RoS T1 raids [Seal of Charassis]

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Blitter, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Yinla Augur

    Devs seem to have had a complete turnaround on their thinking for this expansion than on previous expansion. From what I have seen RoS zones are too hard to group at level 105, with the zones aimed at being level 110 or close to level 110. So much for previous thoughts that levelling should be done in the new expansion zones (though I've not seen any exp nerfs for pervious expansions this time round)

    As far as I can remember other than epics and quest upgrades (Shawl etc) there has never been any need for previous expansion items to create gear in the newest expansion. I really dislike this idea, players shouldn't be forced to go back and do previous expansions to get current gear at least not without an alternative.

    The same goes for raids, while many of us suspected Seal of Charasis would be needed to raid in ROS if the first raids are in Overthere and Skyfire, why is it called Seal of Charasis? It would make more sense to need it to raid Charasis, but not needed for Overthere or Skyfire and have these zones also give seals for Charasis to help players who are behind to catch up.

    IF things stay as they are I would hope that they would change it to a full Seal granted with each EOK T3 win from ROS launch and a full Charasis backflag granted after completing a ROS raid.
  2. Bobsmith Augur

    Really it was a generalized statement to the expansion, state of the game, and everything in a whole. Maybe if I said "you can't make everyone happy all the time" would that have been better? As far as the group gear platform and needing the old piece, if that is the case so be it, while it doesn't effect my main I do box and it effects all of those toons. Of those toons none have all the eok prog done, none are in a full set of eok t2 gear, some have the HH Seb gear, but if and when I want to upgrade them I will. I am in one of those guilds that has completed eokt3 and has tons of flags rotting in my bag so yes I'm good with the flagging the way it is. Instead of boxing or moloing the entire expansion prog I will have to find a group and do it with other folks, GASP playing with others in an mmo what a concept. To assume that because I have an opinion that is different from yours and say that makes me a sad not quite.

    Anyway I'll say it again you can't make everyone happy all the time. If you want a participation trophy play Minecraft, WoW or another cookie cutter junk game. I do personally like the challenge ahead of us.
    Cicelee likes this.
  3. Fanra Augur

    I think the real question is: Why require flagging at all?

    Each tier is supposed to be harder than the one below it. Therefore, if you can't beat the tier below, then you wouldn't be able to beat the tier.

    That calls in the question of why have flagging in the game, both for raid tiers and for any content.

    Why can't I request a raid without having to do group progression first?

    It seems to come down to the idea that the Devs want you to have to go through the content they created. In addition, the flagging becomes a 'reward' for completing content.

    I'm going to guess the reason has to do with the beliefs that if you force people to go through content to get a 'reward' that unlocks more content that they are more satisfied with your game.

    There will always be those that go through the 'flagging' in hours or days and then move to the end game content, so it is barely a speed bump to them. Most players, however, have to struggle and spend weeks or months flagging.

    For example, tier 3 raids of EoK requires every raid member complete most of the EoK progression, or die in the raid. When I posted about this, most of the replies from posters here were in the order of, "It's easy, it takes a few days and you are just lazy and want an Easy button". My experiences with doing it myself and having to hand-hold my guild members through it, show it is much much harder for players that don't eat, breathe, and drink EQ.

    My guild still has many members without group EoK progression, and we are currently trying to win the Queen. So, I'm still having to go around and ask who needs it, and try to arrange for them to get online at the same time as people who can help them, and then it will take us many days to get them through it.

    Right now, flagging is the way EQ is designed. I find it annoying. I prefer to have a wide-open game world where the only limits are how good you are at beating the current mob / raid. Daybreak disagrees.

    Which is better? I don't know. Maybe somewhere we can find out Daybreak's philosophy behind why they require flagging. Locked doors, with the changes removing the 'illusion trick' are a similar question.
    Dewhead likes this.
  4. Tevik Augur

    I don't really have a problem with the main bulk of the raids being locked behind EoK flags, but I do feel like if you make the decision to use that design, you need to add some sort of "bridge-content" raids like Corrupted Temple of Veeshan. However, this would probably require a second tier of gear (armor itemization for this stuff should probably be in between EoK and the end-tier RoS gear), and this game doesn't have the staff to handle that level of design anymore, since we haven't seen it since...RoF, 5 years ago.
  5. Bobsmith Augur

    Eq has had flagging for years. Old zones were keyed, raids had prereqs, etc. There is an argument that it has gotten harder or more in depth over those years. So what, almost every game mmo or single player ever is set up the same way. You can't start on the end game and be expected to handle everything. The game is built in a way that you benefit most from doing progression and tasks to build your toon up to be able to perform well in the endgame. As for the people either unwilling or unable to complete progression that is available to all players, that is an individual issue not a game or dev issue. Take the shawl for example, it isn't game changing but it helps and that was how many years ago? If you main a toon and there are things that would help your toon be better and make your experience more enjoyable why wouldn't you do it? As for the eat breathe drink we comment, this is a cop out. There are plenty of ppl who work 60hr weeks and have a family life and still find a few hours here and there to play the game and even they get through the progression. 2cp
  6. svann Augur

    So did they get us to pay twice for the eok expansion? Is this really all one expac that got divided in half?
    Lily likes this.
  7. Thrillho Augur

