RoS T1 raids [Seal of Charassis]

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Blitter, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Maedhros High King

    I "think" youre referring to me here?
    Don't be shy little fella, you can refer to me by name, I am always happy to have a fan.
    I do very much appreciate that you have been following my posts with interest, and I am sure you will be delighted to know that I intend to continue posting for your further enjoyment.

    You are not really making much sense though, my advice is to proofread your posts before you make them.

    It seems like in this post that I quoted, you are first complaining that you do not have access to some of the visible loot that drops from T3 EOK, and then you go into some nonsensical rant about "elite players" stealing your loot to sell on FV? Paranoid much?
    If your guild is struggling to beat EOK, but your'e too proud to ask the raiding community on your server for help, why are you whining like a baby about the raids being to hard, and further whining that you wont have access to Ring of Scale raids? What happened to your pride champ?

    As I have pointed out to some other folks on various threads like this, you are absolutely not a mid-tier guild if you have not even beaten the first raid in T3 EOK when we are just a few weeks away from Ring of Scale raids. You are in a low-tier guild and the sooner your wrap your mind around that the better. If your guild cannot beat the Kar`Zok, you will get stomped by Ring of Scale raids.

    You and your guild are offered a golden opportunity with ROS to level to 110 in the group game, snag some new spells and gear for your face, waist, finger and possibly shield slots that are certainly going to be better than whatever you have in those slots now aside from the chase loots from EOK.

    You will then be able to re-apply yourself with newfound enthusiasm to EOK raids and power through it.

    Don't worry sport, the High King is here to help. I will be posting strats for Atrebe's Vault, and the EOK T3 raids this coming week.
    Seldom and Tour like this.
  2. Cicelee Augur

    After the DPS Check thread and now this one I think we can all agree on the following-

    There are two groups of players. The first group wants raid challenges, plays for raids and min/max their toons, wants things hard, plays the game "hardcore" per se, and maximizes their time in game with other similar minded players and are successful as a result.

    The second group is more "casual", wants a challenge but not too much of one, wants to experience what the first group does but does not have the time or desire or energy to go full "hardcore", and overall doesn't have the gear/stats/AA that the first group has.

    Both groups have facts and opinions that they feel is right. Both groups want different things in game, which simply cannot be obtained at this stage of the game. The bottom line is this...

    Developers create the game. They make the rules. It is their game. We can provide feedback to them, but ultimately they will decide what and how they want the game to be. They have stated that Seal of Charasis is required for ROS. It is up to us now, as players, to adapt and accept. Those who do will find future success, regardless of what group you are in. Those that do not will either continue to complain and bring negativity to others with a poor demeanor, or leave.

    Not everyone can be "elite". Not everyone can have every single thing in the game. Enjoy the game for what it gives you, and when you no longer get enjoyment then it is time to walk away...
    Thrillho and Maedhros like this.
  3. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    Yes, which was sort of my point. Those tools were already in the game. Are there new, upgraded versions to them in RoS? I haven't seen any yet, and don't expect them either. Basically, increased stats and combat skill checks from RoS' levels and gear will help survivability a small amount when attempting EoK T3, but it still comes down to using the tools that were made available back in EoK. The new levels aren't going to make much of a difference when dealing with that aura.
    Blitter likes this.
  4. dwish Augur

    Tanks will still be much more effective, as 5 levels (and all the increased defense sklll caps) + new AAs and discs are a fairly large power boost when it comes to mitigation, with regards to tanking previous expansion content. DPS still won't be able to crit, so their DPS increase might be a bit more negligible, but again, even DPS surviveability should increase quite a bit with more mitigation skill cap increases and hp boosts. Kor'sha might be a bit more muted then some raids when it comes to level increase power gain, but there will still be a decent power gain raid-wide even on this raid once everyone is 110 with the new AA.
  5. Blitter Elder

    So why doesn't the RoS group progression require EoK group progression completion?
    Ratbo Peep likes this.
  6. Millianna Augur

    What's the point of purchasing new content, if you don't get to consume any of it? Just wait until next year...
  7. Khat_Nip Meow

    Waiting until next year would put people more vastly behind then they are now and they'd surely be here to complain about it.
    What's the point of purchasing it? Oh I don't know, maybe a 5 level increase, new gear/AAs/Spells/Abilities, and new zones. C'mon, really?
    Metanis likes this.
  8. Reval Augur

    Pretty dark.


