add another 6 billion AAs to almost 4 billion they currently need and you have impossible scenario. RoS group gear isn't going to be better than EoK raid gear so no boost from that. Level 110 will help, but it will not overcome the AA deficit.
... so, things should just be handed to said people. Right? LOL. And we're back on another Participation Trophy thread.
The past has shown us why:
So that Devs have more time to actually finish events that should have been done at release but never are.
There is ALWAYS some "broken" events that blocks progression.
Sometimes the time they buy with requiring repeats is enough - sometimes not.
If they'd unlock everything at the start, guilds would start as far "up" as they can - going "down" only as they repeatedly fail in an effort to gear up.
I feel with you.
Ideally a guild has a constant stream of apps, and since those tend to come from "lower" guilds or even the grouping ranks the "required" progression-work never ends.
At expansion release though, a more or less easy solution is to put aside a raid day or two per week to get it done.
As long as the solo tasks are kept to a reasonable number, doing progression through TAs can be a speedy alternative.
The sad thing though imo is that people doing this are missing so much of the "finer humor" the Dev's have put in.
Come on... since when is flagging a challenge for guys of your type?
Of course you can not make "everyone happy".
But you can try to make more people happy...
Every day, step by step, one by one.
Or, in EQ's case: expansion by expansion by (for example) NOT repeating of the past.
And i did not necessarily target you personally with the "sad people" statement,
But rather those people that - as i read your post - will like that others are held up "even more" by the need to flag their force for the new expansion.
Because that cements an already existing distance that we see between the 22registered guilds that have beaten the expansion and the rest (16 or so, when going by TBM numbers).
Whether you are one of them i cannot tell, but some are making it pretty obvious that they are.
If you think the boost to level 110 with new AAs and spells isn't going to help you with EoK raids then you're beyond hope at this point.
Talk about lacking reading comprehension...
The "no reason to do previous expansion" was gear-related and especially targeted at TBM to EoK.
Other than in both theads EoK is involved, that has not even a tangent to what's being discussed in this thread.
Congrats to fully hit the wood instead of the nail in a manner that would make Trump proud!
To comment like and on this, it's way too early imo.
The fear is there, but i think the need for that fear is not.
In the past, they've added ample amounts of flags, even though that kind of changed in EoK itself.
Iirc TBM chests held a full backflag for a single character for that tier.
If they do something similar in RoS for EoK T3 flags, the statement you made is moot.
^Talk about personal attacks when someone doesn't agree with your line of logic and bringing politics into a video game forum. Casuals wanted incentive to do previous raid content and they got it. More incentive than ever before if you want to see RoS raids, congrats.
"most mid-tier guilds"... "sufficient AAs"...
I dare to say "no" to both of these claims.
And in extension of course to your "fail" then too.
The level helps, the new spells will help - tremendously.
You speak of an AA deficit.
Really, unless your players only log on for raid nights, there shouldn't be any AA-deficit.
I have "wasted" lots of time helping people doing their progression etc instead of spending my time in higher-XP areas - and i still was maxed months ago.
(coming out of TBM as not quite maxed due to many years of absence too).
And i have maxed another char in that time too, and gained many an AA for 4 more on the same account.
While that statement is half-true - levels do not overcome a (significant!) AA-deficit - there should not really BE any AA-deficit in the first place.
Repeating something that's wrong doesn't make it any more true you know.
I know that comprehending this is a challenge for some, i see it in the news almost every day.
Linking two things where no link is - that's a sign of a populist or troll, depending on which "forum" we are at the time.
Either way, it earns an ignore - sorry.
Just because you feel there is no link or more specifically don't like the link the Developers decided to create, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Writing 10 page novellas and complaining that folks lack reading comprehension won't change that also FYI. Yes, please ignore me then as you've literally quoted me multiple times on every single thread I've posted on recently.
There are some serious flaws with requiring completion of most prior raids before you can do current raids:
1. Essence of the Dragon is the biggest barrier to mid tier guilds ever completing EOK raids. I would say in my mid tier guild (blocked at Queen) less than half of our raiders have completed the progression. There are plenty of people who mainly log on to raid, and don't do much group content. While you can argue that it shouldn't be that way, it is a fact of life.
2. This expansion releases all of the new level 110 spells. By putting EOK completion before you can even access the spells, you are relegating the raid benefits to an even smaller group of customers
3. Normally group gear in new expansion is close to on par with raid gear in prior expansion. I assume the same is true for this expansion too. So DBC expects current mid tier raiders to spend at a minimum half a year (probably all expansion) raiding content for little gain? People are more likely to leave with their feet and their subscription.
Let's take Tunare server as an example. There is one guild that has beaten all EOK raids. There is another guild blocked at queen, along with 2 public raid forces that are also blocked at Queen. There was a 3rd raid force that disolved mid year because they could never beat any of the EOK raids.