    Ohh this is quickly going to turn into another DPS Check thread. Why do we have this discussion going here anyway? It's not the beta forums where this would get the most attention out of those who actually have the power to do something about it, and, more importantly, it's already being discussed there.
    Jhenna_BB likes this.
  8. bbanz Elder

    Just when I thought we were done doing EoK raids... ugh... Gearing up recruits in EoK just so that they can wear RoS visibles. Seriously...
  9. Jhenna_BB Augur

    Thrillho likes this.
  10. Bobsmith Augur

    Agreed but more than likely the op doesn't have beta and can't post in those forums, other than that no idea.
  11. Ratbo Peep Augur

    I was gonna say that - but you beat me to it.
  12. jeskola Augur

    Even if dbg acquiesced on this, it would only lead to more crying... "Well my guild has even worse attendance issues and have to 5 or 6 box, can you tune the raids for us too?!?!"... Maybe your guild that has everyone 3-boxing and cannot beat raids needs to merge or disband, or accept your power and place and deal with it.
    Warpeace likes this.
  13. Millianna Augur

    Just look at it this way - if there isn't going be a workaround for the seal, DBG has just legitimized that thread.
  14. Seldom Augur

    There was a recent DPS thread in which casuals were complaining about there being no reason to do previous expansion content anymore. Developers heard their complaints and took care of that for RoS. Plenty of incentive to do EoK raids during RoS, especially if you're so behind you don't have T3 on farm. Congrats
  15. Gnomereaper Augur

    Rather just remove all flagging components from the game, if people want to try the encounter they can. It's trite annoying to want to do a raid from years ago, and you need to find someone with the right quests to get the raid for you. I see it in general from time to time for people who like to retro raid.

    Flagging itself destroys a portion of the problem with current raid design. Linear game play without the capacity to choose to go "left or right" like you could with Vex Thall. Or how you could start in ToV going either the giant route or the dragon route between WtoV Vs. HoT then everyone converged onto NtoV and ST.

    While the group center of the game is the core. Raiding itself should be based on good scripts and a storyline certainly. However, having nonlinear raids where all raids are open from day one would present options and greater freedom to the individual players.

    Equally, there's also the problem with "not enough raid content" from new expansions. While I'm not a proponent of having Corrupted Temple of Veeshan type raids. However, raid zones with a combination of cleaver scripts and old school designed raids within an instance would be a great touch. By dropping the development time for key quests and shifting towards straight content design with basic flagging requirements relative to keyed zones. The game would be far more streamlined, but also allowing for more diversity in raid design and raids in general.

    Complex raids are great. Simplicity is too. Keying, Everquest complexity wise, is just a waste of resources, both for consumers and producers of the game.

    Why I hate keys:

    1. Takes away production time away from essential content that is replayable (raids)

    2. Splits up player base within guilds
    -Go on vacation? guess what you're behind
    -Real life, need to take a few months off. Come back, welcome you're behind and might sit out on raids for no good purpose

    3. Takes productivity time early on in expansion away from exploration and sends it through a narrow key hole

    4. Prefer sandbox game design.
  16. segap Augur

    And doing EoK raids just so alts can use RoS rots or else have even more people not log on over the summer when there's nothing useful for them to get/do.
  17. wingz-83 Augur

    If I'm understanding this correctly, the SoC will be required to do T1 of the new expansion.

    Good luck on flagging / recruiting 4+ months into the expansion. Guilds will be stuck endlessly going back and doing the below: unless there's a click mechanic like VoA. I know you can 85 in but still.

    12 wins in T1 (Di`Zok Royal Seal) flagged you for T2.
    18 wins in T2 (Seal of the Kar`Zok) flagged you for T3.
    18 wins in T3 (Seal of Charasis) flagged you for ?

    Seems like a chore to do all that to flag 1 person to do current content once this new expansion has been in place for awhile.

    Just kill mid tier guilds now and be done with it.
  18. Blitter Elder

    I've been happy with the mostly 3, and recently up to 5 raids in EoK we have beate for content/fun.

    Daybreak, I think is in business. Currently there is no point in me buying RoS until my guild beats Kar'Zok.

    I don't mind not finishing EoK raids or finishing RoS raids, just like my guild has never finished RoF or other expansions. I just want something new to raid for the next year.
    They are not locking group RoS progression behind finishing EoK progression are they?

    Whether my guild sucks or have too few real players or whatever is irrelevant. I'm fine with not purchasing RoS until my guild beats EoK. It just doesn't make much sense from a business point of view to alienate your customers like that to me.
  19. Millianna Augur

    No reason to purchase RoS if you are mid tier raid guild.
  20. Jumbur Augur

    Disclaimer: I havent been on beta.

    But there are some reasons to puchase RoS:
    You can still do the group game in RoS even if you guild can't beat the raids.
    You get to level 110 and get new AA's, this power-jump might help your guild in beating the rest of the EoK-raids.
    You can do some of the new tradeskill-stuff.
    There is probably some loot in RoS worth getting, even as a mid-tier raider(augs maybe?).

    Unless you deliberately want to avoid out-leveling the raids before you have beaten them(want to stay in "era" as a progression guild), then I can't see many reasons to hold back.
    Nicemen likes this.

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