    I'm not here to give the guys who can't do these raids a "time to walk away", that seems a bit steep. What every single person wants is something that is challenging, but possible for them. And I've had scenarios that I thought may be impossible that I later on succeeded in and it felt good to do it. But those were like a week to two weeks. Not a year. If it's a year, then the person most likely is not going to solve the challenge, whatever it is.

    The devs can do better or worse in the future. I think the whole "it's up to the devs and we don't matter" view is a bit stale. Let these guys voice their concerns in a way that is productive. Frankly the suggestion about dps checks is a good one. They only affect lower end guilds. No high end guild is going to lose to these checks, and if they are losing then they've lost high end guild status. All the checks serve to do is to keep the underdogs down meaninglessly, and frustrate them.

    Your walk away answer doesn't solve the problem. Once those guys have walked away, then what? You just lost people that you could have kept, and I bet a lot of them were good folks.

    Make challenges for guilds that want more challenges. Designing them for guilds that are already overly challenged by the current content is wasteful in every sense of the word.

    To the people struggling with the content, try the new expac, see if it gives you the push you need, and hopefully things will be a bit better. I'm rooting for you.

    To the people looking down their noses at these guys, lighten up. If you can't find a way that their suggestions actually hurt the game for you, then let them enjoy the game. More people playing the game is always going to be better than fewer people playing the game.
    Zhaunil_AB likes this.
  9. Khat_Nip Meow


    Where do they set that bar? Certainly not the lowest common denominator but no matter where you place it above that there will be complainers. Always.
    Why people can't simply accept the fact that not everything in game is accessible under their own terms is boggling.
    Metanis and Cicelee like this.
  10. Millianna Augur

    There is nothing challenging about artificial clock blocks. I'm ok with dps checks, but this is a whole new level of stupid.
    Ratbo Peep likes this.
  11. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    You can save us the sarcasm that followed the quoted part.
    Of course they will go back for the Hero's - in time.
    If they do not have OoW trials or DoN progression, they can do it solo in their off-hours at their own pace - and typically do.

    But what Yinla was referring to is the "now" - i.e. when the app joins the guild and is supposed to trial.
    In the then-current content.
    If there is no "quick" way to get an essence1 equivalent in RoS, then that means that "the guild" has to bench that app that they'd like to trial until he's done EoK progression while RoS is current.
    According to the news from the beta so far, he will also be severely limited on where he travels to/XPs in with guildies until that is done.
    While MPG trial AAs and DoN progression rewards are nice, they are not REQUIRED to raid any current content.
    But from what we have heard so far, Essence1 - and so atm EoK progression - WILL be required.

    Now, yes EoK progression doesn't take LONG if you're focused.
    But 2 "normal" days for Lceanium and Scorched partisans is not unrealistic.
    Personally i take it easy from then on and do one zone per day - but that can be streamlined too, especially with help for multiple TAs.
    Still, let's say it'll be around 4days (evenings really, we're talking working people here) for the EoK progression then.
    Together with 5raid days (during progression), that's 2weeks - usually half the normal trial time, during which the trialee will have to be benched.

    That's the point/problem i read in Yinla's post.
  12. Bigstomp Augur

    You could say it's required to have it done before you can start your app period.

    (I'm on the side of the expansions should be standalone, but the same issue existed in EoK - needed it done)
  13. skabe Elder

    This whole arguement of RoS tier 1 dropping flags is moot. Guilds that can't beat Queen or Vault are probably not going to beat the dps checks in Tier 1 RoS. The first event Cactictii in Overthere has potential to overwhelm a guild with more adds than either of those events and possibly far worse AE more often.
    Guilds that are "family style", "low or mid-tier", may just find themselves where they have been throughout the history of EQ until recently. Doing raid content designed for 5 levels below current max level. Or in other words part of an expansion to a full expansion (or two) behind current content. That is what enabled them to win .... having the levels, spells, AAs etc and in some cases gear that allowed them to overpower content in spite of the shortcomings of some of the guild's members.
    If you find yourself loosing people because the content you are raiding doesn't drop loot that they want then just say good riddance to those individuals. Their motives for raiding are childish, self centered, egotistical .... not the kind of folks you want to build a guild around. Yes, every guild has a few like that. In 18 years of playing this game those are the people that usually are the first ones to ask for help and the last ones to offer any. They are the drama queens of the guild.
  14. Ghubuk Augur



    Except that if enough decide to call it quits, it can start a nasty spiral gamewide of losing players. That doesn't help anyone. Just my opinion, but I suspect that is why the last few expansions started having at least 1 or 2 raids that were feasible for "low or mid-tier", "family style" guilds.
  15. bigpapa Augur