I was hoping that they would make some raids easier for this expansion (more like Hate and Fear). Some clear raids where the actual raid mob was doable by a weaker raid force, so at least the weaker raid forces would have some access to new raid content. Based on what I am hearing, it sounds like only one guild on the server will be able to enjoy raiding in new expansion. Isn't it obvious what is going to happen? Sorry DBC, but this is a really BAD idea.
Guys of my type...... not going to touch that one.
Flagging is always a challenge, you get flags from beating the raids which are OBVIOUSLY a challenge if so many who think they should have beat eok haven't. Absor has said that Ros is by design harder than eok. So again yes i look forward to the challenge"s" in this expansion. If your scope of what you think is a challenge is just the flags, may I recommend you do more beta, it is all tough.
To anyone who feels they could be better in a different guild, go see what your options are, I along with many others didn't quite realize the potential of our toons till grouping/raiding with other ppl who want to give 110%
1. It is certainly not Daybreak or the rest of the communities fault that your guild doesnt want to complete Essence of the Dragon.
2. Whats wrong with getting Rank 1 or Rank 2 of the new 105+ spells? Yes, Rank 3s are out of reach until you beat ROS raids, as it should be.
3. Guilds that have have not completed EOK T2 by now are NOT mid-tier guilds. You can see the stats of the group gear on BETA and decide how good it is for yourself.
4? Guilds dissolve. Tunare server guilds are struggling, but there are other servers that have had several guilds beat EOK. Seems more of an issue with the guilds on certain servers needing new leadership or taking advantage of the new recruits that should be available after a guild collapses. Its harsh but guilds that are successful are taking advantage of the new recruitment options when a guild struggles. Its always been that way.
5? You are in the minority if you want more raids like Hate and Fear, but I do respect your opinion on that. There are not those type of raids available in ROS in reality though, so your guilds focus should be on leveling up to 110 and reapplying your new player strength with rank 2 105+ spells towards beating EOK.
I offered help and advice to guilds that needed it, but noone from Tunare has reached out. So I ask, how badly do you want to beat content?
It's going to be hard to motivate people to log in to complete EoK blockers when the RoS group gear is only a small way off the EoK raid gear.
3 guilds have beaten Kar'Zok in the last 7months.
22 guilds have beaten Kar'Zok.
38 guilds have beaten T1 EoK.
So Over 42% of the raiding population are not going to be able to do ANY raids in RoS.
Why would daybreak think that is a good way to treat their customers?
They said ros t1 going yea be way harder ? So they would die anyway? Maybe remember ve t3 requirement so they can die more
Of course a higher level cap is going to make things harder, but if the goal is that a level 110 char in RoS is going to have a harder time raiding than a level 105 char in EOK, then I need to question the thinking of the devs. DBC is in the position of making money. Do they really think that making it harder to raid is going to increase their customer base? To take the example of Tunare, do you think restricting raid content to 25% of current raiders is the smart move?
There is nothing special about making things hard. Gates of Discord was a hard expansion. Most hated it. The end result was they had to try and make things easier in later expansions because they made things too hard in Gates. In fact, hard games are an indication of inexperienced developers. I remember my brother-in-law who was working on a Master's degree in video game development. He was asked to review the games made by others in the school. They were uniformly hard, so much so that there wasn't reason to actually play the game. The real point of a video game is to be fun. Sure you want challenge, but in the end you want a majority of your customers to be winners.
In response to those that are saying that it isn't that hard, and their guilds have beaten the content and join theirs. Why do you care? You already beat EOK T3; the flagging won't be an issue. If you want a challenge, that is what RoS T3 is for. No one complains if the elite raiders struggle on T3, that is what it is for to give you something to chew on that will last till the next expansion. But T1/T2 is for the middle tier guilds. Developers need to make sure there is something for all types of players, not just the elite raiders. Currently, it is sounding like this expansion was designed only for the elite guilds. Which scares me, because DBC can't afford to scare off any of its customers.
42% of the raid population will eventually be able to raid ROS, provided they can clear EOK T3 for six straight weeks. Don't make it sound like they are never ever going to be able to raid ROS.
I still feel that instead of asking guilds to get 18 seals, just kill T3 and get the check mark (if there is one, I forgot) and then you can do ROS. Six weeks and 18 seals is a long time.
If they made it any easier, raids would be nothing more than standing in one place, turning on auto-attack/mashing a single multibind and getting loot. And I bet some of the lower tier guilds would still manage to fail.
Many games are designed to be played, beaten and disposed. They want people to have the satisfaction of beating it so that they buy another title. This game is designed to keep people playing and subscribing all year. Without any resemblance of challenge, no one would stick around unless there was 100x more content to keep people occupied. And look at what they think is "content". How many people really want to spend a year putting items in a tradeskill container and clicking the combine button?
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