    I pre-ordered for 5 accounts , ( I got about 10 level 105 toons there ).

    only 3 have completed methods of sarnak destruction and didn t want more to get that ach.

    is that mean the toons ( alts ) I was playing over the years will be useless in ROS ?
    if so I will just cancel 2 of them since I don't want to be forced to do progression in EOK for them.
  16. Bigstomp Augur

    No. Just some zones (just like korsha lab) will be more challenging
  17. Reval Augur


    I think more likely people just want some things in terms of raids to be accessible. Sort of a staircase design instead of one huge step up, and then a slope downwards. I mean let's not kid ourselves at all on this. First off, blockers make things much easier. Much, much easier. You win, and then it slopes down from a point that is arbitrarily much higher. I really like the idea of not being able to crit, that poses an interesting challenge, but at the same time the way that this is implemented probably locks a few guilds out. Also, often the beginning raid or two of an expansion is easier than the last few raids of the previous expansion. That just happens. A lot. Finally, if it's a composition thing, maybe a guild has a composition that struggles on some event in the old expac, but would do great on the first event or two or three of this expac if given the opportunity. There's every reason to let them have a shot at it, and no realistic reason not to. Oh no, they might fail? It sounds like they're strong enough to fail an event and not throw in the towel based on that they're still trying under these bad conditions.

    Instead of viewing them as "complainers", put yourself in their shoes. Their situation is much less optimal than yours. If they have a stair that they can climb, they'll climb it and get better. If the step gets too high for them to feasibly climb it, then they won't. I would say that if I was a developer, I would try to design a staircase with high stairs where they are desirable, and shorter steps where they are desirable. But that great and simple concept is blown out of the water when you realize that all these dps checks are doing is making high stairs for people that need short stairs, and doing literally 100% absolutely nothing for people that want that high step to climb and take pride of. It's like if you had a gym in an area where people really needed to get in shape, but the entryway to the gym was so hard to reach that the people that really needed a gym couldn't jump high enough to climb up and gain entrance.

    I personally like skill more than loot. Still, loot from raids and achievements from winning raids are definitely the carrot that keeps people going which allows them to obtain that skill. But that carrot is meaningless if you leave these guys without a road to go down to reach the carrot. That's what you are more than at risk of doing here. I would like to see the weaker players have some path through to experience a bit more of the content. Give them enough steps that they can keep raiding in a reasonable capacity, and hopefully more and more of them will "git gud" as they have a bit more time raiding. There's no harm in letting them try. Let me know when you can find actual harm in letting them try outside of "oh no but they might lose". These guys are no strangers to difficulty, and given their actual track record of trying when they don't win, I'm sure they can take a loss with better character than most. You have people on your side of this literally saying they should quit if they can't win, and you're pulling some sudden concern about how they might lose an event? This is ridiculous.

    Also, in the past expansions people bring up where they couldn't raid the whole content, they often could raid *SOMETHING* in that expansion. I think that's the thing you're missing here. Like in RoF maybe they didn't beat the expac, but there were RAIDS that they could DO. Is this registering here? If you're locking them out of the first thing in the expac, that's a departure from the norm to say the least. Even VoA, if you didn't beat it, you still raided it, and you probably did argath, valley, beasts domain, and maybe you didn't hit sepulcher. You were still included in the expansion. You paid for content, and you at least got to raid. If people are getting off on where "the bar" is set because it hurts others, I'd argue they are bad for the game. They aren't arguing for the bar to be set where it is for any beneficial purpose. When did this become keeping up with the joneses quest? I'm glad people play for fun still. Literally no real reason to lock them out in this way. I hope they can improve and pass the bar as it is, but this just seems dumb to do. Give them a reasonable path forward, and a breath of fresh air.

    [IMG]
    Blitter and Ghubuk like this.
  18. Intenso Augur

    How come everyone didn't quit during god when it was impossible to complete it in era?
  19. Intenso Augur

    Without level increase no one could finish tacvi
  20. Fian Augur


    Well said. The only thing I would add, is I see a lot of people saying that these mid tier guilds that could complete some EOK raids, but not all, won't be able to handle RoS T1. If that is the case, then RoS T1 needs to be tuned down. RoS T1 raided with 110 char should be equal to EOK T1 raided with 105 char. DBC should not be making raiding harder where even fewer people are capable of completing raids. If elite Guilds need more challenge, make RoS T3 as hard as you want so that elite guilds are more busy. Mid Tier guilds don't expect to complete all raids in expansion, they do expect to be able to complete some of them.
    Gialana and Ghubuk like this.